Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

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“what we think we become”

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#71087
Jan 16, 2013
 
xxxooxxx wrote:
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and just how would homosexuality fit into the evolutionary scheme, other than population control?... when one of the most fundamental idea of evolution is the procreation of a species? In fact I would say that is unsupported more in the ideas of evolution, than any religion.
http://www.thegodmurders.com/id74.html

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#71088
Jan 16, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
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It has something to do with what Jung called it synchronicity. Have you ever read a book and experienced something that is related to what you're reading?
Have you ever read the book, or seen the movie Sphere by Michael Crichton?

It's loosely based on the same concept.

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#71089
Jan 16, 2013
 
The term synchronicity is coined by Jung to express a concept that belongs to him. It is about acausal connection of two or more psycho-physic phenomena. This concept was inspired to him by a patient's case that was in situation of impasse in treatment. Her exaggerate rationalism (animus inflation) was holding her back from assimilating unconscious materials. One night, the patient dreamt a golden scarab - cetonia aurata. The next day, during the psychotherapy session, a real insect this time, hit against the Jung's cabinet window. Jung caught it and discovered surprisingly that it was a golden scarab; a very rare presence for that climate.

http://www.carl-jung.net/synchronicity.html

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#71090
Jan 16, 2013
 
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you ever read the book, or seen the movie Sphere by Michael Crichton?
It's loosely based on the same concept.
I've heard of it but hasn't read the novel or seen the movie. From the synopsis, it looks more like time travel phenomena which can actually be experienced in a synchronized situation. It's like watching an old movie and it coincides with your reality at the moment.

Wow. We actually have something in common after all. ;-)

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#71091
Jan 16, 2013
 
*haven't

ah who cares about typos

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#71092
Jan 16, 2013
 
so basically what I'm getting hear is (more or less) subconscious projection from mind to nature.(in scientific terms)

Science would call this a simple coincidence...I believe it's metaphysical phenomenon that "proves" the underlying connection of the mind to the natural world.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#71093
Jan 16, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
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Homosexuality is genetic. It has something to do with hormones and how the brain responds to stimuli that produces arousal. This trait can be passed on. Although straight people also engage in homosexual behavior maybe out of curiosity. Sometimes it's a phase that one goes through when trying to learn about one's own sexual orientation. You know 'experimenting' while developing the id, ego and super-ego of the mind.
Autism, OCD, and other psychological disorders are anomalies or conditions associated with disabilities that disrupts normal mental functions. Being gay doesn't make one mentally handicapped. There is no medication for homosexuality that makes them attracted to the opposite sex. Gays aren't placed in special ed classes like how children are with mental disorders.
It is a trait that others consider abnormal. But it's more social and personality problem than anything. Perhaps it started out as a deviant behavior. But it has evolved into being a normal trait. It's in all cultures. There are even gods and goddesses that were homosexuals. lol
epi-marks
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/12/...
I always understood that during pregnancy the woman get's stressed beyond the point of caring anymore. Stress-hormone levels drop accordingly particularly during the phase where the traits are established.
Usually it is environment, like an abusive or overbearing husband that sets the switch of. The point is that any and every couple can have a kid that has a greater same sex like or arousal.
When the conditions are right that is. Culture has nothing to with it. But we will find that f.i. after wars the number of kids born with this preference is higher.
Furthermore homosexuality or other rare behaviours, though hard wired in the individual are fringe genetic occurances.
But there is always room at the edge so to say.

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#71094
Jan 16, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I've heard of it but hasn't read the novel or seen the movie. From the synopsis, it looks more like time travel phenomena which can actually be experienced in a synchronized situation. It's like watching an old movie and it coincides with your reality at the moment.
Wow. We actually have something in common after all. ;-)
you still haven't went into detail of about your thought tranference experience...I'm really interested in that sort of thing, as you might have guessed...lol

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#71095
Jan 16, 2013
 

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xxxooxxx wrote:
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you still haven't went into detail of about your thought tranference experience...I'm really interested in that sort of thing, as you might have guessed...lol
Ok. There is this voice in my head that sort of communicates with me. On my way out, I grabbed the book I was reading. I got in my car and heard the voice said "happy." I'm like...ok. Then while waiting in the parking lot, I read the next chapter. Along the lines, I read the one that says "I'm not sure if 'happy' is the right word..." When wrapping up on my reading, I looked at the page number so I know which page I left off. It was on page 69. There is a significance of the number 69 to me, something about my birth date and all other coincidences. lol.

