Evolution vs. Creation

There are 20 comments on the Jan 6, 2011, Best of New Orleans story titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Don't be mad at me.”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

I'm just a little bunny.

#70597 Jan 11, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Too many people have been watching too much bad sci-fi.
A human cloning gets you one human newborn. That is all.
No reason to treat it any differently from any other...
I agree. It would have to be raised the same as any child.

My future responses to the clone issue will just be copies of an original, previous response.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70598 Jan 11, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
No. That's not safe to assume. You're basically oversimplifying and therefore on the wrong track. Good guesses for what you know, but not for what is known by biologists who study such things.
Honestly, you have great ideas, a wonderful imagination. Just read the literature on this stuff - you're already interested. I promise you that you will find answers, you'll be utterly amazed and it will change your world. And you may even come up with original ideas and make a genuine contribution.
The truism that I have learned about anything I thought I knew a little about, that I started to learn more about, was that I know nothing about almost everything. There is more to this world than I can imagine, than I can know - and, when you learn more about how cells reproduce, you will understand more than you can understand now.
And it will amaze you.
I agree. I just realized that getting the somatic cell of a zygote is impossible. If possible, it has to be an embryo or fetus. But that just poses ethical problems. lol

But anyway, I will get more info. You're right I am already interested. I have been interested in human cloning that started ten years ago in college when I did my persuasion speech/presentation in human cloning. I got an A on that! ;-)

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#70599 Jan 11, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I agree. It would have to be raised the same as any child.
My future responses to the clone issue will just be copies of an original, previous response.
Hehehe.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#70600 Jan 11, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. I just realized that getting the somatic cell of a zygote is impossible. If possible, it has to be an embryo or fetus. But that just poses ethical problems. lol
But anyway, I will get more info. You're right I am already interested. I have been interested in human cloning that started ten years ago in college when I did my persuasion speech/presentation in human cloning. I got an A on that! ;-)
Interesting. I did mine on population growth based on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limits_to_growth

I got an A as well.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70601 Jan 11, 2013
Is anyone interested in being a donor of somatic cells that contain your DNA besides me?

I ask myself, why would scientists want my DNA?

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70602 Jan 11, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting. I did mine on population growth based on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limits_to_growth
I got an A as well.
What was the premise that led to your conclusion?

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#70603 Jan 11, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. I just realized that getting the somatic cell of a zygote is impossible.
uhm...first, no, that's not what I meant :p

second, it's not impossible, it's just difficult.
If possible, it has to be an embryo or fetus. But that just poses ethical problems. lol
That's a lot easier :)

And only unethical in some countries...
But anyway, I will get more info. You're right I am already interested. I have been interested in human cloning that started ten years ago in college when I did my persuasion speech/presentation in human cloning. I got an A on that! ;-)
There you go! You've got a start!

I tried to find you some stuff to read, but...wow, most cloning seems to take place at the genetic/molecular level, so it's difficult to find 'state of the discipline' articles. Here are two...uh...overviews, I guess:

http://www.sciencepub.net/nature/0201/06ma.pd...

This one discusses the problems with cloning:

http://cmbi.bjmu.edu.cn/news/0104/8.htm

Have fun :)

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#70604 Jan 11, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
What was the premise that led to your conclusion?
The 73 oil crisis.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70605 Jan 11, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
The 73 oil crisis.
what about it?

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70606 Jan 11, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
uhm...first, no, that's not what I meant :p
second, it's not impossible, it's just difficult.
<quoted text>
That's a lot easier :)
And only unethical in some countries...
<quoted text>
There you go! You've got a start!
I tried to find you some stuff to read, but...wow, most cloning seems to take place at the genetic/molecular level, so it's difficult to find 'state of the discipline' articles. Here are two...uh...overviews, I guess:
http://www.sciencepub.net/nature/0201/06ma.pd...
This one discusses the problems with cloning:
http://cmbi.bjmu.edu.cn/news/0104/8.htm
Have fun :)
It would be difficult to have progress in human cloning because it's illegal in the first place.:/

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#70607 Jan 11, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
what about it?
I had just gone through it (in Germany). When I got out of the Air Force in 74, it was fresh in my mind. So when I had to do a persuasive speech, I went looking for related material. "Limits to Growth" presented itself. So I redid the computer analysis (with punch cards no less) and gave my speech on growth.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#70608 Jan 11, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
It would be difficult to have progress in human cloning because it's illegal in the first place.:/
Actually, it's not.

