Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#72904 Jan 28, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>Nice cut and paste job. Without citation I might add. I think I've also mentioned cosmologists looking for a unified theory of gravity for some time now.
Nova.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#72905 Jan 28, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>My religious opinions are just as valid as yours.
Nope, I've got the Bible you've got nothing close.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Indianapolis, IN

#72906 Jan 28, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Therefore not one race is more advanced than another? Nazi ideology isn't based on evolution?
Artificial selection. Selective breeding. Perhaps you've heard of it.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#72907 Jan 28, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>Yup.

That was another one. Just wait 'till I send you the bill.
That's ok I've got 3 Bills how about a Sue or Mary?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#72908 Jan 28, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
Now what's your point? That the Egyptians invaded Canaan and defeated the House of David?
Nope. Your claim is that archaeological sites support the Bible, and the Egyptians outnumber you in that regard. By a mile. 40 cities, 116 pyramids, numerous temples and burial sites both royal and civilian...
Langoliers wrote:
It's only been written in the Bible for over 1600 years. It's called validation of the Bible in case your interested.
And obviously you never heard of Higher Criticism, whereby Christian scholars critiqued the Bible during the 16th & 17th centuries to see how much of it matched up with known history. They found that some did, some didn't, and the rest couldn't be verified. Especially the magic bits.

But all of this is superfluous to the fact that all the archaeology in the world is not evidence of invisible Jewmagic.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#72909 Jan 28, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, I've got the Bible you've got nothing close.
And boy am I glad.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#72910 Jan 28, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Artificial selection. Selective breeding. Perhaps you've heard of it.
He's heard of it, he just didn't understand it the first few hundred times.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#72911 Jan 28, 2013
lisawow wrote:
<quoted text>Really, so catholics elect female bishops, priests and popes and you are all cuddly and cute religous buddies in getting behind gay marriage because god created all men equal??There's no pro slavery passages in the bible and women are always seen as equal in the eyes of god in the bible??????????Christianity... the religion of no personal responsibility!!!!!!!!!!There is a point in every persons life when they have to grow up, the problem with judo-christianic belief is that you never, ever do..........
I'm sensing a bit of hatred coming out of this post.

"Mary Magdalene (original Greek Μαρία2] or Mary of Magdala and sometimes The Magdalene, was one of Jesus' most celebrated disciples, and the most important female disciple in the movement of Jesus.[3] Jesus cleansed her of "seven demons",[Lu 8:2][Mk 16:9] sometimes interpreted as referring to complex illnesses.[4] She became Jesus' close friend. She was most prominent during his last days. When Jesus was crucified by the Romans, Mary Magdalene was there supporting him in his final terrifying moments and mourning his death.[5] She stayed with him at the cross after the male disciples (excepting John the Beloved) had fled. She was at his burial. In all four New Testament Gospels, Mary Magdalene is the first (either alone or with a group of women) to arrive at Jesus' tomb, where she encounters an angel (or a pair of angels) who instructs her to go tell the disciples that Jesus has risen.[6][7]She was the first person to see Jesus after his Resurrection,[3] according to both John 20 and Mark 16:9. She was there at the "beginning of a movement that was going to transform the West".[5] Because of her pivotal role in the Resurrection, she became known as "the apostle to the apostles".[6]"

This from Wikipedia.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#72912 Jan 28, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>Except he didn't. God created two "perfect" human beings called Adam and Eve (not even mentioning the ones of the savage plains who the fundies can't decide if they were created separately or offspring of Adam and Eve). After which came TEH FALL! Whereby all humans born thereafter became less "perfect" with each subsequent generation. It may also be worth noting that the vast majority of depictions of Adam and Eve just so happen to be white Europeans. However it makes little difference which race is put on top, the end result is a claim that is PROFOUNDLY racist.

Langoliers wrote, "by "Darwinism". By suggesting that man had evolved from more primitive creatures, and that some races had evolved further than others, it provided racism with a scientific mask."

