Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

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“what we think we become”

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#70529
Jan 10, 2013
 

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Thomas Robertson wrote:
Cybele, what is your point in saying that animals of other species can't clone themselves?
That we have unique gifts, and therefore are God's chosen species, and therefore must have been created rather than evolved?
We have heard that line before.
Other species have unique gifts, too.
Cheetahs probably feel sorry for us because we can't swim as fast as they can.
Elephants probably feel sorry for us because we can't carry heavy logs with our noses.
Bombadier beetles probably feel sorry for us because we can't excrete toxins in an enemy's face.
No. I'm asking for evidence because I've never heard of any animal species that can clone itself other than single cell organisms through asexual reproduction. And now animal cloning has become synonymous to asexual propagation. Is human cloning considered an asexual reproduction?

My point is cloning is a process that humans invented with the use of technology. So how can animals like cows or sheep use this process naturally? Impossible.

Where are you going with your statement about animals? Did I ever mention anything that suggests that animals are inferior to humans?

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

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#70530
Jan 10, 2013
 
Christopher Keller wrote:
<quoted text>
A cloned human would be created for a specific purpose. A soldier. A basketball player. A musician.
For a given purpose by someone with power.
As a slave.
Sez who?

What you get is a baby.

“what we think we become”

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#70531
Jan 10, 2013
 
Christopher Keller wrote:
<quoted text>
A cloned human would be created for a specific purpose. A soldier. A basketball player. A musician.
For a given purpose by someone with power.
As a slave.
Then we should NOT clone humans. Many attempts in cloning result in failures and deformity, which is why it makes it unethical. No human cloning produced viable pregnancies. They lead to miscarriages. Considering the risks involved, why would one choose this method of reproduction?

Before we even think what a cloned human can do in our society, a soldier or athlete, we should first study how to perfect the cloning process.

You're mentality is influenced by sci-fi movies.

“ROCK ON ROCKERS!!”

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#70532
Jan 10, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Then we should NOT clone humans. Many attempts in cloning result in failures and deformity, which is why it makes it unethical. No human cloning produced viable pregnancies. They lead to miscarriages. Considering the risks involved, why would one choose this method of reproduction?
Before we even think what a cloned human can do in our society, a soldier or athlete, we should first study how to perfect the cloning process.
You're mentality is influenced by sci-fi movies.
. WHY would ANYONE want to CLONE anything? It's like creating ARTIFICIAL Flavors from the Original NATURAL Flavor?? The taste is NEVER exactly the same.. THERE is a slight difference.. BUT I just can't put my finger on it. That's WHY we were created by the Master Creator himself..to REPRODUCE!! Reminds me of the movie.. The Boys From Brazil..create a Master Race..FREAKIN' SCARY!!

“what we think we become”

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#70533
Jan 10, 2013
 

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Colorado Chick wrote:
<quoted text>. WHY would ANYONE want to CLONE anything? It's like creating ARTIFICIAL Flavors from the Original NATURAL Flavor?? The taste is NEVER exactly the same.. THERE is a slight difference.. BUT I just can't put my finger on it. That's WHY we were created by the Master Creator himself..to REPRODUCE!! Reminds me of the movie.. The Boys From Brazil..create a Master Race..FREAKIN' SCARY!!
What if cloning is the future? Do you think in vitro is unethical? I don't see the difference other than the methods used.

“I Am No One Else”

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#70534
Jan 10, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Too many people have been watching too much bad sci-fi.
A human cloning gets you one human newborn. That is all.
No reason to treat it any differently from any other...
I can't figure out why people just can't tell the difference between fiction and reality still. It's scary.

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#70535
Jan 10, 2013
 
Colorado Chick wrote:
<quoted text>. WHY would ANYONE want to CLONE anything? It's like creating ARTIFICIAL Flavors from the Original NATURAL Flavor?? The taste is NEVER exactly the same.. THERE is a slight difference.. BUT I just can't put my finger on it. That's WHY we were created by the Master Creator himself..to REPRODUCE!! Reminds me of the movie.. The Boys From Brazil..create a Master Race..FREAKIN' SCARY!!
We weren't "created" anymore than a rock is "created" from lava.

Cloning organs will save lives.

Cloning animals would help feed people.

Cloning plants will help feed people.

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#70536
Jan 10, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Too many people have been watching too much bad sci-fi.
A human cloning gets you one human newborn. That is all.
No reason to treat it any differently from any other...
Except for spare parts....muwa-hahaha!

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#70537
Jan 10, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
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Except for spare parts....muwa-hahaha!
If it could be made acephalic from the beginning....

