Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

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“I Am No One Else”

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#69456
Jan 1, 2013
 
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
my point?...my point is that people that you claim to be primitive... because of the lack of today's science, were not as primitive as you think.
So, where are the algorithms they produced that demonstrate how something comes from nothing? Where do they show the 12 particles of matter and four forces of nature? Where do they state that stars are furnaces producing the heavier elements the rest of the universe is made of from the simpler lighter elements? Where do they outline working theories on how electricity functions? Where are their lightbulbs?

“Somewhere in time...”

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#69457
Jan 1, 2013
 
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
my point?...my point is that people that you claim to be primitive... because of the lack of today's science, were not as primitive as you think.
In fact, science is just now catching up to concepts that are thousands of years old...which is actually quite funny if you think about it...LMAO

“Pancakes and eggs...”

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#69458
Jan 1, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
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What "signs," you fail to see, there are no "signs" of any deity, there are just assertions lacking evidence. You'd wager a bet of your entire existence on a one in a million odds? Atheists choose red, you religious folks are choosing one number ... our of millions. We have 50-50 odds, you are reducing your odds to 1 in a million, all based on a "hunch." Hunches are what make gamblers broke, and cops dead.
Even all that aside, if you're wrong, you waste your life while the atheist leaves a mark. That mark is the only true immortality that we know of, end of story.
Now that's a self serving stretch to say that to believe in a God or Savior, that your life is 'wasted'...

Heck, Algebra or the concept of, was began be Muslims...

I don't know anyone of faith, who feels their life is 'wasted' believing in a higher diety...and whom can be found in all fields of life, from politics to medical practitionors to pilots to civic leaders, to civil rights leaders to school teachers, athletes...

How is Tim Tebow wasteing his life?

Seems to me, many who are spiritual get far more out of life than the cold lifeless inner soul of some Athiest...

So I reject that notion that Athiest someone get more out of life by being so close minded...

“I Am No One Else”

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#69459
Jan 1, 2013
 
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
You deny your own science because you cannot except the possibility of "God"...when in fact you state that " anything can come from nothing "
So what you are really saying is "anything can come from nothing, except "God"
No, you are stating that only your god can come from nothing. I am stating we have no evidence of your god therefore the claim can be dismissed.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

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#69460
Jan 1, 2013
 
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
my point?...my point is that people that you claim to be primitive... because of the lack of today's science, were not as primitive as you think.
Are you sure that you're not miscalculating the investment that science represents?

Granted, building the Pyramids or Stonehenge sounds amazing when accomplished by stone age peoples, but why don't we think through the likelihood of a respectable, but not amazing, lever and pulley system available to people of those times?

Very few things are amazing, just new and different. Sometimes the old appears to be new again.

From the point of view of holy books, I think that they partially represent a collective work of politics. As KK noted, Roman and Greek gods were like political parties. Their stories were a product of collective popular culture. Eventually, mythologies based on "one true God" that also included a divide-and-conquer myth became the absolute fashion and were refined over millennia, having elements co-opted from one faith into the next.

There's nothing "infinite" about them, our scholars often can't get their heads around the whole thing so they exploit the glitter of it all. I don't have to accept it just because I can't recite every page of the thing!

“Pancakes and eggs...”

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#69461
Jan 1, 2013
 
When i see folks gathered around for Xmas...filling up churches, participating in civic activities, and 'worshipping' or 'praising' God, or his principles, or listening to gospel channels, and all the talented musicians, and or ministries...

I don't see anyone who looks like they're 'wasteing' their life...to me, from an observer, their lives seem to be more enriched and have more meaning, than your average sour souled 'we come from rocks and shall return to rocks' athiest...
anonymous

Franklin, PA

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#69462
Jan 1, 2013
 
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
In fact, science is just now catching up to concepts that are thousands of years old...which is actually quite funny if you think about it...LMAO
Can you give me an example?

“Somewhere in time...”

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#69463
Jan 1, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not a fan of any religion, but as for the science fiction, never read it. I prefer more scientific authors like Asimov and Lovecraft.
"the left side of the brain is the seat of language and processes in a logical and sequential order."

The right side is more visual and processes intuitively, holistically, and randomly. Most people seem to have a dominant side."

You seem to be dominantly left brained to an extreme.

Which explains alot of things( not that there's anything wrong with that)

“I Am No One Else”

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#69464
Jan 1, 2013
 
Time and Space wrote:
<quoted text>
Now that's a self serving stretch to say that to believe in a God or Savior, that your life is 'wasted'...
Heck, Algebra or the concept of, was began be Muslims...
I don't know anyone of faith, who feels their life is 'wasted' believing in a higher diety...and whom can be found in all fields of life, from politics to medical practitionors to pilots to civic leaders, to civil rights leaders to school teachers, athletes...
How is Tim Tebow wasteing his life?
Seems to me, many who are spiritual get far more out of life than the cold lifeless inner soul of some Athiest...
So I reject that notion that Athiest someone get more out of life by being so close minded...
Tim was wasting his life, he's a sports star, a pretty pointless career choice that results in loss of brain cells and health.

