Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.
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66,361 - 66,380 of 115,247 Comments Last updated 26 min ago

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#70624 Jan 11, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Eventually. When is a function of how much oil reserved are to be discovered.
Actually we will never run out of oil. It will just keep getting more and more expensive. It will eventually get priced off of the market. Though that will not happen for a while. As the price goes up and technology improves what used to be unretrievable will become economical. Even if oil cost $100.00 a gallon there are some uses of it that will still be of value. Driving a car probably will be not one of them at that point.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70626 Jan 11, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, great question!
May I ask you one? Why don't you study this stuff in greater detail - you have good ideas, the answers are waitingforyou!
It's more complex than that. Humans - well, all animals - have mechanisms to detect deleterious mutations and abort developing fetuses.
Our DNA repairing mechanisms work when the entire system is functioning - in viable phenotypes. When the mutations are too severe, the developing organism self-destructs. Also, when the mutations are too severe, they interfere with the ability of the organism to function; so it dies.
Cloning doesn't quite work like that, though I'm sure those systems are operating, too. The main problems with cloning are lie in teleomere length, if I remember correctly. Teleomeres shorten every time a cell reproduces. When they get too short, cells are no longer viable, and you get cellular death, then organ failure. So in older animals, teleomeres are getting shorter - when you clone them, you've started with old teleomeres, giving the clone a limited lifespan.
I'm sure there's more to it than that, but I'm not super familiar with how cloning works. Part of the problem is where you choose your cell - depending on location, cells have only part of your genes active and most of your genome shut off. So, if you clone from the skin cells you're going to have different problems than if you clone from muscle or stem cells.
And, yes, you might have mutation, though I would guess that would be the rarest problem. The largest problems are the ones I mentioned above, plus that somatic cells are simply not chemically cued to reproduce as germline cells. So various parts of them fail in ways that I am not familiar with.
I read that there are environmental factors that affect or damage DNA cells such as UV light and radiation. And also 'electric shock' is one of them. Do you think because in cloning electric shock is administered to the the egg to activate the nucleus or cell division that it damages the DNA causing deleterious mutations?

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70627 Jan 11, 2013
I know DNA damage is different from a mutation but perhaps the electric shock causes both to occur in the DNA.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#70628 Jan 12, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I read that there are environmental factors that affect or damage DNA cells such as UV light and radiation. And also 'electric shock' is one of them. Do you think because in cloning electric shock is administered to the the egg to activate the nucleus or cell division that it damages the DNA causing deleterious mutations?
Yes, environmental effects damage DNA. It's quite possible the electric shock could do something, but whatever effect it has is very likely minimal.

Rather, the problems likely have something to do with the absence of epigenetic cues. Nuclear DNA does not have the methylation that gametic DNA does; most nuclear DNA is simply switched off. The shock turns it back on, so it can build a new individual. However, that individual is built in the absence of the environmental cues that all normal individuals develop because of (not only within).

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#70629 Jan 12, 2013
neutral observer wrote:
<quoted text>
Zionism? That is bs. Our interest in Israel is not really about the Jews. It is about Moral Majority types who really could care less about the Jews (as non Christians the Jews are destined for hell anyway in their religious ideology) but for religious reasons they still support the state of Israel. Even more than the American Jews. A rather bipolar worldview.
No reason to blame it on Jewish zionists or the Israel lobby.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/ 2012/04/05/jews

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#70630 Jan 12, 2013
neutral observer wrote:
<quoted text>
Zionism? That is bs. Our interest in Israel is not really about the Jews. It is about Moral Majority types who really could care less about the Jews (as non Christians the Jews are destined for hell anyway in their religious ideology) but for religious reasons they still support the state of Israel. Even more than the American Jews. A rather bipolar worldview.
No reason to blame it on Jewish zionists or the Israel lobby.
Ofcourse. But they are gradually getting the orientation presently.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#70631 Jan 12, 2013
neutral observer wrote:
<quoted text>
Zionism? That is bs. Our interest in Israel is not really about the Jews. It is about Moral Majority types who really could care less about the Jews (as non Christians the Jews are destined for hell anyway in their religious ideology) but for religious reasons they still support the state of Israel. Even more than the American Jews. A rather bipolar worldview.
No reason to blame it on Jewish zionists or the Israel lobby.
Take a look at this:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/05/jews

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70633 Jan 12, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>

I have a friend who's medical research is on how to increase fertility in eggs used to make test tube babies :)
Really? Is it natural process or does one have to take hormone shots?

