Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.
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“Why does my ignorance”

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#70603
Jan 11, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
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I agree. I just realized that getting the somatic cell of a zygote is impossible.
uhm...first, no, that's not what I meant :p

second, it's not impossible, it's just difficult.
If possible, it has to be an embryo or fetus. But that just poses ethical problems. lol
That's a lot easier :)

And only unethical in some countries...
But anyway, I will get more info. You're right I am already interested. I have been interested in human cloning that started ten years ago in college when I did my persuasion speech/presentation in human cloning. I got an A on that! ;-)
There you go! You've got a start!

I tried to find you some stuff to read, but...wow, most cloning seems to take place at the genetic/molecular level, so it's difficult to find 'state of the discipline' articles. Here are two...uh...overviews, I guess:

http://www.sciencepub.net/nature/0201/06ma.pd...

This one discusses the problems with cloning:

http://cmbi.bjmu.edu.cn/news/0104/8.htm

Have fun :)

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#70604
Jan 11, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
What was the premise that led to your conclusion?
The 73 oil crisis.

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#70605
Jan 11, 2013
 
MikeF wrote:
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The 73 oil crisis.
what about it?

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#70606
Jan 11, 2013
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
uhm...first, no, that's not what I meant :p
second, it's not impossible, it's just difficult.
<quoted text>
That's a lot easier :)
And only unethical in some countries...
<quoted text>
There you go! You've got a start!
I tried to find you some stuff to read, but...wow, most cloning seems to take place at the genetic/molecular level, so it's difficult to find 'state of the discipline' articles. Here are two...uh...overviews, I guess:
http://www.sciencepub.net/nature/0201/06ma.pd...
This one discusses the problems with cloning:
http://cmbi.bjmu.edu.cn/news/0104/8.htm
Have fun :)
It would be difficult to have progress in human cloning because it's illegal in the first place.:/

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#70607
Jan 11, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
what about it?
I had just gone through it (in Germany). When I got out of the Air Force in 74, it was fresh in my mind. So when I had to do a persuasive speech, I went looking for related material. "Limits to Growth" presented itself. So I redid the computer analysis (with punch cards no less) and gave my speech on growth.

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#70608
Jan 11, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
It would be difficult to have progress in human cloning because it's illegal in the first place.:/
Actually, it's not.

Only fifteen US States have laws regulating human cloning. A sixteenth, Louisiana, did, but it expired in 2003.

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#70609
Jan 11, 2013
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Here are two...uh...overviews, I guess:
http://www.sciencepub.net/nature/0201/06ma.pd...
This one discusses the problems with cloning:
http://cmbi.bjmu.edu.cn/news/0104/8.htm
Have fun :)
I understand the cloning process that takes place. It looks like the somatic cells comes from the donor with ‘desired genes’and using its nucleus to be fused with an empty egg or egg cytoplasm by reprogramming the nucleus.

My question is, what if the egg cytoplasm and somatic cells come from the same host? That would mean the clone is the identical twin of that host, right? Will a nuclear transfer be needed in this case? There is a process where an egg can be fertilized without a sperm but because the embryo doesn't have paternal chromosomes, it can't develop into a baby and we don’t know much about that technology yet so that is out of the question.

Or maybe in reproductive cloning, if the egg cytoplasm and somatic cell come from the same donor, that nuclear transfer will still have to take place for the oocyte to react on somatic cell nucleus and reach development after being stimulated by a shock. This is the SCNT process of a real clone. If however, a clone will have to come from two donors – one the egg donor and the DNA of another, considering the fact that at least 1% of the egg donor will pass on the genes to the clone, then that is not really a clone, but same sex reproduction!

“what we think we become”

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#70610
Jan 11, 2013
 
I meant to say the egg donor will pass on 1% of her genes...

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#70611
Jan 11, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, it's not.
Only fifteen US States have laws regulating human cloning. A sixteenth, Louisiana, did, but it expired in 2003.
Are you sure? I know some states allow stem cell research but not human cloning. Do you have a source?

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#70612
Jan 11, 2013
 
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
I had just gone through it (in Germany). When I got out of the Air Force in 74, it was fresh in my mind. So when I had to do a persuasive speech, I went looking for related material. "Limits to Growth" presented itself. So I redid the computer analysis (with punch cards no less) and gave my speech on growth.
So we're going to run out of oil reserves? By when?

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#70614
Jan 11, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
So we're going to run out of oil reserves? By when?
Eventually. When is a function of how much oil reserved are to be discovered.