While evolution HAS been incorrectly misused in the past to justify racial bigotry, the fact of the matter is that this has no bearing on the scientific validity of the current theory of evolution, also known as the modern evolutionary synthesis. And that states that there is no such thing as "more evolved", since ALL life is posited to have come from a common ancestry. Meaning that ALL species that exist today have the EXACT SAME amount of time to evolve. Therefore not one is any more advanced than another, according to evolutionary theory.

Creationists often object to this as they aren't fond of the idea of all life being on a level playing field.

Langoliers wrote, "In short, Darwin is the father of racism."

Gee, because racism never existed before Darwin's day, right?

Oh wait - it existed for THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

Langoliers wrote, "His theory was taken up and commented on by such 'official' founders of racism as Arthur Gobineau and Houston Stewart Chamberlain, and the racist ideology which emerged was then put into practice by the Nazis and other fascists. James Joll, who spent long years as a professor of history at universities such as Oxford, Stanford, and Harvard, explained the relationship between Darwinism and racism in his book Europe Since 1870, which is still taught as a textbook in universities:""

First, Nazi ideology wasn't based on the theory of evolution, as evolution espouses NATURAL selection, which kinda flies right in the face of eugenics (ARTIFICIAL selection).

Also bear in mind that while Wilberforce and like-minded individuals were calling for the abolition of slavery, people used the Bible as justification, due the the Bible's support of such practices in no uncertain terms.

And as for Darwin himself, he was a product of his time. And while by no means perfect was certainly a little more enlightened than many others of his day. As shown on page ONE. Of THIS thread:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...

Sorry fundies, but science can't be debunked by ad-hom rhetoric.
Debunking:
noun
1: what one does when they roll over and see KK in the bunk with them.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#72913 Jan 28, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, I've got the Bible you've got nothing close.
Yeah, right.

"It's only been written in the Bible for over 1600 years. It's called validation of the Bible in case your interested."

Sheesh.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#72914 Jan 28, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>Desperate? Not really. You're the one trying to claim a couple of people and some buildings prove invisible Jewmagic.

Oh, and continually ignoring anything you find theologically inconvenient.
No it's official writings in stone that revealed the proof of King David and the house of David.

Atheist long used King David as proof that the Bible was not historically accurate. Then they find the proof that King David did in fact exist exactly as the Bible described. And atheist try and trash that proof. Here's to trying to have it both ways.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Indianapolis, IN

#72915 Jan 28, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
No it's official writings in stone that revealed the proof of King David and the house of David.
Atheist long used King David as proof that the Bible was not historically accurate. Then they find the proof that King David did in fact exist exactly as the Bible described. And atheist try and trash that proof. Here's to trying to have it both ways.
.
The Merneptah Stele (with a E not an A) does appear to refer to Israel though who or where is subject to some debate. It's in the Cairo Museum. I saw it when I was there. Impressive.

Haven't seen your reference for the House of David. Care to share?

“River of tears flowing out of ”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

West Plains

#72916 Jan 28, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Debunking:
noun
1: what one does when they roll over and see KK in the bunk with them.
This from the person that wins by redefining everything and changing the goal posts and the playing field.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#72917 Jan 28, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
"CLEARLY Darwin himself was not a racist"
LOL. Really? LOL
"Racism and Darwinism
The greatest influence in the sudden development of racism in the 19th century Europe was the replacement of the Christian belief that "God created all people equal" by "Darwinism". By suggesting that man had evolved from more primitive creatures, and that some races had evolved further than others, it provided racism with a scientific mask.
What a nice selective memory you have there!

"The Curse of Ham" was used throughout the slavery days in the US as justification for keeping African-Americans as property, at times torturing, raping and even murdering them. During this time, they were counted as 3/5's of a person for census-keeping.

Charlemagne in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded.

Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (jewish, muslim, men, women, children).
(In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude").

Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada alone allegedly responsible for 10,220 burnings.

From the beginning of Christianity to 1484 probably more than several thousand.
in the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to modern scholars several hundred thousand (about 80% female) burned at the stake or hanged.

Martin Luther....Yeah, THAT Martin Luther, founder of the Protestant movement. He wrote a book in 1543 entitled "On the Jews and Their Lies".

