Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 218746 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#73135 Jan 30, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Universal Intelligence is a term used by some to describe what they see as organization, or order of the universe. It has been described as "the intrinsic tendency for things to self-organize and co-evolve into ever more complex, intricately interwoven and mutually compatible forms."
Interesting. Sounds exactly like abiogenesis.
Cybele wrote:
There is math in everything. That's the universal language and the universal intelligence of everything!It's simple matrix.
What?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#73136 Jan 30, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>You still don't understand that the earth was purposefully assembled by the Creator and his word said water was involved in the very beginning.
Then he was wrong.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73137 Jan 30, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
There are a number of Scripture passages that identify the flood waters with the present-day seas (Amos 9:6 and Job 38:8-11 note “waves”). If the waters are still here, why are the highest mountains not still covered with water, as they were in Noah's day? Psalm 104 suggests an answer. After the waters covered the mountains (verse 6), God rebuked them and they fled (verse 7); the mountains rose, the valleys sank down (verse 8) and God set a boundary so that they will never again cover the earth (verse 9)[1]. They are the same waters!
Isaiah gives this same statement that the waters of Noah would never again cover the earth (Isaiah 54:9). Clearly, what the Bible is telling us is that God acted to alter the earth's topography. New continental landmasses bearing new mountain chains of folded rock strata were uplifted from below the globe-encircling waters that had eroded and leveled the pre-Flood topography, while large deep ocean basin were formed to receive and accommodate the Flood waters that then drained off the emerging continents.
That is why the oceans are so deep, and why there are folded mountain ranges. Indeed, if the entire earth's surface were leveled by smoothing out the topography of not only the land surface but also the rock surface on the ocean floor, the waters of the ocean would cover the earth's surface to a depth of 1.7 miles (2.7 kilometers). We need to remember that nearly 70 percent of the earth's surface is still covered by water. Quite clearly, then, the waters of Noah's Flood are in today's ocean basins.
Yeah, your book made a claim with zero evidence therefore any water left "must" be from the flood.

Just ignore the fact there's zero evidence for and plenty of evidence against. But none of that matters when Godmagic fixes everything.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#73138 Jan 30, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
I said I don't care about the politics...politics and facts might be the same to you...but there's a world of difference.
Science taught with political bias, to support the ideology of science is not true science.
Religion taught with political bias, to support the ideology of religion is not true religion.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#73139 Jan 30, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>The word of God says it came about by the dividing of the waters. This is how the other elements were seperated from what was water to begin with and the dry part became solid earth. This is how it happened and the Bible tells us about it.
No, the BIBLE says it. A book written by men. And quite clearly, wrong on many points including this one.

If you want to look at what "God said", read the universe. Humans cannot fake a universe and the universe is telling us that Genesis is wrong.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73140 Jan 30, 2013
Cybele wrote:
Funny how someone tries to use logic to explain something with substance and yet you counter it with "well show me empirical evidence or it never happened."
Well, then why don't you give us the evidence.
I've provided evidence for my position numerous times over. So far it's never been addressed.

Not even once.

Nothing wrong with logic, but logic alone is not enough. The ways of Aristotle have been considered out of date for a LONG time now. It was that line of thinking that one could sit on their fat azzes and just apply "logic" and claim to be able to figure out everything that led to erroneous conclusions. For example, it was considered "logical" to conclude that heavier objects fall faster than lighter ones. There's a nice video of one of the first astronauts on the moon dropping a feather and a heavier object. Without air resistance they both fell at the same rate.

Evidence and testing are ESSENTIAL to science. Logic alone simply doesn't cut it, for abstract concepts of logic may not necessarily match up to reality. Quantum physicists certainly agree with that.
Cybele wrote:
You know how scientists have perfectly assembled fossilized dinosaur bones and yet NONE of them contain DNA. And yet the list of dinosaurs is astounding. No matter what you say we know that all bones contain DNA.
Start from here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dinosaur...
65 million year old fossils are made of bone? Really? When did that start happening?

We don't get much DNA once the years reach 6 figures. On rare occasions we CAN get dessicated proteins, and they fall in line with what's expected of evolution. As does your list of fossils. Thanks for that.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73141 Jan 30, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
"A study by ancient DNA researchers at Western Australia's Murdoch University has found the hereditary material cannot survive more than 6.8 million years. Most dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago."
http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/7803373/Fossil...
Wow, as long as that? Interesting. I stand corrected.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73142 Jan 30, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
They don't want evidences that goes against their science ideologies...they only except evidences that support their own secular views.
Their claim of one of bias impartiality.lol
It's not a problem, you simply haven't presented evidence.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73143 Jan 30, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I know that. But there are claims of DNA found in some dinosaurs.
The Mighty T-Rex!
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7285683/ns/technolo...

How's that for a contradiction, eh?
There was none. That the Schweizer piece? Yup, no DNA. What they found was dried collagen, not DNA. Collagen is a very stable protein, and they hypothesize it survived due to being dried out and hermetically sealed, protected from the elements. And as pointed out the proteins were very similar to what we find in modern birds, thus helping confirm the dino-bird hypothesis.

Unfortunately a few popular news sites, as well as many lying creationists keep repeating the claim that they found DNA. This is not actually the case.

