Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

Since: Apr 12

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#71538 Jan 21, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>The definition of micro and macro-evolution from that link is incorrect or misused. lol
Pretty impressive you claiming to know more then the Evolution Team at Berkeley.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#71539 Jan 21, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
In order for me to find the answer to how life started, I must know where I came from (other than from my parents). I'm starting to wonder if there was an external force behind my existence.
OK, if that isn't anything your parents can take credit for, it does sound like a possible angle for attention. What the cynic and the scientist would both probably ask is "What makes YOU so special?" If we all aren't privy to your perceptions, why so? And what would you have to gain by sharing your patchwork experiences?

Since: Jun 12

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#71540 Jan 21, 2013
Thomas Robertson wrote:
Thomas Robertson wrote:
I realize that the question was addressed to someone else, but what would you consider irrefutable evidence?
Xxxooxxx wrote:
personal experience and observation.
I don’t know about Drew Smith, but I have heard lots of testimonials from mainline Christians.
But I have also heard testimonials from members of many religious groups which mainline Christians tend to regard as false.
How do I know which ones to listen to and which ones not to listen to?
Which ever one stands true in your heart...I would guess.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#71541 Jan 21, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Pretty impressive you claiming to know more then the Evolution Team at Berkeley.
Pretty unimpressive when people refuse to respond to people who aren't registered on Topix.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#71542 Jan 21, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>You have "full knowledge" of how God created everything? Sorry but the Genesis story isn't complete either.
Where exactly do I claim that I have full knowledge of how God created everything? I know enough to not try explain Gods Creation as "GODDIDIT with magic"

Since: Jun 12

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#71543 Jan 21, 2013
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, I'm fairly sure that science doesn't worry itself with the existential. Evidence that is shareable and reproducible is the standard.
So are you implying that if science didn't tell you that you existed, you would be in doubt?

I must say...you are dedicated.

Since: Apr 12

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#71544 Jan 21, 2013
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry, I'm still not seeing this. Fish came from a common ancestor. Reptiles came from a common ancestor. Mammals came from a common ancestor. It just so happens that at some point in time, the common ancestor stopped being defined as one type of species and started being classified as another.

At one point in time, human ancestors were Australopithecenes, and over time, along with a few branches that didn't persist, a few other steps along the way produced modern man. We don't have to give the species the variety of names that we do, but it's all the same process at work.

The terms macro and micro don't mean much other than maybe to describe the creation of new species. We don't observe the creation of new species simply because nowhere near enough time has passed for us to actually witness such events. It's entirely possible for species such as bonobos and chimpanzees to interbreed, although not very successfully or that often. They have as much as 1.5 million years of separation in their blood lines, the geography discourages interbreeding and the behavior of the two species discourages the possibility as well.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/...
Created kinds are organisms that are defined by creation biology as sharing a common ancestry. The phrase refers to the Genesis account of the creation week during which God created many kinds of plants and animals. They are also referred to as "original kinds," "Genesis kinds," and more formally by creation scientists as baramin The term barmin was coined in 1941 by Frank Marsh from the Hebrew words bara (create) and min (kind). The study of baramin (known as Baraminology) is a rapidly growing field of creation science involved with the identification of the created kinds.[1]

The concept of the "created kind" originates from the biblical book of Genesis where it is first mentioned in chapter 1.

"The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. There was evening and there was morning, a third day... Then God said,'Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.' God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. God blessed them, saying,'Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.' There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. Then God said,'Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind'; and it was so."Genesis 1:12-24
In contrast to the evolutionary principle of common ancestry, creation biologists argue that organisms were created in a finite number of discrete forms as described in the Bible, which subsequently diversified through speciation and microevolution. There is much uncertainty about what exactly the Bible means when it talks of "kinds".

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#71545 Jan 21, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>OMG. So God is not invisible?!
Is this a new concept for you?
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#71546 Jan 21, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
So are you implying that if science didn't tell you that you existed, you would be in doubt?
I must say...you are dedicated.
Well, let's say that I don't need Descartes in order to think for myself.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#71547 Jan 21, 2013
Thomas Robertson wrote:
Let’s apply the xxxooxxx test right here.
Have the Creationists on this forum been more respectful than the Evolutionists?
Have the Creationists argued more intelligently than the Evolutionists?
Have the Creationists been better listeners than the Evolutionists?
Have the Creationists on this forum been more respectful than the Evolutionists?

I think so.

