Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 209804 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70527 Jan 10, 2013
Seriously, WTF.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Taizhou, China

#70528 Jan 10, 2013
Cybele, what is your point in saying that animals of other species can't clone themselves?
That we have unique gifts, and therefore are God's chosen species, and therefore must have been created rather than evolved?
We have heard that line before.
Other species have unique gifts, too.
Cheetahs probably feel sorry for us because we can't swim as fast as they can.
Elephants probably feel sorry for us because we can't carry heavy logs with our noses.
Bombadier beetles probably feel sorry for us because we can't excrete toxins in an enemy's face.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70529 Jan 10, 2013
Thomas Robertson wrote:
Cybele, what is your point in saying that animals of other species can't clone themselves?
That we have unique gifts, and therefore are God's chosen species, and therefore must have been created rather than evolved?
We have heard that line before.
Other species have unique gifts, too.
Cheetahs probably feel sorry for us because we can't swim as fast as they can.
Elephants probably feel sorry for us because we can't carry heavy logs with our noses.
Bombadier beetles probably feel sorry for us because we can't excrete toxins in an enemy's face.
No. I'm asking for evidence because I've never heard of any animal species that can clone itself other than single cell organisms through asexual reproduction. And now animal cloning has become synonymous to asexual propagation. Is human cloning considered an asexual reproduction?

My point is cloning is a process that humans invented with the use of technology. So how can animals like cows or sheep use this process naturally? Impossible.

Where are you going with your statement about animals? Did I ever mention anything that suggests that animals are inferior to humans?

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#70530 Jan 10, 2013
Christopher Keller wrote:
<quoted text>
A cloned human would be created for a specific purpose. A soldier. A basketball player. A musician.
For a given purpose by someone with power.
As a slave.
Sez who?

What you get is a baby.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70531 Jan 10, 2013
Christopher Keller wrote:
<quoted text>
A cloned human would be created for a specific purpose. A soldier. A basketball player. A musician.
For a given purpose by someone with power.
As a slave.
Then we should NOT clone humans. Many attempts in cloning result in failures and deformity, which is why it makes it unethical. No human cloning produced viable pregnancies. They lead to miscarriages. Considering the risks involved, why would one choose this method of reproduction?

Before we even think what a cloned human can do in our society, a soldier or athlete, we should first study how to perfect the cloning process.

You're mentality is influenced by sci-fi movies.

“ROCK ON ROCKERS!!”

Level 8

Since: Mar 11

Rockin' USA ;)

#70532 Jan 10, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Then we should NOT clone humans. Many attempts in cloning result in failures and deformity, which is why it makes it unethical. No human cloning produced viable pregnancies. They lead to miscarriages. Considering the risks involved, why would one choose this method of reproduction?
Before we even think what a cloned human can do in our society, a soldier or athlete, we should first study how to perfect the cloning process.
You're mentality is influenced by sci-fi movies.
. WHY would ANYONE want to CLONE anything? It's like creating ARTIFICIAL Flavors from the Original NATURAL Flavor?? The taste is NEVER exactly the same.. THERE is a slight difference.. BUT I just can't put my finger on it. That's WHY we were created by the Master Creator himself..to REPRODUCE!! Reminds me of the movie.. The Boys From Brazil..create a Master Race..FREAKIN' SCARY!!

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70533 Jan 10, 2013
Colorado Chick wrote:
<quoted text>. WHY would ANYONE want to CLONE anything? It's like creating ARTIFICIAL Flavors from the Original NATURAL Flavor?? The taste is NEVER exactly the same.. THERE is a slight difference.. BUT I just can't put my finger on it. That's WHY we were created by the Master Creator himself..to REPRODUCE!! Reminds me of the movie.. The Boys From Brazil..create a Master Race..FREAKIN' SCARY!!
What if cloning is the future? Do you think in vitro is unethical? I don't see the difference other than the methods used.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#70534 Jan 10, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Too many people have been watching too much bad sci-fi.
A human cloning gets you one human newborn. That is all.
No reason to treat it any differently from any other...
I can't figure out why people just can't tell the difference between fiction and reality still. It's scary.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#70535 Jan 10, 2013
Colorado Chick wrote:
<quoted text>. WHY would ANYONE want to CLONE anything? It's like creating ARTIFICIAL Flavors from the Original NATURAL Flavor?? The taste is NEVER exactly the same.. THERE is a slight difference.. BUT I just can't put my finger on it. That's WHY we were created by the Master Creator himself..to REPRODUCE!! Reminds me of the movie.. The Boys From Brazil..create a Master Race..FREAKIN' SCARY!!
We weren't "created" anymore than a rock is "created" from lava.