O'course, by that point, we should be able to just grow the parts separately.

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#70538
Jan 10, 2013
 

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Cybele wrote:
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Well then their theories just confirmed my own conjectures! yay!
Yaaay!

What other theories would you like to "confirm" after the fact, with your own guesses?

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#70539
Jan 10, 2013
 
Christopher Keller wrote:
<quoted text>
A cloned human would be created for a specific purpose. A soldier. A basketball player. A musician.
For a given purpose by someone with power.
As a slave.
Or 'cause you're infertile and want kids.

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#70540
Jan 10, 2013
 

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Cybele wrote:
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No. I'm asking for evidence because I've never heard of any animal species that can clone itself other than single cell organisms through asexual reproduction. And now animal cloning has become synonymous to asexual propagation. Is human cloning considered an asexual reproduction?
My point is cloning is a process that humans invented with the use of technology. So how can animals like cows or sheep use this process naturally? Impossible.
Where are you going with your statement about animals? Did I ever mention anything that suggests that animals are inferior to humans?
Well, you're mistaken. Lots of plants can create clones or sexually reproduce. They decide which to do based on the environmental conditions around them. In favorable conditions, clone. In poor conditions, sexually reproduce.

Some lizard species are 100% clones - no male offspring, only females. All daughters share 100% of their genes with their mother, minus mutation.

All identical twins are clones. There's about 8 primate species that only reproduce in twins - golden lion tamarins, for example.

I honestly wish people would learn more about biology before they make pretense to authoritative statements about it. It's just misleading behavior.

In case you're wondering, most social insects are not actually clones of each other.

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#70541
Jan 10, 2013
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
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Or 'cause you're infertile and want kids.
Good enough reason right there.

O'course, it's gonna play holy hell with criminal forensics.

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#70542
Jan 10, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Sez who?
What you get is a baby.
Totally! The first authorized human cloning will be for couples who cannot have kids, but want to.

I imagine some kind of "The Island" scenario as well, to be honest Although, it's more likely we'll figure out how to grow cloned material, perhaps even bodies, without brains to avoid ethical issues.

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#70543
Jan 10, 2013
 

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macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Good enough reason right there.
O'course, it's gonna play holy hell with criminal forensics.
I imagine, by that time, you'll be able to get a rough read from the DNA on how old the individual is based on teleomere length. Or perhaps we'll add some kind of 666 genetic marking

;)

Plus, the parent is probably going to have a good alibi or be too old to actually carry out a crime when the evil child commits the terrible crime.

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#70544
Jan 10, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
Seriously, WTF.
inorite?

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#70545
Jan 10, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>If it could be made acephalic from the beginning....
O'course, by that point, we should be able to just grow the parts separately.
What joy would an evil mad scientist with designs on global domination get out of that? When I make a clone he will be doubly cephalic, just so that he can suffer more. Muwha-ha-ha ah cough choke gag .... Cloney? I really didn't mean it..

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#70546
Jan 10, 2013
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, you're mistaken. Lots of plants can create clones or sexually reproduce. They decide which to do based on the environmental conditions around them. In favorable conditions, clone. In poor conditions, sexually reproduce.
Some lizard species are 100% clones - no male offspring, only females. All daughters share 100% of their genes with their mother, minus mutation.
All identical twins are clones. There's about 8 primate species that only reproduce in twins - golden lion tamarins, for example.
I honestly wish people would learn more about biology before they make pretense to authoritative statements about it. It's just misleading behavior.
In case you're wondering, most social insects are not actually clones of each other.
Don't female bees have the equivalent to the "y"chromosome in insects? I read an article about their breeding habits and it was a bit on the weird side.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

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#70547
Jan 11, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
What joy would an evil mad scientist with designs on global domination get out of that? When I make a clone he will be doubly cephalic, just so that he can suffer more. Muwha-ha-ha ah cough choke gag .... Cloney? I really didn't mean it..
Okay, stoppit. Yer not helping.

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#70548
Jan 11, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't female bees have the equivalent to the "y"chromosome in insects? I read an article about their breeding habits and it was a bit on the weird side.
Bee genetics is complicated fun :)

Queen bees are diploid. Drones are male haploids, laid by uninseminated worker bees. Worker bees are diploid females.

Drones can reproduce with the queen. The result of a haploid (male)+ diploid (female) is that you get offspring 50% related to each parent (more if the father comes from their female lineage), but 75% related to each other.

The drones are clones here, but not the worker bees nor the queens. Wiki has a nice article on it, but uses confusing language. If you can find an article with a table, it makes understanding the whole mess easier.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplodiploid_sex...

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