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70634 Jan 12, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Take a look at this:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/05/jews
It's more like politics. Politicians are Pro-Israel. Nothing to do with Jesus.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#70635 Jan 12, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? Is it natural process or does one have to take hormone shots?
Well, he's a medical researcher, so he's looking at how certain drugs affect eggs and fertility. So far, he hasn't found anything. Sucks to be him.

However, if you're doing the whole test tube thing, and you're a woman, there's lots of injections required.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70636 Jan 12, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, he's a medical researcher, so he's looking at how certain drugs affect eggs and fertility. So far, he hasn't found anything. Sucks to be him.
That would be an interesting subject as I studied pharmacology. lol
Are you talking about narcotics or prescription drugs?

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#70637 Jan 12, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
It's more like politics. Politicians are Pro-Israel. Nothing to do with Jesus.
The land of Israel presently, is a testimony of Jesus existence and the biblical stories.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70638 Jan 12, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> The land of Israel presently, is a testimony of Jesus existence and the biblical stories.
Watch the videos on you tube called "Ring of Power"

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#70639 Jan 12, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
That would be an interesting subject as I studied pharmacology. lol
Are you talking about narcotics or prescription drugs?
Prescription. No, I don't know the drugs, sorry. He's just trying to demonstrate that some new drug and method can increase fertility. Unfortunately for him, his results were negative. I personally think that's great, it needs to be published, too, but he's not happy and is just running more tests...

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#70640 Jan 12, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Watch the videos on you tube called "Ring of Power"
We have so many videos in the world, some are true while some are false.
I don't see any politics in that land called Israel,
because it was initially a non arable land, until the Jews did their home work.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#70641 Jan 12, 2013
The land of Israel is a land with little or no importance until the Jews transformed it.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#70642 Jan 12, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> The land of Israel presently, is a testimony of Jesus existence and the biblical stories.
To Date!!

Who let you back on the public library system anyway? Aren't you on some kind of quest for the Lady of the Lake or something? You should head on over to Israel. It's to the east. You can't miss it.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#70643 Jan 12, 2013
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>To Date!!
Who let you back on the public library system anyway? Aren't you on some kind of quest for the Lady of the Lake or something? You should head on over to Israel. It's to the east. You can't miss it.
You don't have an idea of what you are talking about.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#70645 Jan 12, 2013
Of course, people who try to hijack threads for purposes other than the topic of the thread are certainly acting in an anti-social way, don't you think?
Cybele wrote:
You are giving a different meaning to anti-social
Different in what way?

***

Don't you think it takes judgment to determine if someone else's argument is illogical and contains logical fallacies?
Cybele wrote:
No you are not using your 'own' judgement but following a set of rules for logical arguments.
How would one go about determining *how* the rules apply without using judgment?
Cybele wrote:
We can't apply those set of rules in every type of argument.
Why not?

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70646 Jan 12, 2013
Drew Smith wrote:
Of course, people who try to hijack threads for purposes other than the topic of the thread are certainly acting in an anti-social way, don't you think?
<quoted text>
Different in what way?
***
Don't you think it takes judgment to determine if someone else's argument is illogical and contains logical fallacies?
<quoted text>
How would one go about determining *how* the rules apply without using judgment?
<quoted text>
Why not?
First of all, not all arguments are formal, so certain rules don't apply. If you think you are using judgement by pointing out fallacies, it's not really your own. You're just identifying them.

definition of judgement:

"the forming of an opinion, estimate, notion, or conclusion, as from circumstances presented to the mind."

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