Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

“Pancakes and eggs...”

Level 4

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#69369 Dec 31, 2012
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, I don't believe it ever happened. There are just too many holes and inconsistencies in the whole God thing, and to be honest I really doubt the Jesus story. What with knowing that the Adam and Eve story is just a myth and they didn't exist...what need was there for him. No 'Original Sin' equals no need for a 'human' sacrifice to atone for non-existent 'Original Sin'.
But 'you' happened...so what makes you think 'God' could not have 'happened' also?

“Pancakes and eggs...”

Level 4

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#69370 Dec 31, 2012
'God' simply being used as a generic term for higher beings...for the sake of this discussion...

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#69371 Dec 31, 2012
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
My point is that marriage should not be a government function. The government should not endorse one behavior over another and civil unions and marriage should carry the same legal status but no legal or economic privilege, period.
So no need for laws?

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#69372 Dec 31, 2012
I think Science will become the new religion of future generations. That's the only way to save the evolution of our species.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#69373 Dec 31, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
So no need for laws?
Well, that escalated quickly!

I think marriage is an oath that is best enforced by the religious community, not the state. Let the state deal with the legal complications, whether in a civil union or a marriage. Let the state stay out of the morality issue and the religious endorsement of the conditions of a marriage.

The gays can't tell the church to marry them. The state can't wave a wand, demanding that churches recognize state marriages. Nobody gets tax breaks or inheritance breaks for marriage and no legal segue for turning gay marriage into affirmative action or hate crime laws. Makes sense yet?

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#69374 Dec 31, 2012
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, but is that actually a biological phenomena, or is it an attempt to communicate something that one fears rejection of?
I only take Freud in bits and pieces. Same defense mechanism, different judgement from the outside world. Just trying to be fair and balanced.
It's a different matter entirely. The wiki gives a pretty good description so I won't repeat that part.

Let's take something we all know on here well enough, I will refrain from referencing specific persons or posts though:

Take someone who is overly sexual, either because that's how they are or because they have been brainwashed into thinking that's how they should be. The brainwashing version is actually quite typical of women in the US, they like to fill our heads with this "women should be sensual" bull and give us "baby" dolls as young girls to enforce it.

So they become overly sexual and deep down feel shame for that as well, a side effect of religious doctrine. Thus they over sexualize everything, to them everything has to be about sex because that's all they believe they should think about, but they struggle with the "teaching" that it's wrong to think about it so they feel guilty in some way.

Along comes someone who shows no sexual urges, no drive at all, so they try to find anything they can to call sexual, even when there is nothing sexual about it, as a way to say, in their mind, "that person likes sex a lot so I must be 'normal'." Even though outwardly they'll say things like "that's a sin and you should be ashamed of it." I also call it "forced common ground," because they are trying to bridge a gap that's not even there by using their own traits completely ignoring any possibility that the other person has different traits.