The book is about this spirit being who keeps coming in this girl's dreams. One day he begged the god Hades to bring him to life as human temporarily so he can experience this girl as he doesn't possess emotions in the realm of dreams. I personally chose this book after having a strange dream one night. What do you think?
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#71096
Jan 16, 2013
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
It's the product of natural selection.
You're mistaken when you compare same sex sexual behavior to psychological problems. That demonstrates your Western cultural upbringing and your inability to separate biological phenomena from your learned cultural construction of sexuality.
Your comparison of humans and bonobos is rife with ignorance.
First, behaviors that are shared among related species demonstrate phylogeny - shared ancestry. If a behavior is present in related species, it was present in the ancestral species. Therefore same sex sexual behavior predates humans.
Second, humans quite easily engage in bigamous relationships. Where to begin? More than a third of the world's cultures are polygamous. Many are polyandrous. In all cultures, strict monogamy, with no partner cheating, is a rarity. Something like 85% of all marriages have one partner have an extra-marital affair in America. Clearly, humans are not very good at being monogamous.
Third, baboons and bonobos have very different social structures and mating patterns. Humans and bonobos are more related to each other than either is to baboons - humans and bonobos are equally related to baboons, actually, and more closely related to each other. It's no surprise that the bonobos mating patterns are more similar to human mating patterns than they are to baboon ones. So the main thrust of your argument is buried in ignorance.
Fourth, societal laws have little to do with biological reality.
Then... you're basically saying that you don't have a legal argument and you're making an assumption that bonobo behavior is closer to human behavior. Genetically, there are much closer similarities between bonobos and humans so that should be true, but you're not making any counter argument that dismisses the baboon analogy based on niche.

You don't have to demonstrate a difference between acquired behavior and innate behavior. You just have to tell me why there's a compelling genetic reason to recognize homosexuality as a true adaptation and not just a side effect of human evolutionary strategy. The world has to deal with a huge amount of real genetic diversity. Forget the hypothetical.

You're just implying a non-sequitur that all abandonment of social rules is the human norm. I disagree. Law is social rules. Your logic isn't just flawed, it's contradictory. You're ignoring the reality that OUR culture rejects bigamy. We aren't in a battle to liberate America from the bigaphobic, are we? You're trying to troll for a sound bite. It isn't happening.
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#71097
Jan 16, 2013
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
1. You're living in the past if you believe such things.
2. OCD is not related to Tourettes or Autism. You don't seem to know anything about psychology and appear to be spouting nonsense.
<quoted text>
Your politicizing it by making false, unsupportable claims to medicine.
<quoted text>
Huh? You are now claiming that OCD people want to suffer from mental disorders???
What a stupid, hurtful claim.
<quoted text>
Now you are claiming that OCD people are acting out fantasies?!? And they're criminal???
You quite clearly know nothing about psychology but love to spout BS.
<quoted text>
Your disagreement with scientists is irrelevant. You've demonstrated amazingly well how little you understand science and how bigoted you are.
We simply don't care what you think, to be brutally honest. Your opinion is uninformed, bitterly biased and without self reflexivity. Yes, I mean refelxvity and not reflection. I'm not surprised that you don't know the difference.
<quoted text>
Wow. Total ignorance.
First, bonobos are not passive. They're highly social, political beings, who live in complex societies.
Second, baboons do not perform "symbolic homosexuality," whatever the hell that is. You just made this nonsense up. Baboons also do not have "dominance" as you describe it.
Baboons live in multifemale, multimale societies that are matrilineal. They have a ranked social hierarchy, with high and low status families led by socially dominant mothers. Families are ranked in this order: mother, youngest child, next oldest child all the way to oldest daughter.
Male social hierarchy is dependent upon males being in good social standing with the females. Baboon society is matrilocal - males migrate out from their natal families. Males must therefore move into new troops and, through patience, social maneuvering and poise, earn the respect of females to attain high rank. Or not.
Listen: I'll be blunt. I'm an evolutionary anthropologist. I study this stuff and teach it at a tier 1 research university. So shut the f*ck up with your bs. I know this like the back of my hand and you're lying through your teeth.
If you want to know more about bonobos, read Shirley Strum. If you want to know more about primate homosexual behavior, read Paul Vasey.
Whoops! Parsing and being judgmental. No references. No science. Lot's of bluster though.

Read what I said. I said that obessive-compulsives want to purge the fixation. They don't like it. They just can't stop themselves.