Some highlights:

Lutheradvises Christians to carry out seven remedial actions. These are:

1.for Jewish synagogues and schools to be burned to the ground, and the remnants buried out of sight;
2.for houses owned by Jews to be likewise razed, and the owners made to live in agricultural outbuildings;
3.for their religious writings to be taken away;
4.for rabbis to be forbidden to preach, and to be executed if they do;
5.for safe conduct on the roads to be abolished for Jews;
6.for usury to be prohibited, and for all silver and gold to be removed and "put aside for safekeeping"; and
7.for the Jewish population to be put to work as agricultural slave labor.

Four hundred years after it was written, the Nazis displayed "On the Jews and Their Lies" during Nuremberg rallies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_...

How about the conquest of the New World? "Good, fine Christian folk" subjugated indigenous peoples all over the world 'In the Name of God'.

The indian chief Hatuey fled with his people but was captured and burned alive. As "they were tying him to the stake a Franciscan friar urged him to take Jesus to his heart so that his soul might go to heaven, rather than descend into hell. Hatuey replied that if heaven was where the Christians went, he would rather go to hell."
What happened to his people was described by an eyewitness:
"The Spaniards found pleasure in inventing all kinds of odd cruelties ... They built a long gibbet, long enough for the toes to touch the ground to prevent strangling, and hanged thirteen [natives] at a time in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles... then, straw was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive."
Or, on another occasion:
"The Spaniards cut off the arm of one, the leg or hip of another, and from some their heads at one stroke, like butchers cutting up beef and mutton for market. Six hundred, including the cacique, were thus slain like brute beasts...Vasco [de Balboa] ordered forty of them to be torn to pieces by dogs."

<<and much, MUCH more>>

http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm
Alien Outlaw

Kansas City, MO

#72918 Jan 28, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I would be scared if I'm confronted by an alien. It's bad enough that I had a dream about them. lol. We are not products of just one God. I believe there are beings from different dimensions whether they take the form of spirits, angels, or aliens. They're all at work here.
I agree Cybele. Our encounter was on a level of pure amazement. Was it God/Angels in that craft? Was it the Govt? Was it infact Aliens or a probe with the Mother ship close by? Don't know. We have discussed many options that lead to the same conclusion........Humans will never know and don't want to know. Labeled nuts, wackjobs, on numerous substances, hallucinating, dreaming, swamp gas.....on and on. It has changed our outlook on life. Knowing that someone or something can have such control over the human body is terrifying at all levels.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#72919 Jan 28, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>.
The Merneptah Stele (with a E not an A) does appear to refer to Israel though who or where is subject to some debate. It's in the Cairo Museum. I saw it when I was there. Impressive.

Haven't seen your reference for the House of David. Care to share?
No problem

http://www.seeking4truth.com/historical_accur...

I have also seen a program on PBS on this find. So there is a DVD on it.

"Recent archeological investigations have demolished the position of those who rejected the biblical account of Israel's kings such as King David. In 1993, archeologists digging at Tel Dan in the Galilee in northern Israel found a fragment of a stone inscription that clearly refers to the "house of David" and identifies David as the "king of Israel." This is the first inscription outside the Bible that confirms the Bible's statement that David was the king of Israel in the ninth century before Christ."

"In addition to the archeological evidence for King David, we now have confirmation of other kings of Israel. The name of Omri, king of Israel, is recorded on an inscription known as the Stela of King Mesha of Moab. In addition, Omri's name appears on the rock inscriptions of three kings of Assyria, the annals of both Tiglath-Pileser III and Sargon II, and the Black Obelisk of King Shalmaneser III, who wrote, "I conquered ... all of the Land of Omri (Israel)." Other Assyrian inscriptions found in Nineveh confirm the Bible's records about these kings of Israel: Ahab, Jehu, Joash, Menehem, Pekah, and Hoshea. In addition, the names of many of the kings of the southern kingdom of Judah are also recorded on inscriptions of the nations that fought against the Jews. The inscriptions found by archeologists also confirm the names of these kings of Judah: Ahaziah, Uzziah, Ahaz, Hezekiah, Manasseh, and Jehoiachin. Scholars found ration records of the army of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon (606 to 562 B.C.) that state, "ten sila of oil to Jehoiachin, king of Judah...." Obviously, the fact that these foreign nations listed the kings of Israel and Judah provides the strongest evidence confirming the accuracy of the Word of God.