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#70615
Jan 11, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand the cloning process that takes place. It looks like the somatic cells comes from the donor with ‘desired genes’and using its nucleus to be fused with an empty egg or egg cytoplasm by reprogramming the nucleus.
My question is, what if the egg cytoplasm and somatic cells come from the same host? That would mean the clone is the identical twin of that host, right? Will a nuclear transfer be needed in this case? There is a process where an egg can be fertilized without a sperm but because the embryo doesn't have paternal chromosomes, it can't develop into a baby and we don’t know much about that technology yet so that is out of the question.
Or maybe in reproductive cloning, if the egg cytoplasm and somatic cell come from the same donor, that nuclear transfer will still have to take place for the oocyte to react on somatic cell nucleus and reach development after being stimulated by a shock. This is the SCNT process of a real clone. If however, a clone will have to come from two donors – one the egg donor and the DNA of another, considering the fact that at least 1% of the egg donor will pass on the genes to the clone, then that is not really a clone, but same sex reproduction!
A bit rusty...i skipped a few months on the topic.
But begetting a girl also means deleting the male matter.
And as far as i know that process is documented.
So it could be reproduced as in introducing the matter with inbuild self-destruct just to get the proces going.

There never was an oil crisis in '73, it was just seen as a good way to make people aware and to drive up the prices.
But yes sooner or later we will run out.
Methane will probably become the next thing.
Our kids will live in the Big Stink. Aren't we the lucky ones!
Chung

Singapore, Singapore

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#70616
Jan 11, 2013
 
Pepople still believe in magic silliness?

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#70617
Jan 11, 2013
 
Chung wrote:
Pepople still believe in magic silliness?
*sigh*

"They say a handful still survive..."
GodIsAnEyeball

East Bernstadt, KY

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#70618
Jan 11, 2013
 
It doesn't take magic to be respectful towards/of others.

Just common sense and decency.

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#70619
Jan 11, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
It would be difficult to have progress in human cloning because it's illegal in the first place.:/
It's not illegal in all nations.

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#70620
Jan 11, 2013
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not illegal in all nations.
Why not do something that's legal for now? If the nucleus of a somatic cell is inserted in an empty egg, that will be a hybrid egg and then fertilize it with a sperm. After it's fertilized, let the egg grow in a womb of a surrogate mother. If this technology is doable I will be glad to participate by being the somatic cell donor. Anyone want to chime in in this fantasy? LOLOL!

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#70621
Jan 11, 2013
 
oh please don't take it seriously...

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#70622
Jan 11, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand the cloning process that takes place. It looks like the somatic cells comes from the donor with ‘desired genes’and using its nucleus to be fused with an empty egg or egg cytoplasm by reprogramming the nucleus.
My question is, what if the egg cytoplasm and somatic cells come from the same host? That would mean the clone is the identical twin of that host, right? Will a nuclear transfer be needed in this case? There is a process where an egg can be fertilized without a sperm but because the embryo doesn't have paternal chromosomes, it can't develop into a baby and we don’t know much about that technology yet so that is out of the question.
Or maybe in reproductive cloning, if the egg cytoplasm and somatic cell come from the same donor, that nuclear transfer will still have to take place for the oocyte to react on somatic cell nucleus and reach development after being stimulated by a shock. This is the SCNT process of a real clone. If however, a clone will have to come from two donors – one the egg donor and the DNA of another, considering the fact that at least 1% of the egg donor will pass on the genes to the clone, then that is not really a clone, but same sex reproduction!
Yes, you're correct, in one way here: the clone gets its nuclear DNA from one individual, and is identical in terms of nuclear DNA to that individual, but receives its mitochondrial DNA from the egg its put into. However, mtDNA comprises only 37 genes and reproduces separately from nuclear DNA, so it's a bit inaccurate to write the mtDNA as a percentage of nuclear DNA. But, yes, if both came from one individual, it would be a more perfect representation of that individual.

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#70623
Jan 11, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Why not do something that's legal for now? If the nucleus of a somatic cell is inserted in an empty egg, that will be a hybrid egg and then fertilize it with a sperm. After it's fertilized, let the egg grow in a womb of a surrogate mother. If this technology is doable I will be glad to participate by being the somatic cell donor. Anyone want to chime in in this fantasy? LOLOL!
hahaha, wow, I don't know if that's possible.

I have a friend who's medical research is on how to increase fertility in eggs used to make test tube babies :)

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