Now, start over without the bluster and the pointless command to read some researcher. You want to make a point? I won't indulge you until you structure your arguments and pay full attention to mine.

You want to parse out sound bites and we can demonstrate obsessive-compulsive up close and personal. Gonna spell-check too? You MUST DOMINATE! YES!!!! ;)

“Which "god"?”

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#71098
Jan 16, 2013
 
Totally off topic... I don't have a lot to say here but I like reading the posts, it's nice to see rational conversations on topix.
<3
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#71099
Jan 16, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Homosexuality is genetic. It has something to do with hormones and how the brain responds to stimuli that produces arousal. This trait can be passed on. Although straight people also engage in homosexual behavior maybe out of curiosity. Sometimes it's a phase that one goes through when trying to learn about one's own sexual orientation. You know 'experimenting' while developing the id, ego and super-ego of the mind.
Autism, OCD, and other psychological disorders are anomalies or conditions associated with disabilities that disrupts normal mental functions. Being gay doesn't make one mentally handicapped. There is no medication for homosexuality that makes them attracted to the opposite sex. Gays aren't placed in special ed classes like how children are with mental disorders.
It is a trait that others consider abnormal. But it's more social and personality problem than anything. Perhaps it started out as a deviant behavior. But it has evolved into being a normal trait. It's in all cultures. There are even gods and goddesses that were homosexuals. lol
Epileptics, Tourette's patients and others aren't considered mentally handicapped in that way either. I never claimed that gays were mentally handicapped in a cognitive way. They have a medical symptom which may be the result of biology or environment. Some may have genetic reasons for the symptom, but not all. A lot of effort was made to find the "gay" gene. Nothing was found.

Freud's abstractions are awful. Even modern psychology is pathetic. Here's a good government source quote.

"The accuracy of psychiatric diagnosis was the highest for cognitive disorders 60%, followed by depression 50% and anxiety disorders 46%, whereas the accuracy of diagnosing psychosis was 0%."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3...

Well, who's to say who is political and who isn't? The question is, if homosexuality is a medical problem, then is it sensible to address it constitutionally? Race? Sex? Part of the human condition and consistent with evolution. Religion? Sexual preference? Not so absolute.

We protect the medically afflicted. We don't nurture their conditions.

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#71100
Jan 16, 2013
 

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xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
and just how would homosexuality fit into the evolutionary scheme, other than population control?... when one of the most fundamental idea of evolution is the procreation of a species? In fact I would say that is unsupported more in the ideas of evolution, than any religion.
The problem you are having with trying to understand homosexuality is twofold. First, you interpret all sexual behavior through the lenses of Western culture, which divides sexuality into homo and hetero. It further sees sexual behavior as a means to procreate, rather than looking at a bigger picture.

Second, you falsely assume that the evolutionary purpose of sexual behavior is limited to producing children.

Let me ask you some simple questions: why do most people have sex? Why do most people enjoy self or partner masturbation? Why do animals have sex?

More difficult question: Do you know what and how oxytocin works?

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#71101
Jan 16, 2013
 
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
Whoops! Parsing and being judgmental. No references. No science. Lot's of bluster though.
Read what I said. I said that obessive-compulsives want to purge the fixation. They don't like it. They just can't stop themselves.
Now, start over without the bluster and the pointless command to read some researcher. You want to make a point? I won't indulge you until you structure your arguments and pay full attention to mine.
You want to parse out sound bites and we can demonstrate obsessive-compulsive up close and personal. Gonna spell-check too? You MUST DOMINATE! YES!!!! ;)
False. I corrected your ridiculous statements and fabrications. Then I pointed you to people who, if you read them, would enlighten you about the strange things you claim. They're scientists.

You have only succeeded in writing a lot of projection above. You haven't produced a single cogent argument based on any science whatsoever. You are, however, quite good at making garbage up.

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#71102
Jan 16, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok. There is this voice in my head that sort of communicates with me. On my way out, I grabbed the book I was reading. I got in my car and heard the voice said "happy." I'm like...ok. Then while waiting in the parking lot, I read the next chapter. Along the lines, I read the one that says "I'm not sure if 'happy' is the right word..." When wrapping up on my reading, I looked at the page number so I know which page I left off. It was on page 69. There is a significance of the number 69 to me, something about my birth date and all other coincidences. lol.
The book is about this spirit being who keeps coming in this girl's dreams. One day he begged the god Hades to bring him to life as human temporarily so he can experience this girl as he doesn't possess emotions in the realm of dreams. I personally chose this book after having a strange dream one night. What do you think?
interesting to say the least...I would say that maybe the book choose you by way of synchronicity...and there was a important message for you contained somewhere within the book...you should know it when you find it...I found it's best not to really try to search for it, but try just reading like you normally would, and if indeed there is,it will present itself...that's been my experience anyway.