Not that it would have any bearing on the validity of common ancestry, the claims made by creo's are about the age of the Earth issue.
wow

Seattle, WA

#73144 Jan 30, 2013
wow
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73146 Jan 30, 2013
Cybele wrote:
Man should have an even closer relative than chimpanzee:“the potato”!. Because the number of chromosomes in potatoes is the same as that of man: 46
The analyses done on some proteins show man as close to some very different living beings. In a survey carried out by the researchers in Cambridge University, some proteins of land dwelling animals were compared. Amazingly, in nearly all samples, man and chicken were paired as the closest relatives. The next closest relative was crocodile.(New Scientist v.103, 16 August 1984, p.19)
It's hard to believe, but each tree has unique DNA. Tree DNA is surprisingly similar to human DNA. It has the same basic building blocks. It has the same bases. They're arranged in the same way. The genetic code is the same in trees and in humans. There's a surprising similarity.
- Dr. Eleanor White
That's like saying fish are our closest relatives because they also have two eyes.

Sorry, but there's lots of organisms which have the same amount of chromosomes as other organisms. But when we do a base-by-base comparison they are very different, including the chromosomes. Now, if all the chromosomal DNA was also greater than a 98% match then maybe you'd have something...

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#73147 Jan 30, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
And of course God condoned slavery too. In America in the mid 19th century church pastors were using the Bible as justification for slavery. Rednecks Southerners believed it all.
There are several passages in the babble when god instructs that slaves should be taken and or beaten

Exodus 21:20-21
Deuteronomy 20:13-14
Deuteronomy 21:10-13
2 Samuel 8:13
Numbers 31:31-40 – this includes the approval of human sacrifice – such a nice role model.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73148 Jan 30, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
so in "reality" there is no empirical evidence carbon dating does not break down as a reliable measurement.
T/F...?
Of course it does. Which is why it's not used passed 60,000 years. Since evolution uses timescales of millions of years its validity remains largely unaffected by carbon dating. There's around 60+ different methods of dating, all used in different ways for different situations. When used correctly, the dates concur.

But since you now have an issue with various scientific dating techniques as well as biology, I thank you for openly admitting to throwing out physics and biology too. In short, you reject ALL science.

Stop using your computer and go back to living in a cave.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73149 Jan 30, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Then there can be no real evidence to trace how chickens evolved from dinosaurs without DNA evidence.
Actually we have evidence from comparative anatomy and protein comparisons. But if you want DNA then we have that too, in the form of dormant DNA that sometimes reactivates and causes them to grow their dino teeth. This has an unfortunate effect of fusing their beak together and killing the chicken.

Happy now?

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#73150 Jan 30, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
The ways of Aristotle have been considered out of date for a LONG time now. It was that line of thinking that one could sit on their fat azzes and just apply "logic" and claim to be able to figure out everything that led to erroneous conclusions.
Hey go easy on Aristotle! He was one of the great observers, and contrasts admirably with Plato (his teacher), in all the ways above that you mention. Plato thought it could all be figured out in the abstract, but Aristotle made great "pre-scientific" strides, for example observing that whales were more like mammals than fish.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73151 Jan 30, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Universal Intelligence is a term used by some to describe what they see as organization, or order of the universe. It has been described as "the intrinsic tendency for things to self-organize and co-evolve into ever more complex, intricately interwoven and mutually compatible forms."
In attempting to design an artificial machine intelligence, the term universal intelligence is a descriptive term based on a mathematical formula.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Intell...
There is math in everything. That's the universal language and the universal intelligence of everything! It's simple matrix.
Simple matrix or complex mathematical language?

There is only math if an intelligence is their to ascribe it to something. But a rock won't stop being a rock just because there's no humans around to apply math to it.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73152 Jan 30, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Intrinsic intelligent design.
By whom via what observable mechanism? And when? And where?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73153 Jan 30, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Could care less about the politics involved.
Of course not. Because ID really IS creationism, just as we pointed out. Which was contrary to YOUR claims. But it doesn't matter if you're wrong, does it?(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73154 Jan 30, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
The only point I was making was that tree rings used to verify the method....but there is quite a difference between one hundred year old tree rings, and millions of year old fossils.
Gee, ya think?

Therefore we can use longstanding trees to confirm carbon dating within 9,000 years. And we use neither of those for dates involving millions of years.

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#73155 Jan 30, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Liar!
If the bible is actually that, there would be no 10 commandments, which speaks against …

…
This makes you to be a liar and a misquoter of the bible.
Sorry, are you saying a passage that says be good and worship god or the additional 603 commandments that crop up in the OT means that all the rest of the babble is irrelevant? Those verses I mentioned exist, they represent examples, and by no means all the atrocities and hatred metered out by the babble. I have given you the verse numbers and still you deny that they exist. You really are deliberately ignorant

There is considerable evidence to suggest that the last jc was actually a terrorist who was crucified for murder, i.e. the babble is a liar

Misquoter???

Genesis 7:11-24
King James Version (KJV)
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.
17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

Exodus 12:29
King James Version (KJV)
29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

Deuteronomy 21:10-13
King James Version (KJV)
10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,
11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;
12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.

Tell me what is misquoted about those passages?

OR ARE YOU LYING TO PROTECT YOUR OWN LITTLE DELUSIONAL BUBBLE?

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