I hope I explained it well and didn't ramble too much. Psychology is a fascinating subject, and seeing such a strong case of any psychological trait in a single person spikes my interest in them.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#69375 Dec 31, 2012
Time and Space wrote:
'God' simply being used as a generic term for higher beings...for the sake of this discussion...
Then you shouldn't use the christian colloquial in the conversation.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#69376 Dec 31, 2012
Time and Space wrote:
<quoted text>
But 'you' happened...so what makes you think 'God' could not have 'happened' also?
Here's what you missed, it's not the possibility of a god existing that is the problem, it's the claims of specific gods existing that are fallacious. Until evidence is provided the only sane, and intelligent, thing to do is to dismiss it until evidence is provided. Believing in something without evidence is called delusion.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#69377 Dec 31, 2012
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>Well, that escalated quickly!
I think marriage is an oath that is best enforced by the religious community, not the state. Let the state deal with the legal complications, whether in a civil union or a marriage. Let the state stay out of the morality issue and the religious endorsement of the conditions of a marriage.
The gays can't tell the church to marry them. The state can't wave a wand, demanding that churches recognize state marriages. Nobody gets tax breaks or inheritance breaks for marriage and no legal segue for turning gay marriage into affirmative action or hate crime laws. Makes sense yet?
I don't believe in marriage. period. I don't know why women fantasize about this fairy tale of meeting their prince charles. I'm not into that thing.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#69378 Dec 31, 2012
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
My point is that marriage should not be a government function. The government should not endorse one behavior over another and civil unions and marriage should carry the same legal status but no legal or economic privilege, period.
I actually agree here, I say get marriage out of the laws completely, no more regulation, no more messy and stupid laws, bans, or regulations needed. Straight or gay, if they want to get married, great, have at it. Without the laws it doesn't matter.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#69379 Dec 31, 2012
One of those sexual organs is the human brain, which determines whether we're attracted to members of the same sex or members of the opposite sex.
Cybele wrote:
Are you referring to intellectual intercourse?
No.
Cybele wrote:
So you think the brain is a sexual organ?
I do indeed.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#69380 Dec 31, 2012
anonymous wrote:
I think marriage is an oath that is best enforced by the religious community, not the state.
Even atheists marry.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#69381 Dec 31, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a different matter entirely. The wiki gives a pretty good description so I won't repeat that part.
Let's take something we all know on here well enough, I will refrain from referencing specific persons or posts though:
Take someone who is overly sexual, either because that's how they are or because they have been brainwashed into thinking that's how they should be. The brainwashing version is actually quite typical of women in the US, they like to fill our heads with this "women should be sensual" bull and give us "baby" dolls as young girls to enforce it.
So they become overly sexual and deep down feel shame for that as well, a side effect of religious doctrine. Thus they over sexualize everything, to them everything has to be about sex because that's all they believe they should think about, but they struggle with the "teaching" that it's wrong to think about it so they feel guilty in some way.
Along comes someone who shows no sexual urges, no drive at all, so they try to find anything they can to call sexual, even when there is nothing sexual about it, as a way to say, in their mind, "that person likes sex a lot so I must be 'normal'." Even though outwardly they'll say things like "that's a sin and you should be ashamed of it." I also call it "forced common ground," because they are trying to bridge a gap that's not even there by using their own traits completely ignoring any possibility that the other person has different traits.
I hope I explained it well and didn't ramble too much. Psychology is a fascinating subject, and seeing such a strong case of any psychological trait in a single person spikes my interest in them.
Well, I'll be honest, I think the sexual aspect you're describing is overly presumptive. People want to "belong" more than anything. If sexuality gets them attention, that's good enough for most people. Losing control of the subject causes them to reject sexuality as quickly as they embraced it.

Personally, I think you'll have different permutations of sexuality and evolutionary strategy, kind of like the Vulcan story where the logic of the species only increases the actual sexuality, which is kept suppressed as much as possible. The only real tangible variable is whether or not a species requires long term parental involvement in raising their young. That would limit the individual's will to keep procreating beyond their means to care for the young.

I tend to think that bible types are usually non-sexual people, but under stress, they can be forced to focus on sex, then kind of erupt in bizarre ways. Others can so easily achieve gratification that they have almost no interest in the idea of fantasy. All they really need is a lack of distraction and a quiet moment of privacy.

The Freudian idea of projection is muddled, as is most of Freud's work. There's something to be derived from it, but sexuality in his world is far more about accumulated experience than it is biology. I resist all of the Timothy Leerys and others who think drug use is part of a self-healing process. That's the mindset of aristocrats who just decide to change their "attitude" but have ABSOLUTELY no fear of the consequences.

The problem is that our current world is full of experimental drug users who either screwed themselves up worse, or cleared their minds through drugs, but most of us have no idea how they get from point A to point B. Heck, they barely remember!

