Evolution vs. Creation

Jan 6, 2011 Read more: Best of New Orleans 159,240
High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Read more
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#72898 Jan 28, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Therefore not one race is more advanced than another? Nazi ideology isn't based on evolution?
No, it isn't. It's based on racial superiority. Which they tried to engineer via the application of eugenics (also kinda daft when you think about it). It's possible that some Nazi's THOUGHT they were basing it on evolution, but like every good fundie they misunderstood the concept. Kinda like if they used steamrollers to run people over. We can't blame the steamrollers for the Nazi's using 'em wrong.
bohart wrote:
Dude! get back to your keyboard , theres a mad syphilis infected monkey banking away..
..on second thought forget it, he's an improvement.
Your sense of humour is improving.

Okay, so I was just trying to make you feel better.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#72899 Jan 28, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
"Yeah, there's evidence of a King of the House of David. That doesn't necessarily mean your David definitely existed."
Getting desperate?
It definitely does mean King David existed. Them's the Facts.
Desperate? Not really. You're the one trying to claim a couple of people and some buildings prove invisible Jewmagic.

Oh, and continually ignoring anything you find theologically inconvenient.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Indianapolis, IN

#72900 Jan 28, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
"CLEARLY Darwin himself was not a racist"
LOL. Really? LOL
"Racism and Darwinism
The greatest influence in the sudden development of racism in the 19th century Europe was the replacement of the Christian belief that "God created all people equal" by "Darwinism". By suggesting that man had evolved from more primitive creatures, and that some races had evolved further than others, it provided racism with a scientific mask.
In short, Darwin is the father of racism. His theory was taken up and commented on by such 'official' founders of racism as Arthur Gobineau and Houston Stewart Chamberlain, and the racist ideology which emerged was then put into practice by the Nazis and other fascists. James Joll, who spent long years as a professor of history at universities such as Oxford, Stanford, and Harvard, explained the relationship between Darwinism and racism in his book Europe Since 1870, which is still taught as a textbook in universities:"
Still spouting nonsense, I see.

For example:

Racism long predated Darwin. Therefore, he can not be its father.

Hitler had Darwin's books banned and burned.

But don't let facts get in your way. Why ruin a good rant, eh?

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#72901 Jan 28, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>You kidding? You fundies cost me a fortune in irony meters.
I figured.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Indianapolis, IN

#72902 Jan 28, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
It is a faith not a fact.
Agreed.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#72903 Jan 28, 2013
lisawow wrote:
<quoted text>I don't think anyone would deny that there is some historical basis to the bible, after all most good stories are based on or set in a historical context, even in the present tense, however that does not make all of the bible true anymore than a pressrelaease from the Iraq foreign minister tomorrow might be based on the events of today yet still be full of political bias. The bible is not a "neutral" historical document, it is a statement of faith, about as reliable as a Rush Limbaugh quote taken without very serious context explanations, the question of "god" is not answered by simply stating that someone said it is so.........it's that simple, and indeed, that complicated.
"Many people do not believe that the Bible is a reliable document of history. But, the fact is the Bible is very trustworthy as a historical document. If we were to look at a chart that compared the biblical documents with other ancient documents, we would see that the Bible is in a class by itself regarding the number of ancient copies and their reliability. Please consider the chart below."

"It should be obvious that the biblical documents, especially the New Testament documents, are superior in their quantity, time span from original occurrence, and textual reliability. People still question if the documents are reliably transmitted to us; but they should rather ask if the biblical documents record actual historical accounts.

The Bible is a book of History

It could be said that the Bible is a book of history -- and it is. The Bible describes places, people, and events in various degrees of detail. It is essentially an historical account of the people of God throughout thousands of years. If you open to almost any page in the Bible you will find a name of a place and/or a person. Much of this can be verified from archaeology. Though archaeology cannot prove that the Bible is the inspired word of God, it has the ability to prove whether or not some events and locations described therein are true or false. So far, however, there isn't a single archaeological discovery that disproves the Bible in any way."

http://carm.org/can-we-trust-new-testament-hi...

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#72904 Jan 28, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>Nice cut and paste job. Without citation I might add. I think I've also mentioned cosmologists looking for a unified theory of gravity for some time now.
Nova.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#72905 Jan 28, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>My religious opinions are just as valid as yours.
Nope, I've got the Bible you've got nothing close.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Indianapolis, IN

#72906 Jan 28, 2013
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Therefore not one race is more advanced than another? Nazi ideology isn't based on evolution?
Artificial selection. Selective breeding. Perhaps you've heard of it.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#72907 Jan 28, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>Yup.

