Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.
Comments
66,881 - 66,900 of 114,800 Comments Last updated 1 hr ago

“I have upset the hand of god”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Threats pending

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71165
Jan 16, 2013
 
Drew Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
If homosexuality is not a medical problem, why isn't it acceptable for same-sex marriages to be recognized as legal marriage in the same way as opposite-sex marriage?
Drew, this is the 21 Century isn't it. After reading the medical condition comment, I thought maybe we were back in the Dark Ages.

I believe that the APA removed homosexuality as a mental illness from the DSM in 1974. Someone can correct me on the date. But if that wise body of mental health practitioners doesn't consider it a medical issue, I can't support some laymen in doing the same. I wouldn't anyway, but it is nice to have medical authority on your side.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71166
Jan 16, 2013
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Vasey didn't come up with that one, or most of the others. He criticizes some of them.
But, yeah, that one has some bearing - large brained animals have to practice through play to become good at their skills. In some cultures, homosexual sex is a kind of play.
However, I find the increasing bonds between individuals more compelling.
it's play time! lol
anonymous

Franklin, PA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71167
Jan 16, 2013
 
Drew Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
A relatively tiny percentage of the population have red hair. Does that make them "deviants"?
How is homosexuality a "contradiction" of biology? It occurs in nature.
I'm not aware of any mechanics of gratification that aren't also used by heterosexuals.
So no, I see nothing in your argument that supports a claim of "deviant". And therefore, I do see evidence that supports my claim that you're a homophobe.
<quoted text>
That voted in favor of same-sex marriage? Make that *3*: Maine, Maryland, and Washington.
Washington is the 13th largest state.
Maryland is the 19th largest state.
Maine is the 41st largest state.
You're not very strong in geography, are you?
Maybe you need to spend more time studying geography and less time drooling on your keyboard engaged in homophobic rants.
Red hair is going to be red, no matter how you behave. That's no analogy.

As far as being in the minority is concerned, yes, you might call that deviant, but not in places like Ireland. Do you want to complain about the creation of the word "deviant" as a hate crime? THAT's what I call deviant!

OK, my bad. I googled for the states that voted for the change and only got the two. I'm surprised to think that Maryland has that high a population but it doesn't change much. 3 out of 50 states and, let's face it, the population centers are New York and California. No matter how you add the numbers, they don't represent a revolution.

Now, as far as unconventional methods of gratification are concerned, you can't win that one. You and your gang are already reduced to childish putdowns about licking windows and such. You can't dig yourself out of that hole.(ummm... don't get too imaginative with that metaphor!) I said "USE IT!" Yep! You used it! You're twisted up with contradictions of shame and pride.

THAT is what I call "deviant".

There's nothing homophobe about it. You're twisted up like a character from The Divine Comedy, but I'm not a Christian. How you get out of your hell is not my problem.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71168
Jan 16, 2013
 
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Meh. Like I said, it was years ago.
Is there a more current theory?
Honestly, there is no solid biological theory that explains homosexuality. However, good history, anthropology, sociology, primatology and evolutionary theory strongly suggest that the Western cultural constructions of homo/heterosexuality are not human universals, let alone universal.

Every culture has its "way of doing sex" and the meaning and significance that is attached to sex. Ancient Greece did it very differently than contemporary Western culture does, the West of 150 years ago was different, contemporary Japan differs - as do cultures around the world.

Anthropology makes a difference between "real" and "ideal" culture.

"Ideal" Western culture divides its sexuality into a binary - so individuals fall on one side or the other. I have no idea why any given individual would be gay or straight. But "real" people in Western culture aren't so black and white - there's people who claim the homosexual identity yet have sex with the opposite sex, those who claim the heterosexual identity yet have sex with the same sex, those who don't have sex, those who claim the bisexual identity and have sex with one, or both sexes, notions of bicurious and so on.

So human behavior is more flexible than "ideal" culture. So the human universal for sexual behavior is even more flexible.

Roughly 10% of Papua New Guinea tribes "know" that heterosexual sex is dangerous and unhealthy - they seek to avoid it at all costs. They have elaborate rituals for passing masculinity on to younger generations that I'll not write here :)(the Etoro is the most written about of these groups).

Some North American Native cultures had 3 and even 4 genders. These in-between genders could marry the same-sex (they were considered different genders, so cultural categories were not only sex-based). They were also thought to have different traits and qualities than the main genders.

Most Japanese "gei" men prefer not to use the label "homosexuality" since they do not adopt that sexual identity - coming out is not important, being gay at all times is not important. They just want to hang out with other men and have relationships with them - but they don't want to bring that into their work or family life.

There are many cultures that don't differentiate between gay and straight. When the WHO was making its rounds around the world to warn of HIV, the message was lost on these groups because they thought that "sex only happens between men and women. What happens between men and men is just play." So...they mistakenly thought they couldn't get HIV when engaging in sexual behavior between the same sex because for them, that behavior wasn't sex.

And more...so the Western binary works in this culture because of brain development through enculturation, but it doesn't make sense outside of Western culture - and therefore it is not surprising that biological explanations of homosexuality have turned up no evidence to support them.