Only fifteen US States have laws regulating human cloning. A sixteenth, Louisiana, did, but it expired in 2003.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70609 Jan 11, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Here are two...uh...overviews, I guess:
http://www.sciencepub.net/nature/0201/06ma.pd...
This one discusses the problems with cloning:
http://cmbi.bjmu.edu.cn/news/0104/8.htm
Have fun :)
I understand the cloning process that takes place. It looks like the somatic cells comes from the donor with ‘desired genes’and using its nucleus to be fused with an empty egg or egg cytoplasm by reprogramming the nucleus.

My question is, what if the egg cytoplasm and somatic cells come from the same host? That would mean the clone is the identical twin of that host, right? Will a nuclear transfer be needed in this case? There is a process where an egg can be fertilized without a sperm but because the embryo doesn't have paternal chromosomes, it can't develop into a baby and we don’t know much about that technology yet so that is out of the question.

Or maybe in reproductive cloning, if the egg cytoplasm and somatic cell come from the same donor, that nuclear transfer will still have to take place for the oocyte to react on somatic cell nucleus and reach development after being stimulated by a shock. This is the SCNT process of a real clone. If however, a clone will have to come from two donors – one the egg donor and the DNA of another, considering the fact that at least 1% of the egg donor will pass on the genes to the clone, then that is not really a clone, but same sex reproduction!

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70610 Jan 11, 2013
I meant to say the egg donor will pass on 1% of her genes...

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70611 Jan 11, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, it's not.
Only fifteen US States have laws regulating human cloning. A sixteenth, Louisiana, did, but it expired in 2003.
Are you sure? I know some states allow stem cell research but not human cloning. Do you have a source?

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70612 Jan 11, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
I had just gone through it (in Germany). When I got out of the Air Force in 74, it was fresh in my mind. So when I had to do a persuasive speech, I went looking for related material. "Limits to Growth" presented itself. So I redid the computer analysis (with punch cards no less) and gave my speech on growth.
So we're going to run out of oil reserves? By when?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#70614 Jan 11, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
So we're going to run out of oil reserves? By when?
Eventually. When is a function of how much oil reserved are to be discovered.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#70615 Jan 11, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand the cloning process that takes place. It looks like the somatic cells comes from the donor with ‘desired genes’and using its nucleus to be fused with an empty egg or egg cytoplasm by reprogramming the nucleus.
My question is, what if the egg cytoplasm and somatic cells come from the same host? That would mean the clone is the identical twin of that host, right? Will a nuclear transfer be needed in this case? There is a process where an egg can be fertilized without a sperm but because the embryo doesn't have paternal chromosomes, it can't develop into a baby and we don’t know much about that technology yet so that is out of the question.
Or maybe in reproductive cloning, if the egg cytoplasm and somatic cell come from the same donor, that nuclear transfer will still have to take place for the oocyte to react on somatic cell nucleus and reach development after being stimulated by a shock. This is the SCNT process of a real clone. If however, a clone will have to come from two donors – one the egg donor and the DNA of another, considering the fact that at least 1% of the egg donor will pass on the genes to the clone, then that is not really a clone, but same sex reproduction!
A bit rusty...i skipped a few months on the topic.
But begetting a girl also means deleting the male matter.
And as far as i know that process is documented.
So it could be reproduced as in introducing the matter with inbuild self-destruct just to get the proces going.

There never was an oil crisis in '73, it was just seen as a good way to make people aware and to drive up the prices.
But yes sooner or later we will run out.
Methane will probably become the next thing.
Our kids will live in the Big Stink. Aren't we the lucky ones!
Chung

Singapore, Singapore

#70616 Jan 11, 2013
Pepople still believe in magic silliness?

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#70617 Jan 11, 2013
Chung wrote:
Pepople still believe in magic silliness?
*sigh*

"They say a handful still survive..."

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