Have the Creationists argued more intelligently than the Evolutionists?

I think so.

Have the Creationists been better listeners than the Evolutionists?

If that implies a change in mindset...I would think not.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#71548 Jan 21, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Pretty impressive you claiming to know more then the Evolution Team at Berkeley.
No I'm not claiming anything.

What if macro-evolution is a continuation of micro-evolution, for millions of generations?

Since: Apr 12

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#71549 Jan 21, 2013
Thomas Robertson wrote:
IÂ’m accustomed to trying to instruct Creationists on Evolution, but I never thought IÂ’d ever had to instruct a Creationist on Creationism,

The Dude wrote:
If the Ark story is true then "MACRO"-evolution definitely DID happen

Langooliers wrote:
No sorry I have to burst your bubble.

ThatÂ’s not The DudeÂ’s bubble, thatÂ’s a Creationist bubble.
It has just been presented right here on this forum—and by a Creationist, no less.
In 1941, Frank L. Marsh recognized that it would be an impossible task for Noah and his seven trusty crewmen to take all one million species on board and keep them all fed.
So Marsh invented a new model which he called “baraminology.”
This model by-passes all that intellectual tedium about phylums and genuses and species, and instead classifies all animals as “kinds.”
He couldn’t translate the word “kind” into Latin, because the Latin equivalent has already been taken with the word “species.”
So he translated it into Hebrew instead.

Today, Duane Gish embraces that concept, also calling it “basic kind” or “Genesis kind.”

Langoliers wrote:
Macro evolution is one "Kind of animal or plant completely changing to another Kind" there is no proof of this ever happening.

You mean youÂ’re going to make NoahÂ’s family feed all 35 species of dogs, all 850 species of bats, and all 280,000 species of worms? ThatÂ’s cruel of you!
Tommy that's so funny! What a card you are.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#71550 Jan 21, 2013
and I might add...that the votes are in on the first post of this forum.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#71551 Jan 21, 2013
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, if that isn't anything your parents can take credit for, it does sound like a possible angle for attention. What the cynic and the scientist would both probably ask is "What makes YOU so special?" If we all aren't privy to your perceptions, why so? And what would you have to gain by sharing your patchwork experiences?
What makes me special is something I don't understand.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#71552 Jan 21, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Is this a new concept for you?
of course God would be invisible...in essence, he is spiritual in nature.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#71553 Jan 21, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Is this a new concept for you?
Yes and no. What makes you think he's NOT invisible?
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#71554 Jan 21, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Created kinds are organisms that are defined by creation biology as sharing a common ancestry. The phrase refers to the Genesis account of the creation week during which God created many kinds of plants and animals. They are also referred to as "original kinds," "Genesis kinds," and more formally by creation scientists as baramin The term barmin was coined in 1941 by Frank Marsh from the Hebrew words bara (create) and min (kind). The study of baramin (known as Baraminology) is a rapidly growing field of creation science involved with the identification of the created kinds.[1]
The concept of the "created kind" originates from the biblical book of Genesis where it is first mentioned in chapter 1.
"The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. There was evening and there was morning, a third day... Then God said,'Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.' God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. God blessed them, saying,'Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.' There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. Then God said,'Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind'; and it was so."Genesis 1:12-24
In contrast to the evolutionary principle of common ancestry, creation biologists argue that organisms were created in a finite number of discrete forms as described in the Bible, which subsequently diversified through speciation and microevolution. There is much uncertainty about what exactly the Bible means when it talks of "kinds".
That still doesn't really dismiss the idea of what you call "macro" evolution. The probability of witnessing a major phylum or class of species in the making is highly improbable for any species.

The existing biosphere is already filled with aggressively competitive species. It would likely take a major extinction event to allow new classes, such as birds, to propagate to the point of being regarded as a new class. If it weren't for the fact that the rest of the dinosaurs are extinct, due to an extinction event, they might still not be classified that way.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#71555 Jan 21, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
What makes me special is something I don't understand.
Umm...not really giving the idea much for anyone think about, eh?:)

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#71556 Jan 21, 2013
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
Umm...not really giving the idea much for anyone think about, eh?:)
I have hidden powers that I know. LOL!

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#71557 Jan 21, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>No I'm not claiming anything.

What if macro-evolution is a continuation of micro-evolution, for millions of generations?
Cybele:
"The definition of micro and macro-evolution from that link is incorrect or misused. lol"

That link was Berkeley's evolution teams web page.

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