Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Read more
GodIsAnEyeball

East Bernstadt, KY

#70618 Jan 11, 2013
It doesn't take magic to be respectful towards/of others.

Just common sense and decency.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#70619 Jan 11, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
It would be difficult to have progress in human cloning because it's illegal in the first place.:/
It's not illegal in all nations.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70620 Jan 11, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not illegal in all nations.
Why not do something that's legal for now? If the nucleus of a somatic cell is inserted in an empty egg, that will be a hybrid egg and then fertilize it with a sperm. After it's fertilized, let the egg grow in a womb of a surrogate mother. If this technology is doable I will be glad to participate by being the somatic cell donor. Anyone want to chime in in this fantasy? LOLOL!

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70621 Jan 11, 2013
oh please don't take it seriously...

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#70622 Jan 11, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand the cloning process that takes place. It looks like the somatic cells comes from the donor with ‘desired genes’and using its nucleus to be fused with an empty egg or egg cytoplasm by reprogramming the nucleus.
My question is, what if the egg cytoplasm and somatic cells come from the same host? That would mean the clone is the identical twin of that host, right? Will a nuclear transfer be needed in this case? There is a process where an egg can be fertilized without a sperm but because the embryo doesn't have paternal chromosomes, it can't develop into a baby and we don’t know much about that technology yet so that is out of the question.
Or maybe in reproductive cloning, if the egg cytoplasm and somatic cell come from the same donor, that nuclear transfer will still have to take place for the oocyte to react on somatic cell nucleus and reach development after being stimulated by a shock. This is the SCNT process of a real clone. If however, a clone will have to come from two donors – one the egg donor and the DNA of another, considering the fact that at least 1% of the egg donor will pass on the genes to the clone, then that is not really a clone, but same sex reproduction!
Yes, you're correct, in one way here: the clone gets its nuclear DNA from one individual, and is identical in terms of nuclear DNA to that individual, but receives its mitochondrial DNA from the egg its put into. However, mtDNA comprises only 37 genes and reproduces separately from nuclear DNA, so it's a bit inaccurate to write the mtDNA as a percentage of nuclear DNA. But, yes, if both came from one individual, it would be a more perfect representation of that individual.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#70623 Jan 11, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Why not do something that's legal for now? If the nucleus of a somatic cell is inserted in an empty egg, that will be a hybrid egg and then fertilize it with a sperm. After it's fertilized, let the egg grow in a womb of a surrogate mother. If this technology is doable I will be glad to participate by being the somatic cell donor. Anyone want to chime in in this fantasy? LOLOL!
hahaha, wow, I don't know if that's possible.

I have a friend who's medical research is on how to increase fertility in eggs used to make test tube babies :)

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#70624 Jan 11, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Eventually. When is a function of how much oil reserved are to be discovered.
Actually we will never run out of oil. It will just keep getting more and more expensive. It will eventually get priced off of the market. Though that will not happen for a while. As the price goes up and technology improves what used to be unretrievable will become economical. Even if oil cost $100.00 a gallon there are some uses of it that will still be of value. Driving a car probably will be not one of them at that point.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70626 Jan 11, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, great question!
May I ask you one? Why don't you study this stuff in greater detail - you have good ideas, the answers are waitingforyou!
It's more complex than that. Humans - well, all animals - have mechanisms to detect deleterious mutations and abort developing fetuses.
Our DNA repairing mechanisms work when the entire system is functioning - in viable phenotypes. When the mutations are too severe, the developing organism self-destructs. Also, when the mutations are too severe, they interfere with the ability of the organism to function; so it dies.
Cloning doesn't quite work like that, though I'm sure those systems are operating, too. The main problems with cloning are lie in teleomere length, if I remember correctly. Teleomeres shorten every time a cell reproduces. When they get too short, cells are no longer viable, and you get cellular death, then organ failure. So in older animals, teleomeres are getting shorter - when you clone them, you've started with old teleomeres, giving the clone a limited lifespan.
I'm sure there's more to it than that, but I'm not super familiar with how cloning works. Part of the problem is where you choose your cell - depending on location, cells have only part of your genes active and most of your genome shut off. So, if you clone from the skin cells you're going to have different problems than if you clone from muscle or stem cells.
And, yes, you might have mutation, though I would guess that would be the rarest problem. The largest problems are the ones I mentioned above, plus that somatic cells are simply not chemically cued to reproduce as germline cells. So various parts of them fail in ways that I am not familiar with.
I read that there are environmental factors that affect or damage DNA cells such as UV light and radiation. And also 'electric shock' is one of them. Do you think because in cloning electric shock is administered to the the egg to activate the nucleus or cell division that it damages the DNA causing deleterious mutations?

