Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 209490 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#69874 Jan 4, 2013
bohart wrote:
So mankind murders millions in wars, aborts the unborn , starves his fellow man to death for profit , rapes, steals, burns and it's Gods fault? Why?
Because he allegedly created it all. If only he didn't make that evil talking lizard...
bohart wrote:
because he doesn't intervene to stop man from doing what he wants?
Free will is an illusion under omnipotent omniscience.
bohart wrote:
And if he did intervene ,and put an end to all evil and violence and left man alone again ,he'd be doing the same evil again in less than a couple generations.
You mean god? Yes he would.
bohart wrote:
It is what we are that is the problem.
So you're saying your god is incapable of preventing us from being bad?

What a wuss.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#69875 Jan 4, 2013
neutral observer wrote:
<quoted text>
Would I take an interest in the lives of gnats? Seriously?
But I have no reason to believe such a higher intelligence exists so not a deist. Besides if a higher intelligence did create the universe I would define it not as God but as something that had evolved in a prior universe.
On the other hand evolution is not random. There is intelligent design. Those birds blown to remote islands did not evolve randomly but instead changed to fill particular niches... just as brown bears on the arctic ice sheet evolved into polar bears. Unlike some Darwinists I see nothing happenstance about it.
Natural selection is neither random nor intelligent. "Intelligence" is NOT the opposite of random.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#69876 Jan 4, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
But then what would some have God do?...sit on the top of the world and reign with an an iron fist?
According to your own book it will.
TheIndependentMa jority

Mount Vernon, KY

#69877 Jan 4, 2013
Thomas Robertson wrote:
thewordofme wrote:

Forming a hypothesis has served very well as a starting point for countless experiments, and it will serve very well as a starting point for countless experiments to come.
Therefore, Science has LONg time been based on much of what has OFTEN been "unseen".

1. I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details.
2. Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.
3. My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.
4. The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge.
5. Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.
6. The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.
7. There is no logical way to the discovery of elemental laws. There is only the way of intuition, which is helped by a feeling for the order lying behind the appearance.
8. The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
9, The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.
10. We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality.

11. Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods.
(Ohhhh-now THAT's a REALLy good one too lolo)
and on with th list--
When the solution is simple, God is answering.

God does not play dice with the universe.
God is subtle but he is not malicious.

A human being is a part of the whole, called by us Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest-a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.


The man who regards his own life and that of his fellow creatures as meaningless is not merely unfortunate but almost disqualified for life.

Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.(Nice one number Three!)

Only a life lived for others is a life worth while.(often very true!)

The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books—-a mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects.

TheIndependentMa jority

Mount Vernon, KY

#69878 Jan 4, 2013
Continiued-

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a HOLY curiosity.

What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism.
The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion. Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science. Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment and lives in a state of fear is a dead man. To know that what is impenetrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties - this knowledge, this feeling ... that is the core of the true religious sentiment. In this sense, and in this sense alone, I rank myself among profoundly religious men.
The real problem is in the hearts and minds of men. It is easier to denature plutonium than to denature the evil spirit of man.
True religion is real living; living with all one’s soul, with all one’s goodness and righteousness.
Intelligence makes clear to us the interrelationship of means and ends. But mere thinking cannot give us a sense of the ultimate and fundamental ends. To make clear these fundamental ends and valuations and to set them fast in the emotional life of the individual, seems to me precisely the most important function which religion has to form in the social life of man.

ALL of the above-quotes from Albert Eisntein.

(so don't try and pretend... and rewrite HISTORY-because you'd only be LYING about it!!)

"Gaw some of you "trekkies" can be soooo DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH uuhhhh mm, sometimes"
TheIndependentMa jority

Mount Vernon, KY

#69879 Jan 4, 2013
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a HOLY curiosity.

