Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Read more

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#71717 Jan 22, 2013
neutral observer wrote:
<quoted text>
Does your creed believe in anarchy, terrorism or cutting out still beating human hearts and is your sexual persuasion bestuiality or pedophilia?
To suggest we grant equal rights to all creeds and sexual persuasions is...
In truth people should keep what they do in the bedroom in the bedroom. The very idea that they need to broadcast it to the world... violates everyone else's right to be left alone.
Who wants to hear about some guy they work with and his sexual fantasies anyway? There is an inherent right to privacy.
With all due respect, I think you knew where I was going with my post. To suggest otherwise is ignorant.
neutral observer

Lake Worth, FL

#71718 Jan 22, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
There is utter chaos. The stars are the embodiment of that chaos. The laws are simply observed recurrences. Also, nothing lasts that long. You think billions of years is a long time, to the universe it's a blink of an eye.
Planets are the result of chemicals going through very chaotic changes, predictable but still chaotic. These settle into the less chaotic versions of the atoms, still chaotic down in the core though. Physics is making sense of that chaos, understanding it, and learning to predict it, it is not the study of balance at all.
Without chaos there would be no change, without change nothing would exist.
From electrons orbiting an atom to groups of galaxies orbiting one another there is an order in pretty much everything. Where is this chaos of which you speak?

Without order the universe would not exist.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#71719 Jan 22, 2013
Can't have order without chaos...or chaos without order.

...relative terms.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#71720 Jan 22, 2013
neutral observer wrote:
<quoted text>
From electrons orbiting an atom to groups of galaxies orbiting one another there is an order in pretty much everything. Where is this chaos of which you speak?
Without order the universe would not exist.
Stars exploding. Planets crashing into each other. Black holes swallowing whole galaxies. When two galaxies collide it's a massive mess and nothing but chaos. Are you blind?

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#71721 Jan 22, 2013
neutral observer wrote:
<quoted text>
If it were not balanced there would be utter chaos. We live in an ordered universe which follows basic laws. Physics is the scientific study of those laws.
If the universe were not orderly... would anything last long enough for advanced life to evolve?
You are wasting your time arguing with the Deluded One. He belongs to a cult that *worships* Chaos.

What else would you expect from a raw-boned man in a dress?

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#71722 Jan 22, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>You are wasting your time arguing with the Deluded One. He belongs to a cult that *worships* Chaos.
What else would you expect from a raw-boned man in a dress?
Oh yeah, still waiting for the evidence to your assertion here, or are you going to admit you are just lying?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#71723 Jan 22, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a subjective argument from your point of view....the question was directed at me...I gave an honest opinion from what posts I read.
As did I. The difference being the facts support my case. When I'm being subjective I'll let people know.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#71724 Jan 22, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
So "religiosity" would be a natural construct of the human mind that transcends all ancient and present day cultures...what purpose would it serve in terms of evolution?...surly not one of evolutionary survival.
Actually yes, one of evolutionary survival - develop a set of cultural practices encouraging others to participate. Co-operation leads to survival advantages. Those who do not involve themselves in any of those groups may be considered an outcast and be at a survival disadvantage.

This is the very reason why religions exist today, despite having a lack of scientific evidence to back them up.
xxxooxxx wrote:
"religiosity" would seem to me, to be directly related to a higher perception of reality....
Your personal subjective opinion is irrelevant.
xxxooxxx wrote:
No mention of great apes, or monkeys, or any animal for that matter in this article practicing religiosity....why?
They lack the ability to communicate in abstract forms.
xxxooxxx wrote:
It would seem that if we were so closely related as implied by the evolution theory, then religiosity would be readily apparent in the animal kingdom. I cannot even think of one example...can you?
It would seem that way only to the incredulous. It is even quite possible that some apes may have religious ideas of their own, but they unfortunately aren't able to communicate their ideas to their brethren. Dolphins might however, but their language is simply far too complex for humans to understand.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#71725 Jan 22, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
Can't have order without chaos...or chaos without order.
...relative terms.
Subjective terms.

The claim that "order" implies "intelligence" is a flawed argument. Since Earth is the ONLY known place with life does that mean the rest of the universe is chaotic? Or if it also shows order despite a lack of life then life itself is not evidence of an intervening intelligence, in which case "order" is simply the natural physical constants of our particular expansion phase. Other universes will also be "ordered" but simply have different physical constants. And as always in each case an intervening intelligence will be an undemonstrated assumption. Perhaps possible. But undemonstrated.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#71726 Jan 22, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
So "religiosity" would be a natural construct of the human mind that transcends all ancient and present day cultures...what purpose would it serve in terms of evolution?...surly not one of evolutionary survival.
"religiosity" would seem to me, to be directly related to a higher perception of reality....
No mention of great apes, or monkeys, or any animal for that matter in this article practicing religiosity....why?
It would seem that if we were so closely related as implied by the evolution theory, then religiosity would be readily apparent in the animal kingdom. I cannot even think of one example...can you?
( The praying mantis might be an exception...but I don't think that would that really count?....do you?...lol
Yes you are right but I don't think religion is necessary for one to achieve a higher perception of reality. I'm not religious but I'm spiritual. There is a difference.