That was another one. Just wait 'till I send you the bill.
That's ok I've got 3 Bills how about a Sue or Mary?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#72908 Jan 28, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
Now what's your point? That the Egyptians invaded Canaan and defeated the House of David?
Nope. Your claim is that archaeological sites support the Bible, and the Egyptians outnumber you in that regard. By a mile. 40 cities, 116 pyramids, numerous temples and burial sites both royal and civilian...
Langoliers wrote:
It's only been written in the Bible for over 1600 years. It's called validation of the Bible in case your interested.
And obviously you never heard of Higher Criticism, whereby Christian scholars critiqued the Bible during the 16th & 17th centuries to see how much of it matched up with known history. They found that some did, some didn't, and the rest couldn't be verified. Especially the magic bits.

But all of this is superfluous to the fact that all the archaeology in the world is not evidence of invisible Jewmagic.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#72909 Jan 28, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, I've got the Bible you've got nothing close.
And boy am I glad.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#72910 Jan 28, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Artificial selection. Selective breeding. Perhaps you've heard of it.
He's heard of it, he just didn't understand it the first few hundred times.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#72911 Jan 28, 2013
lisawow wrote:
<quoted text>Really, so catholics elect female bishops, priests and popes and you are all cuddly and cute religous buddies in getting behind gay marriage because god created all men equal??There's no pro slavery passages in the bible and women are always seen as equal in the eyes of god in the bible??????????Christianity... the religion of no personal responsibility!!!!!!!!!!There is a point in every persons life when they have to grow up, the problem with judo-christianic belief is that you never, ever do..........
I'm sensing a bit of hatred coming out of this post.

"Mary Magdalene (original Greek Μαρία2] or Mary of Magdala and sometimes The Magdalene, was one of Jesus' most celebrated disciples, and the most important female disciple in the movement of Jesus.[3] Jesus cleansed her of "seven demons",[Lu 8:2][Mk 16:9] sometimes interpreted as referring to complex illnesses.[4] She became Jesus' close friend. She was most prominent during his last days. When Jesus was crucified by the Romans, Mary Magdalene was there supporting him in his final terrifying moments and mourning his death.[5] She stayed with him at the cross after the male disciples (excepting John the Beloved) had fled. She was at his burial. In all four New Testament Gospels, Mary Magdalene is the first (either alone or with a group of women) to arrive at Jesus' tomb, where she encounters an angel (or a pair of angels) who instructs her to go tell the disciples that Jesus has risen.[6][7]She was the first person to see Jesus after his Resurrection,[3] according to both John 20 and Mark 16:9. She was there at the "beginning of a movement that was going to transform the West".[5] Because of her pivotal role in the Resurrection, she became known as "the apostle to the apostles".[6]"

This from Wikipedia.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#72912 Jan 28, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>Except he didn't. God created two "perfect" human beings called Adam and Eve (not even mentioning the ones of the savage plains who the fundies can't decide if they were created separately or offspring of Adam and Eve). After which came TEH FALL! Whereby all humans born thereafter became less "perfect" with each subsequent generation. It may also be worth noting that the vast majority of depictions of Adam and Eve just so happen to be white Europeans. However it makes little difference which race is put on top, the end result is a claim that is PROFOUNDLY racist.

Langoliers wrote, "by "Darwinism". By suggesting that man had evolved from more primitive creatures, and that some races had evolved further than others, it provided racism with a scientific mask."

While evolution HAS been incorrectly misused in the past to justify racial bigotry, the fact of the matter is that this has no bearing on the scientific validity of the current theory of evolution, also known as the modern evolutionary synthesis. And that states that there is no such thing as "more evolved", since ALL life is posited to have come from a common ancestry. Meaning that ALL species that exist today have the EXACT SAME amount of time to evolve. Therefore not one is any more advanced than another, according to evolutionary theory.

Creationists often object to this as they aren't fond of the idea of all life being on a level playing field.

Langoliers wrote, "In short, Darwin is the father of racism."

Gee, because racism never existed before Darwin's day, right?

Oh wait - it existed for THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

Langoliers wrote, "His theory was taken up and commented on by such 'official' founders of racism as Arthur Gobineau and Houston Stewart Chamberlain, and the racist ideology which emerged was then put into practice by the Nazis and other fascists. James Joll, who spent long years as a professor of history at universities such as Oxford, Stanford, and Harvard, explained the relationship between Darwinism and racism in his book Europe Since 1870, which is still taught as a textbook in universities:""

First, Nazi ideology wasn't based on the theory of evolution, as evolution espouses NATURAL selection, which kinda flies right in the face of eugenics (ARTIFICIAL selection).