Now back to the actual topic at hand. Wasting one's life worshiping something that has no evidence to support it in the hopes that you are correct is a waste of time, and therefore a waste of your life. So yes, following a deity of any sort without first requesting evidence to support it is a waste of your life. In the mean time us atheists are spending our free time learning, with open minds, about ... well ... everything.

The irony is that your entire counter argument is based on more assertions and zero evidence, so you still fail to make a counter argument at all just based on that fact. Ancient Egyptians had advanced geometry, yet we don't assert their religions are true. They ironically also have way more supporting evidence for their gods than any of the more modern ones. Aztecs had advanced astronomy, but you don't assert their gods are true, why not? They had more evidence of their gods as well, using your standards of course.

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#69465
Jan 1, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
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No, you are stating that only your god can come from nothing. I am stating we have no evidence of your god therefore the claim can be dismissed.
you keep saying "your" God...like God would be some kind of material possession...

"you are stating that only your god can come from nothing"...

I did?...where did I say that?

“Somewhere in time...”

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#69466
Jan 1, 2013
 
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>Can you give me an example?
The example was already given.

“Pancakes and eggs...”

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#69467
Jan 1, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
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No, you are stating that only your god can come from nothing. I am stating we have no evidence of your god therefore the claim can be dismissed.
And as I said before...if there is a 'whooosh'...after it's all done and said...then what?

Like the person who stands on the beach, waiting for visual proof of that tidal wave, instead of evacuating the beach like others who saw signs...

"oh no...I need physical proof that a tidal wave exists"

Now here comes the wave, you have your proof...now what?

And what about others you have talked into standing on the beach with you...how will your doubt, or words, comfort them at that moment when the proof you so saught after is upon you...

Better to evacuate for nothing, than to stand there in the face of oblivion.

Cause at that moment, your words of doubt won't mean nothing, or provide any comfort to those you led to the beach head with you, and too are about to face oblivion...

Yes it's a hypathetical, but has real life implications...

“I Am No One Else”

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#69468
Jan 1, 2013
 
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
"the left side of the brain is the seat of language and processes in a logical and sequential order."
The right side is more visual and processes intuitively, holistically, and randomly. Most people seem to have a dominant side."
You seem to be dominantly left brained to an extreme.
Which explains alot of things( not that there's anything wrong with that)
Interesting ...
http://www.youtube.com/user/kittenkoder

My current project is a video game, I had to learn how to put my artwork into 3D actually, thus that entire channel's existence, I was practicing sculpting on a computer in place of using clay or various other materials. I'm a music critique as well, well not a publishing critique, I help musicians who are just starting out by offering them tips on how to improve their quality. Of course I'd rather be the artist, thus my pride and joy, the one video that I finally achieved my goal of sculpting on a digital format:

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

I also play all woodwinds, was recruited for school band but it never interested me as much as sculpting, if only I got along with the idiotic art teachers that thought only one type of art was actually art. I am a table top gamemaster as well, as in, I create the stories and plots for the players to enjoy. Pretty popular in my heyday, such a high demand players actually paid my rent a lot so I could run more games more often. That was my favorite form of art, the character development and tales we could create.

You should avoid making assumptions, I know it's a habit, but assumptions tend to fail more often than not. Psychoanalysis isn't even accurate all the time, it's only about 75% accurate actually, thus why psychiatry is not a real science.

“I Am No One Else”

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#69469
Jan 1, 2013
 
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
you keep saying "your" God...like God would be some kind of material possession...
"you are stating that only your god can come from nothing"...
I did?...where did I say that?
No, it's your claim, until demonstrated otherwise "god" is nothing but a claim, and not a very good one as it lacks in definitive description. Saying "your god" is pointing out that I am addressing your specific claim out of the millions of others. You can attempt to usurp the label just for your claim, but the other claims are just as valid as yours still. Until one specific claim is demonstrated more valid, all are just as valid.

“Somewhere in time...”

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#69470
Jan 1, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting ...
http://www.youtube.com/user/kittenkoder
My current project is a video game, I had to learn how to put my artwork into 3D actually, thus that entire channel's existence, I was practicing sculpting on a computer in place of using clay or various other materials. I'm a music critique as well, well not a publishing critique, I help musicians who are just starting out by offering them tips on how to improve their quality. Of course I'd rather be the artist, thus my pride and joy, the one video that I finally achieved my goal of sculpting on a digital format:
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
I also play all woodwinds, was recruited for school band but it never interested me as much as sculpting, if only I got along with the idiotic art teachers that thought only one type of art was actually art. I am a table top gamemaster as well, as in, I create the stories and plots for the players to enjoy. Pretty popular in my heyday, such a high demand players actually paid my rent a lot so I could run more games more often. That was my favorite form of art, the character development and tales we could create.
You should avoid making assumptions, I know it's a habit, but assumptions tend to fail more often than not. Psychoanalysis isn't even accurate all the time, it's only about 75% accurate actually, thus why psychiatry is not a real science.
I did say you seemed...which was implied by your posts.