Animals don't have an awareness like humans do. Have you seen one get high? If they did who knows what could happen. lol

Although I consider animals to be somewhat spiritual. They do mourn for the dead and do burial rituals. Elephants are one good example of that. It's just in a different level than humans.

The point is delusions may have resulted from altered consciousness. The pharaohs of Egypt believed they were reincarnate of the Gods. And I believe they tried substances to achieve such altered states. Heard of presences of drugs in mummies?



“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#71727 Jan 22, 2013
*presence
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#71728 Jan 22, 2013
Cybele wrote:
Animals don't have an awareness like humans do.
Indeed, often their awareness is better. That's why many animals have better senses of hearing, taste, touch, smell and eyesight. It's quite common for animals to flee storms long before we have any clue what's coming.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#71729 Jan 22, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed, often their awareness is better. That's why many animals have better senses of hearing, taste, touch, smell and eyesight. It's quite common for animals to flee storms long before we have any clue what's coming.
I agree.
neutral observer

Lake Worth, FL

#71730 Jan 22, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Subjective terms.

The claim that "order" implies "intelligence" is a flawed argument. Since Earth is the ONLY known place with life does that mean the rest of the universe is chaotic? Or if it also shows order despite a lack of life then life itself is not evidence of an intervening intelligence, in which case "order" is simply the natural physical constants of our particular expansion phase. Other universes will also be "ordered" but simply have different physical constants. And as always in each case an intervening intelligence will be an undemonstrated assumption. Perhaps possible. But undemonstrated.
You assume that intelligence requires consciousness? Look at the complexity of our DNA. That complexity hardly suggests that we were constructed by an all knowing being.

There is an intelligence to the universe and to nature...

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#71731 Jan 22, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Subjective terms.
The claim that "order" implies "intelligence" is a flawed argument. Since Earth is the ONLY known place with life does that mean the rest of the universe is chaotic? Or if it also shows order despite a lack of life then life itself is not evidence of an intervening intelligence, in which case "order" is simply the natural physical constants of our particular expansion phase. Other universes will also be "ordered" but simply have different physical constants. And as always in each case an intervening intelligence will be an undemonstrated assumption. Perhaps possible. But undemonstrated.
read the statement dude...I did not say or imply intelligence....I said that order and chaos are relative...gaseous nebulae are consider chaotic in relationship to a star before it is formed, but consider orderly if compared to space dust that is uncondensed.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#71732 Jan 22, 2013
neutral observer wrote:
<quoted text>
You assume that intelligence requires consciousness? Look at the complexity of our DNA. That complexity hardly suggests that we were constructed by an all knowing being.
I agree. There is no evidence to support that.
neutral observer wrote:
There is an intelligence to the universe and to nature...
I disagree. There is no evidence to support that.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#71733 Jan 22, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
read the statement dude...I did not say or imply intelligence....I said that order and chaos are relative...gaseous nebulae are consider chaotic in relationship to a star before it is formed, but consider orderly if compared to space dust that is uncondensed.
Fair enough.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#71734 Jan 22, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually yes, one of evolutionary survival - develop a set of cultural practices encouraging others to participate. Co-operation leads to survival advantages. Those who do not involve themselves in any of those groups may be considered an outcast and be at a survival disadvantage.
This is the very reason why religions exist today, despite having a lack of scientific evidence to back them up.
<quoted text>
Your personal subjective opinion is irrelevant.
<quoted text>
They lack the ability to communicate in abstract forms.
<quoted text>
It would seem that way only to the incredulous. It is even quite possible that some apes may have religious ideas of their own, but they unfortunately aren't able to communicate their ideas to their brethren. Dolphins might however, but their language is simply far too complex for humans to understand.
Actually yes, one of evolutionary survival - develop a set of cultural practices encouraging others to participate. Co-operation leads to survival advantages. Those who do not involve themselves in any of those groups may be considered an outcast and be at a survival disadvantage.

cultural participation works just as well without religion...so this would Imply a different reason.

(Not to mention religious wars which is detrimental to the species as a whole)
neutral observer

Lake Worth, FL

#71735 Jan 22, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree. There is no evidence to support that.
?????

It is semantics... not evidence.

There is an intelligence in how the universe operates. That does not imply that there is an intelligence guiding it.

Two different uses of the word.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#71736 Jan 22, 2013
neutral observer wrote:
<quoted text>
?????
It is semantics... not evidence.
There is an intelligence in how the universe operates. That does not imply that there is an intelligence guiding it.
Two different uses of the word.
If you know anything at all about psychology... the refusal to acknowledge an obvious intelligent process, is entirely ego based.

For example, the refusal to acknowledge Native Americans as a people by European settlers, because this would be detrimental to their material gain.

In other words, science can't claim ownership to a Universe that's already owned....lol

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