Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.
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“Why does my ignorance”

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#70592
Jan 11, 2013
 
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Phasmatodea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phasmida
There are others.
Nice!

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#70593
Jan 11, 2013
 
Is it safe to assume that perhaps a somatic cell or mitochondria of a zygote should be mixed in with the donor's ovum? That means, the donor will have to provide her egg and then be mixed with someone who will actually get pregnant to provide the somatic cell of her growing zygote? The reason being is that the zygote's cells are still fresh as oppose to somatic cell or DNA of an adult that has already undergone complex cell processes including mutations. This will prevent the clone from inheriting damaged cells. The zygote will come from someone else instead of the ovum donor. The idea is that the somatic cell will come from a zygote and an ovum from an adult egg donor. Does it sound unethical? Dolly the sheep had three mothers, the egg donor, the DNA of another, and the surrogate mother. She is not the identical twin of one donor and is genetically different from her.

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#70594
Jan 11, 2013
 
I didn't realize that my idea is a foursome! lol

Weird Science is weird.

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#70595
Jan 11, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
Is it safe to assume that perhaps a somatic cell or mitochondria of a zygote should be mixed in with the donor's ovum? That means, the donor will have to provide her egg and then be mixed with someone who will actually get pregnant to provide the somatic cell of her growing zygote? The reason being is that the zygote's cells are still fresh as oppose to somatic cell or DNA of an adult that has already undergone complex cell processes including mutations. This will prevent the clone from inheriting damaged cells. The zygote will come from someone else instead of the ovum donor. The idea is that the somatic cell will come from a zygote and an ovum from an adult egg donor. Does it sound unethical? Dolly the sheep had three mothers, the egg donor, the DNA of another, and the surrogate mother. She is not the identical twin of one donor and is genetically different from her.
No. That's not safe to assume. You're basically oversimplifying and therefore on the wrong track. Good guesses for what you know, but not for what is known by biologists who study such things.

Honestly, you have great ideas, a wonderful imagination. Just read the literature on this stuff - you're already interested. I promise you that you will find answers, you'll be utterly amazed and it will change your world. And you may even come up with original ideas and make a genuine contribution.

The truism that I have learned about anything I thought I knew a little about, that I started to learn more about, was that I know nothing about almost everything. There is more to this world than I can imagine, than I can know - and, when you learn more about how cells reproduce, you will understand more than you can understand now.

And it will amaze you.

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#70596
Jan 11, 2013
 
Christopher Keller wrote:
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A cloned human would be created for a specific purpose. A soldier. A basketball player. A musician.
For a given purpose by someone with power.
As a slave.
With 7 billion people and climbing, why do we need to clone to get slaves? Sure it could be doable, but does it make sense as a probable outcome.

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#70597
Jan 11, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Too many people have been watching too much bad sci-fi.
A human cloning gets you one human newborn. That is all.
No reason to treat it any differently from any other...
I agree. It would have to be raised the same as any child.

My future responses to the clone issue will just be copies of an original, previous response.

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#70598
Jan 11, 2013
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
No. That's not safe to assume. You're basically oversimplifying and therefore on the wrong track. Good guesses for what you know, but not for what is known by biologists who study such things.
Honestly, you have great ideas, a wonderful imagination. Just read the literature on this stuff - you're already interested. I promise you that you will find answers, you'll be utterly amazed and it will change your world. And you may even come up with original ideas and make a genuine contribution.
The truism that I have learned about anything I thought I knew a little about, that I started to learn more about, was that I know nothing about almost everything. There is more to this world than I can imagine, than I can know - and, when you learn more about how cells reproduce, you will understand more than you can understand now.
And it will amaze you.
I agree. I just realized that getting the somatic cell of a zygote is impossible. If possible, it has to be an embryo or fetus. But that just poses ethical problems. lol

But anyway, I will get more info. You're right I am already interested. I have been interested in human cloning that started ten years ago in college when I did my persuasion speech/presentation in human cloning. I got an A on that! ;-)

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#70599
Jan 11, 2013
 
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I agree. It would have to be raised the same as any child.
My future responses to the clone issue will just be copies of an original, previous response.
Hehehe.

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#70600
Jan 11, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. I just realized that getting the somatic cell of a zygote is impossible. If possible, it has to be an embryo or fetus. But that just poses ethical problems. lol
But anyway, I will get more info. You're right I am already interested. I have been interested in human cloning that started ten years ago in college when I did my persuasion speech/presentation in human cloning. I got an A on that! ;-)
Interesting. I did mine on population growth based on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limits_to_growth

I got an A as well.