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#71103
Jan 16, 2013
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem you are having with trying to understand homosexuality is twofold. First, you interpret all sexual behavior through the lenses of Western culture, which divides sexuality into homo and hetero. It further sees sexual behavior as a means to procreate, rather than looking at a bigger picture.
Second, you falsely assume that the evolutionary purpose of sexual behavior is limited to producing children.
Let me ask you some simple questions: why do most people have sex? Why do most people enjoy self or partner masturbation? Why do animals have sex?
More difficult question: Do you know what and how oxytocin works?
no...the truth is anyone who comes on forums that aren't about homosexuality, to promote homosexuality, are seeking to promote a political agenda for their own personal satisfaction...I could care less about what you think is right.
there's really only one of two reasons that you are here...
1. to intimidate
2. your looking to be accepted.
I find that most seek to intimidate.

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#71104
Jan 16, 2013
 

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anonymous wrote:
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Epileptics, Tourette's patients and others aren't considered mentally handicapped in that way either. I never claimed that gays were mentally handicapped in a cognitive way. They have a medical symptom which may be the result of biology or environment. Some may have genetic reasons for the symptom, but not all. A lot of effort was made to find the "gay" gene. Nothing was found.
Freud's abstractions are awful. Even modern psychology is pathetic. Here's a good government source quote.
"The accuracy of psychiatric diagnosis was the highest for cognitive disorders 60%, followed by depression 50% and anxiety disorders 46%, whereas the accuracy of diagnosing psychosis was 0%."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3...
Well, who's to say who is political and who isn't? The question is, if homosexuality is a medical problem, then is it sensible to address it constitutionally? Race? Sex? Part of the human condition and consistent with evolution. Religion? Sexual preference? Not so absolute.
We protect the medically afflicted. We don't nurture their conditions.
I don't know what your issue is with homosexuals. Is it because you hate to be called a fag? I don't have to explain more of what I just stated because it's common sense. Scientists haven't found a gay gene, well it doesn't mean it doesn't exist or should they exist in the first place? Can they identify the gene responsible for what kind of men I'm attracted to or my favorite color? It's all about chemistry and what turns you on. What about actors who play gay roles? Do they have that gay gene? Homosexuality is a genetic trait and I don't think it's a fuse in chromosome or any abnormality in the genes or any of that sort. It's both psychological and hormonal I would think.

"Both classes of male and female hormones are present in both males and females alike, but in vastly different amounts."
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#71105
Jan 16, 2013
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
False. I corrected your ridiculous statements and fabrications. Then I pointed you to people who, if you read them, would enlighten you about the strange things you claim. They're scientists.
You have only succeeded in writing a lot of projection above. You haven't produced a single cogent argument based on any science whatsoever. You are, however, quite good at making garbage up.
Then you have nothing to say other than your arrogant opinion. OK.

Not science. You claim to be one? Hmm..

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#71106
Jan 16, 2013
 

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anonymous wrote:
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Epileptics, Tourette's patients and others aren't considered mentally handicapped in that way either. I never claimed that gays were mentally handicapped in a cognitive way. They have a medical symptom which may be the result of biology or environment. Some may have genetic reasons for the symptom, but not all. A lot of effort was made to find the "gay" gene. Nothing was found.
Freud's abstractions are awful. Even modern psychology is pathetic. Here's a good government source quote.
"The accuracy of psychiatric diagnosis was the highest for cognitive disorders 60%, followed by depression 50% and anxiety disorders 46%, whereas the accuracy of diagnosing psychosis was 0%."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3...
Well, who's to say who is political and who isn't? The question is, if homosexuality is a medical problem, then is it sensible to address it constitutionally? Race? Sex? Part of the human condition and consistent with evolution. Religion? Sexual preference? Not so absolute.
We protect the medically afflicted. We don't nurture their conditions.
I fail to see your point about psychiatric disorders? What does the link even have to do with homosexuality? Homosexuality is not a medical problem. And you say who is to say who is political or not? Why don't you ask Bernanke if he is closet gay and what his political views on gay rights? lol

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