Historicity of other Biblical Personalities

One of the most interesting discoveries in recent years was the finding of two bull', or clay seals, that bear the impression of the actual seal used by Baruch, the scribe of Jeremiah the prophet who transcribed the Book of Jeremiah. Both bull' bear the inscription, "Belonging to Berekhyahu, son of Neriyahu, the Scribe." One of these clay seals is on view in the Israel Museum in Jerusalem. However, the second bull' was found in Jerusalem earlier in this century and purchased by collector Shlomo Moussaieff of London who owns the greatest private collection of ancient Jewish inscriptions in the world. This second clay seal, bearing the same inscription, also reveals a fingerprint that probably belonged to Baruch."

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#72920 Jan 28, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>This from the person that wins by redefining everything and changing the goal posts and the playing field.
"Debunking:
noun
1: what one does when they roll over and see KK in the bunk with them."

You didn't like this?

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#72921 Jan 28, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>What a nice selective memory you have there!

"The Curse of Ham" was used throughout the slavery days in the US as justification for keeping African-Americans as property, at times torturing, raping and even murdering them. During this time, they were counted as 3/5's of a person for census-keeping.

Charlemagne in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded.

Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (jewish, muslim, men, women, children).
(In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude").

Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada alone allegedly responsible for 10,220 burnings.

From the beginning of Christianity to 1484 probably more than several thousand.
in the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to modern scholars several hundred thousand (about 80% female) burned at the stake or hanged.

Martin Luther....Yeah, THAT Martin Luther, founder of the Protestant movement. He wrote a book in 1543 entitled "On the Jews and Their Lies".

Some highlights:

Lutheradvises Christians to carry out seven remedial actions. These are:

1.for Jewish synagogues and schools to be burned to the ground, and the remnants buried out of sight;
2.for houses owned by Jews to be likewise razed, and the owners made to live in agricultural outbuildings;
3.for their religious writings to be taken away;
4.for rabbis to be forbidden to preach, and to be executed if they do;
5.for safe conduct on the roads to be abolished for Jews;
6.for usury to be prohibited, and for all silver and gold to be removed and "put aside for safekeeping"; and
7.for the Jewish population to be put to work as agricultural slave labor.

Four hundred years after it was written, the Nazis displayed "On the Jews and Their Lies" during Nuremberg rallies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_...

How about the conquest of the New World? "Good, fine Christian folk" subjugated indigenous peoples all over the world 'In the Name of God'.

The indian chief Hatuey fled with his people but was captured and burned alive. As "they were tying him to the stake a Franciscan friar urged him to take Jesus to his heart so that his soul might go to heaven, rather than descend into hell. Hatuey replied that if heaven was where the Christians went, he would rather go to hell."
What happened to his people was described by an eyewitness:
"The Spaniards found pleasure in inventing all kinds of odd cruelties ... They built a long gibbet, long enough for the toes to touch the ground to prevent strangling, and hanged thirteen [natives] at a time in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles... then, straw was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive."
Or, on another occasion:
"The Spaniards cut off the arm of one, the leg or hip of another, and from some their heads at one stroke, like butchers cutting up beef and mutton for market. Six hundred, including the cacique, were thus slain like brute beasts...Vasco [de Balboa] ordered forty of them to be torn to pieces by dogs."

<<and much, MUCH more>>

http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm
Really?

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#72922 Jan 28, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Really?
Do you deny what I presented?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#72923 Jan 28, 2013
Langoliers, the fact that some of the Bible is correct does not mean that all of the Bible is correct. For example there probably was a King David. Maybe even a Solomon, but that is about as far back as the Bible goes with any accuracy. After that it is all tall tales and fables. If you notice as a rule the tales get less tall the more recent the Bible is, in the Old Testament at least.

Now the New Testament breaks out a whole new series of miracles, and yet there are no records of any of the people of that time that saw those miracles, other than from Christian sources. We know that they were still a small minority when Jesus was crucified. Why didn't any nonbelievers write about the weird things they saw?

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