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#70601
Jan 11, 2013
 
Is anyone interested in being a donor of somatic cells that contain your DNA besides me?

I ask myself, why would scientists want my DNA?

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#70602
Jan 11, 2013
 
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting. I did mine on population growth based on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limits_to_growth
I got an A as well.
What was the premise that led to your conclusion?

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#70603
Jan 11, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. I just realized that getting the somatic cell of a zygote is impossible.
uhm...first, no, that's not what I meant :p

second, it's not impossible, it's just difficult.
If possible, it has to be an embryo or fetus. But that just poses ethical problems. lol
That's a lot easier :)

And only unethical in some countries...
But anyway, I will get more info. You're right I am already interested. I have been interested in human cloning that started ten years ago in college when I did my persuasion speech/presentation in human cloning. I got an A on that! ;-)
There you go! You've got a start!

I tried to find you some stuff to read, but...wow, most cloning seems to take place at the genetic/molecular level, so it's difficult to find 'state of the discipline' articles. Here are two...uh...overviews, I guess:

http://www.sciencepub.net/nature/0201/06ma.pd...

This one discusses the problems with cloning:

http://cmbi.bjmu.edu.cn/news/0104/8.htm

Have fun :)

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#70604
Jan 11, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
What was the premise that led to your conclusion?
The 73 oil crisis.

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#70605
Jan 11, 2013
 
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
The 73 oil crisis.
what about it?

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#70606
Jan 11, 2013
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
uhm...first, no, that's not what I meant :p
second, it's not impossible, it's just difficult.
<quoted text>
That's a lot easier :)
And only unethical in some countries...
<quoted text>
There you go! You've got a start!
I tried to find you some stuff to read, but...wow, most cloning seems to take place at the genetic/molecular level, so it's difficult to find 'state of the discipline' articles. Here are two...uh...overviews, I guess:
http://www.sciencepub.net/nature/0201/06ma.pd...
This one discusses the problems with cloning:
http://cmbi.bjmu.edu.cn/news/0104/8.htm
Have fun :)
It would be difficult to have progress in human cloning because it's illegal in the first place.:/

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#70607
Jan 11, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
what about it?
I had just gone through it (in Germany). When I got out of the Air Force in 74, it was fresh in my mind. So when I had to do a persuasive speech, I went looking for related material. "Limits to Growth" presented itself. So I redid the computer analysis (with punch cards no less) and gave my speech on growth.

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#70608
Jan 11, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
It would be difficult to have progress in human cloning because it's illegal in the first place.:/
Actually, it's not.

Only fifteen US States have laws regulating human cloning. A sixteenth, Louisiana, did, but it expired in 2003.

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#70609
Jan 11, 2013
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Here are two...uh...overviews, I guess:
http://www.sciencepub.net/nature/0201/06ma.pd...
This one discusses the problems with cloning:
http://cmbi.bjmu.edu.cn/news/0104/8.htm
Have fun :)
I understand the cloning process that takes place. It looks like the somatic cells comes from the donor with ‘desired genes’and using its nucleus to be fused with an empty egg or egg cytoplasm by reprogramming the nucleus.

My question is, what if the egg cytoplasm and somatic cells come from the same host? That would mean the clone is the identical twin of that host, right? Will a nuclear transfer be needed in this case? There is a process where an egg can be fertilized without a sperm but because the embryo doesn't have paternal chromosomes, it can't develop into a baby and we don’t know much about that technology yet so that is out of the question.

Or maybe in reproductive cloning, if the egg cytoplasm and somatic cell come from the same donor, that nuclear transfer will still have to take place for the oocyte to react on somatic cell nucleus and reach development after being stimulated by a shock. This is the SCNT process of a real clone. If however, a clone will have to come from two donors – one the egg donor and the DNA of another, considering the fact that at least 1% of the egg donor will pass on the genes to the clone, then that is not really a clone, but same sex reproduction!

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#70610
Jan 11, 2013
 
I meant to say the egg donor will pass on 1% of her genes...

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#70611
Jan 11, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, it's not.
Only fifteen US States have laws regulating human cloning. A sixteenth, Louisiana, did, but it expired in 2003.
Are you sure? I know some states allow stem cell research but not human cloning. Do you have a source?

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