“Pancakes and eggs...”

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#69471
Jan 1, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Tim was wasting his life, he's a sports star, a pretty pointless career choice that results in loss of brain cells and health.
Now back to the actual topic at hand. Wasting one's life worshiping something that has no evidence to support it in the hopes that you are correct is a waste of time, and therefore a waste of your life. So yes, following a deity of any sort without first requesting evidence to support it is a waste of your life. In the mean time us atheists are spending our free time learning, with open minds, about ... well ... everything.
The irony is that your entire counter argument is based on more assertions and zero evidence, so you still fail to make a counter argument at all just based on that fact. Ancient Egyptians had advanced geometry, yet we don't assert their religions are true. They ironically also have way more supporting evidence for their gods than any of the more modern ones. Aztecs had advanced astronomy, but you don't assert their gods are true, why not? They had more evidence of their gods as well, using your standards of course.
Tebow is not wasting his life, he's earning millions now, that he won't have to labor to earn lator...and he'll be a valuable marketing commodity all throughout his life, long after his football career has ended...

Yes, we getting kind of side tracked...

But your assertion that people somehow 'waste' their life by believing in and or relating to 'God' or 'Jesus the savior'...is invalid...

On the contrary...many peoples lives are way more fulfilled, when brought into the fold of believers...just through community interaction...and being around others who celebrate higher principles...

That I do have proof and evidence of...I don't see very many sour faced Christians...

But that's not to say all religions lead to that...
Some religions indeed can be unhealthy...just depends on the leadership or motive of the person who started any given particular sect...

“I Am No One Else”

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#69472
Jan 1, 2013
 
Time and Space wrote:
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And as I said before...if there is a 'whooosh'...after it's all done and said...then what?
Like the person who stands on the beach, waiting for visual proof of that tidal wave, instead of evacuating the beach like others who saw signs...
"oh no...I need physical proof that a tidal wave exists"
Now here comes the wave, you have your proof...now what?
And what about others you have talked into standing on the beach with you...how will your doubt, or words, comfort them at that moment when the proof you so saught after is upon you...
Better to evacuate for nothing, than to stand there in the face of oblivion.
Cause at that moment, your words of doubt won't mean nothing, or provide any comfort to those you led to the beach head with you, and too are about to face oblivion...
Yes it's a hypathetical, but has real life implications...
Funny you use the tidal wave as an example. To demonstrate how such an example fails miserably here's visual evidence a tidal wave is about to happen:

The water for the massive wave must come from somewhere, water nearby is much easier to move so the water from the nearby locales are gathered by the wave's energy. Standing on a beach just before one you will see this effect, the water line recedes quit quickly to almost the edge of the shelf, which is often farther than most people can see, up to twenty minutes before the wave itself hits the shelf. The actual wave is the result of the massive amount of water hitting that specific shelf, actually. Pushing the water up with the force of the event. The water then beings to rush in, but not suddenly, you see it "rise" quickly but it takes a while to actually return to the point it was just before it finally breaks inland. Anyone on the beach will know of a tidal wave about the same time seismologists know of it.

Anyhow, there would still be evidence to support the tidal wave, there is no evidence supporting your claim. That's the big difference. The seismologists prove to be more and more reliable each time, yet even they make mistakes in their evidence enough to cause catastrophes. It's not their fault, if they went crying wolf at every single undersea earthquake, people would stop listening, and rightfully so. There are thousands of undersea earthquakes every year, but only once in a while do they have enough of an effect to cause catastrophe.

So if you could just demonstrate reliably that your god exists, then you will have something to cry wolf about, until then, your many empty wolf cries are demonstrating your claim is fallacious.

“Somewhere in time...”

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#69473
Jan 1, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
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No, it's your claim, until demonstrated otherwise "god" is nothing but a claim, and not a very good one as it lacks in definitive description. Saying "your god" is pointing out that I am addressing your specific claim out of the millions of others. You can attempt to usurp the label just for your claim, but the other claims are just as valid as yours still. Until one specific claim is demonstrated more valid, all are just as valid.
Actually your putting words in my mouth that I didn't say to justify your own belief system...

please quote me to validate your claim.

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#69474
Jan 1, 2013
 
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
You deny your own science because you cannot except the possibility of "God"...when in fact you state that " anything can come from nothing "
So what you are really saying is "anything can come from nothing, except "God"

No, you are stating that only your god can come from nothing. I am stating we have no evidence of your god therefore the claim can be dismissed.

where?

“Pancakes and eggs...”

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#69475
Jan 1, 2013
 
Correction :Yes we're getting kind of side tracked...

(it's the key pad, or these apps on here, that make the key pad hesitate)

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