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70627 Jan 11, 2013
I know DNA damage is different from a mutation but perhaps the electric shock causes both to occur in the DNA.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#70628 Jan 12, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I read that there are environmental factors that affect or damage DNA cells such as UV light and radiation. And also 'electric shock' is one of them. Do you think because in cloning electric shock is administered to the the egg to activate the nucleus or cell division that it damages the DNA causing deleterious mutations?
Yes, environmental effects damage DNA. It's quite possible the electric shock could do something, but whatever effect it has is very likely minimal.

Rather, the problems likely have something to do with the absence of epigenetic cues. Nuclear DNA does not have the methylation that gametic DNA does; most nuclear DNA is simply switched off. The shock turns it back on, so it can build a new individual. However, that individual is built in the absence of the environmental cues that all normal individuals develop because of (not only within).

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#70629 Jan 12, 2013
neutral observer wrote:
<quoted text>
Zionism? That is bs. Our interest in Israel is not really about the Jews. It is about Moral Majority types who really could care less about the Jews (as non Christians the Jews are destined for hell anyway in their religious ideology) but for religious reasons they still support the state of Israel. Even more than the American Jews. A rather bipolar worldview.
No reason to blame it on Jewish zionists or the Israel lobby.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/ 2012/04/05/jews

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#70630 Jan 12, 2013
neutral observer wrote:
<quoted text>
Zionism? That is bs. Our interest in Israel is not really about the Jews. It is about Moral Majority types who really could care less about the Jews (as non Christians the Jews are destined for hell anyway in their religious ideology) but for religious reasons they still support the state of Israel. Even more than the American Jews. A rather bipolar worldview.
No reason to blame it on Jewish zionists or the Israel lobby.
Ofcourse. But they are gradually getting the orientation presently.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#70631 Jan 12, 2013
neutral observer wrote:
<quoted text>
Zionism? That is bs. Our interest in Israel is not really about the Jews. It is about Moral Majority types who really could care less about the Jews (as non Christians the Jews are destined for hell anyway in their religious ideology) but for religious reasons they still support the state of Israel. Even more than the American Jews. A rather bipolar worldview.
No reason to blame it on Jewish zionists or the Israel lobby.
Take a look at this:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/05/jews

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70633 Jan 12, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>

I have a friend who's medical research is on how to increase fertility in eggs used to make test tube babies :)
Really? Is it natural process or does one have to take hormone shots?

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70634 Jan 12, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Take a look at this:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/05/jews
It's more like politics. Politicians are Pro-Israel. Nothing to do with Jesus.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#70635 Jan 12, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? Is it natural process or does one have to take hormone shots?
Well, he's a medical researcher, so he's looking at how certain drugs affect eggs and fertility. So far, he hasn't found anything. Sucks to be him.

However, if you're doing the whole test tube thing, and you're a woman, there's lots of injections required.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70636 Jan 12, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, he's a medical researcher, so he's looking at how certain drugs affect eggs and fertility. So far, he hasn't found anything. Sucks to be him.
That would be an interesting subject as I studied pharmacology. lol
Are you talking about narcotics or prescription drugs?

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#70637 Jan 12, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
It's more like politics. Politicians are Pro-Israel. Nothing to do with Jesus.
The land of Israel presently, is a testimony of Jesus existence and the biblical stories.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70638 Jan 12, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> The land of Israel presently, is a testimony of Jesus existence and the biblical stories.
Watch the videos on you tube called "Ring of Power"

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#70639 Jan 12, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
That would be an interesting subject as I studied pharmacology. lol
Are you talking about narcotics or prescription drugs?
Prescription. No, I don't know the drugs, sorry. He's just trying to demonstrate that some new drug and method can increase fertility. Unfortunately for him, his results were negative. I personally think that's great, it needs to be published, too, but he's not happy and is just running more tests...

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