What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism.
The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion. Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science. Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment and lives in a state of fear is a dead man. To know that what is impenetrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties - this knowledge, this feeling ... that is the core of the true religious sentiment. In this sense, and in this sense alone, I rank myself among profoundly religious men.
The real problem is in the hearts and minds of men. It is easier to denature plutonium than to denature the evil spirit of man.
True religion is real living; living with all one’s soul, with all one’s goodness and righteousness.
Intelligence makes clear to us the interrelationship of means and ends. But mere thinking cannot give us a sense of the ultimate and fundamental ends. To make clear these fundamental ends and valuations and to set them fast in the emotional life of the individual, seems to me precisely the most important function which religion has to form in the social life of man.

Gaw some of you trekkies are DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH uuhhhh mm.
TheIndependentMa jority

Mount Vernon, KY

#69880 Jan 4, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
It's the shirt. It does look like Captain Kirk's old uniform.
And according to Mikey, Noah may have worn one just like it.
Never noah, he mighta coulda :-)
TheIndependentMa jority

Mount Vernon, KY

#69881 Jan 4, 2013
Thomas Robertson wrote:
thewordofme wrote:
Faith is believing something with no evidence. I don't do that, why do you??
The Independent Majority wrote:
If Science felt that way, they'd all still be stuck, sitting in kindergarten sandboxes, twying to see how many make mud pies they culd makes, with they little plaskit pails of puddwle wahter.
I don't know where IM gets that idea.
I thought that Science DID feel that way,
and I don't see how it could keep science in a state of stagnation.
Lack of faith never stopped anyone from forming hypotheses, and it certainly never kept scientists from testing those hypotheses.
Forming a hypothesis has served very well as a starting point for countless experiments, and it will serve very well as a starting point for countless experiments to come.
and I'm not going to try and explain Anything else to you, because no doubt, such would require headless props or something lol.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#69882 Jan 4, 2013
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
God does not play dice with the universe.
Stop telling God what to do.
FREE SERVANT
#69883 Jan 4, 2013
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
Never noah, he mighta coulda :-)
Now thats the funniest one this year,so far,,,,
TheIndependentMa jority

Mount Vernon, KY

#69884 Jan 4, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Stop telling God what to do.
Listen DUHMmy, I didn't write the quotes-I just copied them.

(and besides I KNOW better than that IGNORANCE!)

So there.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#69885 Jan 4, 2013
I guess that told me.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#69886 Jan 4, 2013
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
Your avatar just looky like a "trekky".
Simple enough?:-)
Latest news from CERN (the European org for nuclear research)
-------
It has been said that the operation is going to get closed for maintenance purposes. Experts known to the matter have affirmed that the LHC will resume working by 2015. Its revival will witness some more features added to the same, as it will witness rise in collision energy, rise in power.
Not only this, it has also been revealed that its luminosity will also be increased.
The particle, which is also known as God's Particle was made by the European Organization for Nuclear Research CERN.
Experts said that there is a reason for calling the particle to be God's Particle, as the discovery is said to the building block, which provides mass to any substance present in the universe....
Maledevic, I. CERN’s Large Hadron Collider to Take 2 Years’ Break. TopnewsUS. 1/3/2013
----------
Huh..Well fancy that descriptive-right out of the mouth of SCIENCE.
Now we're talking....about (LHC) Large Hard-on Colliders

Do partycles have mass? I have yet to see the animation of this theory but first, scientists should be able to see inside that tunnel machine by putting cameras in there. lol. It's a giant roller coaster. Now take us for a ride...tunnel vision!
TheIndependentMa jority

Mount Vernon, KY

#69887 Jan 4, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Now we're talking....about (LHC) Large Hard-on Colliders
Do partycles have mass? I have yet to see the animation of this theory but first, scientists should be able to see inside that tunnel machine by putting cameras in there. lol. It's a giant roller coaster. Now take us for a ride...tunnel vision!
CERN may have a question and answer page for kids..try that!
TheIndependentMa jority

Mount Vernon, KY

#69888 Jan 4, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Now we're talking....about (LHC) Large Hard-on Colliders
Do partycles have mass? I have yet to see the animation of this theory but first, scientists should be able to see inside that tunnel machine by putting cameras in there. lol. It's a giant roller coaster. Now take us for a ride...tunnel vision!
(we here in the US have other arrangements for sociopathically warped pedophile types ...they call them jails.)