Cloning organs will save lives.

Cloning animals would help feed people.

Cloning plants will help feed people.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#70536 Jan 10, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Too many people have been watching too much bad sci-fi.
A human cloning gets you one human newborn. That is all.
No reason to treat it any differently from any other...
Except for spare parts....muwa-hahaha!

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#70537 Jan 10, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Except for spare parts....muwa-hahaha!
If it could be made acephalic from the beginning....

O'course, by that point, we should be able to just grow the parts separately.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#70538 Jan 10, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Well then their theories just confirmed my own conjectures! yay!
Yaaay!

What other theories would you like to "confirm" after the fact, with your own guesses?

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#70539 Jan 10, 2013
Christopher Keller wrote:
<quoted text>
A cloned human would be created for a specific purpose. A soldier. A basketball player. A musician.
For a given purpose by someone with power.
As a slave.
Or 'cause you're infertile and want kids.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#70540 Jan 10, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
No. I'm asking for evidence because I've never heard of any animal species that can clone itself other than single cell organisms through asexual reproduction. And now animal cloning has become synonymous to asexual propagation. Is human cloning considered an asexual reproduction?
My point is cloning is a process that humans invented with the use of technology. So how can animals like cows or sheep use this process naturally? Impossible.
Where are you going with your statement about animals? Did I ever mention anything that suggests that animals are inferior to humans?
Well, you're mistaken. Lots of plants can create clones or sexually reproduce. They decide which to do based on the environmental conditions around them. In favorable conditions, clone. In poor conditions, sexually reproduce.

Some lizard species are 100% clones - no male offspring, only females. All daughters share 100% of their genes with their mother, minus mutation.

All identical twins are clones. There's about 8 primate species that only reproduce in twins - golden lion tamarins, for example.

I honestly wish people would learn more about biology before they make pretense to authoritative statements about it. It's just misleading behavior.

In case you're wondering, most social insects are not actually clones of each other.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#70541 Jan 10, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Or 'cause you're infertile and want kids.
Good enough reason right there.

O'course, it's gonna play holy hell with criminal forensics.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#70542 Jan 10, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Sez who?
What you get is a baby.
Totally! The first authorized human cloning will be for couples who cannot have kids, but want to.

I imagine some kind of "The Island" scenario as well, to be honest Although, it's more likely we'll figure out how to grow cloned material, perhaps even bodies, without brains to avoid ethical issues.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#70543 Jan 10, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Good enough reason right there.
O'course, it's gonna play holy hell with criminal forensics.
I imagine, by that time, you'll be able to get a rough read from the DNA on how old the individual is based on teleomere length. Or perhaps we'll add some kind of 666 genetic marking

;)

Plus, the parent is probably going to have a good alibi or be too old to actually carry out a crime when the evil child commits the terrible crime.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#70544 Jan 10, 2013
Cybele wrote:
Seriously, WTF.
inorite?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#70545 Jan 10, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>If it could be made acephalic from the beginning....
O'course, by that point, we should be able to just grow the parts separately.
What joy would an evil mad scientist with designs on global domination get out of that? When I make a clone he will be doubly cephalic, just so that he can suffer more. Muwha-ha-ha ah cough choke gag .... Cloney? I really didn't mean it..

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#70546 Jan 10, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, you're mistaken. Lots of plants can create clones or sexually reproduce. They decide which to do based on the environmental conditions around them. In favorable conditions, clone. In poor conditions, sexually reproduce.
Some lizard species are 100% clones - no male offspring, only females. All daughters share 100% of their genes with their mother, minus mutation.
All identical twins are clones. There's about 8 primate species that only reproduce in twins - golden lion tamarins, for example.
I honestly wish people would learn more about biology before they make pretense to authoritative statements about it. It's just misleading behavior.
In case you're wondering, most social insects are not actually clones of each other.
Don't female bees have the equivalent to the "y"chromosome in insects? I read an article about their breeding habits and it was a bit on the weird side.

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