Also bear in mind that while Wilberforce and like-minded individuals were calling for the abolition of slavery, people used the Bible as justification, due the the Bible's support of such practices in no uncertain terms.

And as for Darwin himself, he was a product of his time. And while by no means perfect was certainly a little more enlightened than many others of his day. As shown on page ONE. Of THIS thread:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...

Sorry fundies, but science can't be debunked by ad-hom rhetoric.
Debunking:
noun
1: what one does when they roll over and see KK in the bunk with them.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#72913 Jan 28, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, I've got the Bible you've got nothing close.
Yeah, right.

"It's only been written in the Bible for over 1600 years. It's called validation of the Bible in case your interested."

Sheesh.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#72914 Jan 28, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>Desperate? Not really. You're the one trying to claim a couple of people and some buildings prove invisible Jewmagic.

Oh, and continually ignoring anything you find theologically inconvenient.
No it's official writings in stone that revealed the proof of King David and the house of David.

Atheist long used King David as proof that the Bible was not historically accurate. Then they find the proof that King David did in fact exist exactly as the Bible described. And atheist try and trash that proof. Here's to trying to have it both ways.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Indianapolis, IN

#72915 Jan 28, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
No it's official writings in stone that revealed the proof of King David and the house of David.
Atheist long used King David as proof that the Bible was not historically accurate. Then they find the proof that King David did in fact exist exactly as the Bible described. And atheist try and trash that proof. Here's to trying to have it both ways.
.
The Merneptah Stele (with a E not an A) does appear to refer to Israel though who or where is subject to some debate. It's in the Cairo Museum. I saw it when I was there. Impressive.

Haven't seen your reference for the House of David. Care to share?

“Don't be mad at me.”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

I'm just a little bunny.

#72916 Jan 28, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Debunking:
noun
1: what one does when they roll over and see KK in the bunk with them.
This from the person that wins by redefining everything and changing the goal posts and the playing field.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#72917 Jan 28, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
"CLEARLY Darwin himself was not a racist"
LOL. Really? LOL
"Racism and Darwinism
The greatest influence in the sudden development of racism in the 19th century Europe was the replacement of the Christian belief that "God created all people equal" by "Darwinism". By suggesting that man had evolved from more primitive creatures, and that some races had evolved further than others, it provided racism with a scientific mask.
What a nice selective memory you have there!

"The Curse of Ham" was used throughout the slavery days in the US as justification for keeping African-Americans as property, at times torturing, raping and even murdering them. During this time, they were counted as 3/5's of a person for census-keeping.

Charlemagne in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded.

Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (jewish, muslim, men, women, children).
(In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude").

Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada alone allegedly responsible for 10,220 burnings.

From the beginning of Christianity to 1484 probably more than several thousand.
in the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to modern scholars several hundred thousand (about 80% female) burned at the stake or hanged.

Martin Luther....Yeah, THAT Martin Luther, founder of the Protestant movement. He wrote a book in 1543 entitled "On the Jews and Their Lies".

Some highlights:

Lutheradvises Christians to carry out seven remedial actions. These are:

1.for Jewish synagogues and schools to be burned to the ground, and the remnants buried out of sight;
2.for houses owned by Jews to be likewise razed, and the owners made to live in agricultural outbuildings;
3.for their religious writings to be taken away;
4.for rabbis to be forbidden to preach, and to be executed if they do;
5.for safe conduct on the roads to be abolished for Jews;
6.for usury to be prohibited, and for all silver and gold to be removed and "put aside for safekeeping"; and
7.for the Jewish population to be put to work as agricultural slave labor.

Four hundred years after it was written, the Nazis displayed "On the Jews and Their Lies" during Nuremberg rallies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_...

How about the conquest of the New World? "Good, fine Christian folk" subjugated indigenous peoples all over the world 'In the Name of God'.

The indian chief Hatuey fled with his people but was captured and burned alive. As "they were tying him to the stake a Franciscan friar urged him to take Jesus to his heart so that his soul might go to heaven, rather than descend into hell. Hatuey replied that if heaven was where the Christians went, he would rather go to hell."
What happened to his people was described by an eyewitness:
"The Spaniards found pleasure in inventing all kinds of odd cruelties ... They built a long gibbet, long enough for the toes to touch the ground to prevent strangling, and hanged thirteen [natives] at a time in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles... then, straw was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive."
Or, on another occasion:
"The Spaniards cut off the arm of one, the leg or hip of another, and from some their heads at one stroke, like butchers cutting up beef and mutton for market. Six hundred, including the cacique, were thus slain like brute beasts...Vasco [de Balboa] ordered forty of them to be torn to pieces by dogs."

<<and much, MUCH more>>

http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

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