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#69889 Jan 4, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Before "which" can be asked, one must first provide evidence that one exists. This has not been done, so "what" is more appropriate.
You are an example of a philosophical existence. We know WHAT you are but one must ask WHICH one truly exists, the male or female?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Indianapolis, IN

#69890 Jan 4, 2013
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
You've never asked. Just saying.
I did.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#69891 Jan 4, 2013
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
CERN may have a question and answer page for kids..try that!
We need a tunnel vision understanding before we can spec-ulate on the level of particles.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Indianapolis, IN

#69892 Jan 4, 2013
Here ye go, bub:
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
I am. Are you actually suggesting that all forms of communication involves psychological projection? That has a very specific definition. If that is your claim, I'll like to hear something in the way of an explanation.

Level 1

Since: Apr 09

Elmont, Long Island NY

#69893 Jan 4, 2013
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
ALL of the above-quotes from Albert Eisntein.
(so don't try and pretend... and rewrite HISTORY-because you'd only be LYING about it!!)
"Gaw some of you "trekkies" can be soooo DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH uuhhhh mm, sometimes"
Einstein said he believed in the god of Baruch Spinoza, but not in a personal god, a belief he criticized. He also called himself an agnostic, and criticized atheism, preferring he said "an attitude of humility."

Baruch Spinoza
In a letter to Henry Oldenburg he states that: "as to the view of certain people that I identify god with nature (taken as a kind of mass or corporeal matter), they are quite mistaken". For Spinoza, our universe (cosmos) is a mode under two attributes of Thought and Extension. God has infinitely many other attributes which are not present in our world. According to German philosopher Karl Jaspers, when Spinoza wrote "Deus sive Natura" (God or Nature) Spinoza meant God was Natura naturans not Natura naturata, and Jaspers believed that Spinoza, in his philosophical system, did not mean to say that God and Nature are interchangeable terms, but rather that God's transcendence was attested by his infinitely many attributes, and that two attributes known by humans, namely Thought and Extension, signified God's immanence. Even God under the attributes of thought and extension cannot be identified strictly with our world. That world is of course "divisible"; it has parts. But Spinoza insists that "no attribute of a substance can be truly conceived from which it follows that the substance can be divided" (Which means that one cannot conceive an attribute in a way that leads to division of substance), and that "a substance which is absolutely infinite is indivisible" (Ethics, Part I, Propositions 12 and 13). Following this logic, our world should be considered as a mode under two attributes of thought and extension. Therefore the pantheist formula "One and All" would apply to Spinoza only if the "One" preserves its transcendence and the "All" were not interpreted as the totality of finite things.

French philosopher Martial Guéroult suggested the term "Panentheism", rather than "Pantheism" to describe Spinoza’s view of the relation between God and the world. The world is not God, but it is, in a strong sense, "in" God. Not only do finite things have God as their cause; they cannot be conceived without God. In other words, the world is a subset of God. American philosopher Charles Hartshorne, on the other hand, suggested the term "Classical Pantheism" to describe Spinoza's philosophy.

Spinoza's "God or Nature" [Deus sive Natura] provided a living, natural God, in contrast to the Newtonian mechanical "First Cause" or the dead mechanism of the French "Man Machine." Coleridge and Shelley saw in Spinoza's philosophy a religion of nature and called him the "God-intoxicated Man." Spinoza inspired the poet Shelley to write his essay "The Necessity of Atheism."

Spinoza was considered to be an atheist because he used the word "God" [Deus] to signify a concept that was different from that of traditional Judeo–Christian monotheism.

"Spinoza expressly denies personality and consciousness to God; he has neither intelligence, feeling, nor will;
he does not act according to purpose,
but everything follows necessarily from his nature, according to law...." Thus, Spinoza's cool, indifferent God is the antithesis to the concept of an anthropomorphic, fatherly God who cares about humanity.

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