To answer "why homosexuality?" we have to use history, anthropology, sociology, evolution and analyze the behavior at various levels of biology: phylogenetic explanations (evolutionary lineage), adaptive explanations (this mechanism solves what problems?), developmental explanations (enculturation, neuroscience, etc) and immediate explanations (motivation, desire, oxytocin, etc).

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71169
Jan 16, 2013
 
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
False analogy to what? You're posing.
Just answer the question.
No you're asking the wrong question

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71170
Jan 16, 2013
 
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, you're not here to intimidate.
What's so "hahaha" funny?
Just answer the question. Don't set up your choreography first.
I found your description of me funny. I'm a loser, sure. Pedantic, sometimes. Obsessive? Sure. Intimidating? hahaha! I don't think so.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71171
Jan 16, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You screwed up and you ducked. Bad form and a loss right off the start.
How does the quest for gay rights trivialize anyone else' quest? Gay people have rights too, even though you may not think so. When idiots say idiotic things I tend to try to see if they can defend them, they practically never can. Thanks for showing that you cannot defend your idiotic claims.
What have you said here? All rhetoric and no content. What got screwed up what and ducked how?

You're proving my point. Litmus test, bullying, and proof that scientific discipline has nothing to do with most of the people defending Evolution.

Nobody has taken anyone's rights away. But that's not the message, is it?

Come on! Let it all out!

You've lost this debate.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71172
Jan 16, 2013
 

Judged:

1

Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
hahaha!
So...you came here to intimidate?
I came here to procrastinate. I know I am wasting my time trying to explain how reality works to people like you, but to be honest, I don't write for you. I write for others and use you as a foil. The things is, people without religious prejudice aren't going to ask such uninformed questions. So the forums need people like you, with all your biases and strange beliefs to drive conversations.
I used to post links to scientific articles to back up everything I write. Time after time they just get ignored - people with committed belief systems are immune to learning. You guys just ignore the science. So why bother posting the links?
Cheers.
Amusingly, it's invariably the fundies who drag homosexuality into unrelated threads.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71173
Jan 16, 2013
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I found your description of me funny. I'm a loser, sure. Pedantic, sometimes. Obsessive? Sure. Intimidating? hahaha! I don't think so.
I'm sorry but you've lost track. I didn't bring up the word intimidating. xxxoooxxx did.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71174
Jan 16, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
No you're asking the wrong question
The wrong question for what? Allowing you to strike a pose?

This discussion has degraded into a drunken brawl. Some people have claimed that they like intelligent debate, but they really prefer to smile for the camera. I hope they like what they see in the morning.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71175
Jan 16, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
What have you said here? All rhetoric and no content. What got screwed up what and ducked how?
You're proving my point. Litmus test, bullying, and proof that scientific discipline has nothing to do with most of the people defending Evolution.
Nobody has taken anyone's rights away. But that's not the message, is it?
Come on! Let it all out!
You've lost this debate.
Do I have to point out that you ducked when I corrected you for claiming that I had invaded your personal space? I guess so.

And I am not bullying you, I am showing how pathetic your argument is, I guess you might call that bullying I am not.

And you are still the one who wants to apply a litmus test. Hypocrites rarely can see when they are being hypocritical.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71176
Jan 16, 2013
 
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>Yea, OK. I mean sex between humans and animals. I'm not familiar with what word they'd use for that in a court of law. Is that important?
Bestiality, or more precisely, zoophilia.

It's legal in 18 US states.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71177
Jan 16, 2013
 
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
The wrong question for what? Allowing you to strike a pose?
This discussion has degraded into a drunken brawl. Some people have claimed that they like intelligent debate, but they really prefer to smile for the camera. I hope they like what they see in the morning.
Now you're just changing the subject.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71178
Jan 16, 2013
 
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry but you've lost track. I didn't bring up the word intimidating. xxxoooxxx did.
Oh. Well then, I won't have to beat you senseless. grrrrrr!

I mean...I mean, hug! Not beat. Hug! Pardon my Engrish.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71179
Jan 16, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Bestiality, or more precisely, zoophilia.
It's legal in 18 US states.
Uhm...why is it legal?

Should it be legal?

No one cares about the budgies?!?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71180
Jan 16, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Bestiality, or more precisely, zoophilia.
It's legal in 18 US states.
Yep, it used to be legal in my state until this happened:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enumclaw_horse_s...

It was not specifically that it was legal, it was more of a case that no one thought that that sort of law had to be made in the first place.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71181
Jan 16, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Amusingly, it's invariably the fundies who drag homosexuality into unrelated threads.
Yeah. Kind of creepy. I wonder what their obsession is with it. Forbidden fruit?

Level 8

Since: Sep 08

.

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71182
Jan 16, 2013
 

Judged:

1

macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Bestiality, or more precisely, zoophilia.
It's legal in 18 US states.
Gloop!

“I have upset the hand of god”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Threats pending

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71183
Jan 16, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Bestiality, or more precisely, zoophilia.
It's legal in 18 US states.
Are those southern states?

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71184
Jan 16, 2013
 
Drew Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
Until you realize that humans are sometimes raised from birth to adulthood by adults other than merely their biological parents. Imagine the biological benefit of having an additional parent (such as an unmarried uncle or aunt) around to help raise a child or one of their younger siblings.
I see this theory as unlikely. It's based on the idea that sexuality is homo/hetero, which is a Western cultural construction and not a human universal.

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

•••