We don't know how close to our own hard-wiring is to media-friendly know-it-alls to begin with. We don't know if they've experienced the same fears or were rewarded for their efforts in any way close to we were in our own efforts. For our own sakes, it's largely healthy to maintain a self-help point of view but we like to use someone else's feedback to assure ourselves that we aren't off course.
<cont>
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#69382 Dec 31, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a different matter entirely. The wiki gives a pretty good description so I won't repeat that part.
Let's take something we all know on here well enough, I will refrain from referencing specific persons or posts though:
Take someone who is overly sexual, either because that's how they are or because they have been brainwashed into thinking that's how they should be. The brainwashing version is actually quite typical of women in the US, they like to fill our heads with this "women should be sensual" bull and give us "baby" dolls as young girls to enforce it.
So they become overly sexual and deep down feel shame for that as well, a side effect of religious doctrine. Thus they over sexualize everything, to them everything has to be about sex because that's all they believe they should think about, but they struggle with the "teaching" that it's wrong to think about it so they feel guilty in some way.
Along comes someone who shows no sexual urges, no drive at all, so they try to find anything they can to call sexual, even when there is nothing sexual about it, as a way to say, in their mind, "that person likes sex a lot so I must be 'normal'." Even though outwardly they'll say things like "that's a sin and you should be ashamed of it." I also call it "forced common ground," because they are trying to bridge a gap that's not even there by using their own traits completely ignoring any possibility that the other person has different traits.
I hope I explained it well and didn't ramble too much. Psychology is a fascinating subject, and seeing such a strong case of any psychological trait in a single person spikes my interest in them.
Well, I'll be honest, I think the sexual aspect you're describing is overly presumptive. People want to "belong" more than anything. If sexuality gets them attention, that's good enough for most people. Losing control of the subject causes them to reject sexuality as quickly as they embraced it.

Personally, I think you'll have different permutations of sexuality and evolutionary strategy, kind of like the Vulcan story where the logic of the species only increases the actual sexuality, which is kept suppressed as much as possible. The only real tangible variable is whether or not a species requires long term parental involvement in raising their young. That would limit the individual's will to keep procreating beyond their means to care for the young.

I tend to think that bible types are usually non-sexual people, but under stress, they can be forced to focus on sex, then kind of erupt in bizarre ways. Others can so easily achieve gratification that they have almost no interest in the idea of fantasy. All they really need is a lack of distraction and a quiet moment of privacy.

The Freudian idea of projection is muddled, as is most of Freud's work. There's something to be derived from it, but sexuality in his world is far more about accumulated experience than it is biology. I resist all of the Timothy Leerys and others who think drug use is part of a self-healing process. That's the mindset of aristocrats who just decide to change their "attitude" but have ABSOLUTELY no fear of the consequences.

The problem is that our current world is full of experimental drug users who either screwed themselves up worse, or cleared their minds through drugs, but most of us have no idea how they get from point A to point B. Heck, they barely remember!

We don't know how close to our own hard-wiring is to media-friendly know-it-alls to begin with. We don't know if they've experienced the same fears or were rewarded for their efforts in any way close to we were in our own efforts. For our own sakes, it's largely healthy to maintain a self-help point of view but we like to use someone else's feedback to assure ourselves that we aren't off course.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#69383 Dec 31, 2012
Drew Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
Even atheists marry.
Or they can have a civil union.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#69384 Dec 31, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe in marriage. period. I don't know why women fantasize about this fairy tale of meeting their prince charles. I'm not into that thing.
Me neither, but some people seem to think marriage is part of the American dream. Whatever!
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#69385 Dec 31, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a different matter entirely. The wiki gives a pretty good description so I won't repeat that part.
Let's take something we all know on here well enough, I will refrain from referencing specific persons or posts though:
Take someone who is overly sexual, either because that's how they are or because they have been brainwashed into thinking that's how they should be. The brainwashing version is actually quite typical of women in the US, they like to fill our heads with this "women should be sensual" bull and give us "baby" dolls as young girls to enforce it.
So they become overly sexual and deep down feel shame for that as well, a side effect of religious doctrine. Thus they over sexualize everything, to them everything has to be about sex because that's all they believe they should think about, but they struggle with the "teaching" that it's wrong to think about it so they feel guilty in some way.
Along comes someone who shows no sexual urges, no drive at all, so they try to find anything they can to call sexual, even when there is nothing sexual about it, as a way to say, in their mind, "that person likes sex a lot so I must be 'normal'." Even though outwardly they'll say things like "that's a sin and you should be ashamed of it." I also call it "forced common ground," because they are trying to bridge a gap that's not even there by using their own traits completely ignoring any possibility that the other person has different traits.
I hope I explained it well and didn't ramble too much. Psychology is a fascinating subject, and seeing such a strong case of any psychological trait in a single person spikes my interest in them.
<cont>

I think it's characteristically Caucasian to respond defensively in complex social conditions. That doesn't mean they are paranoid. They just find everything to be an intuitive problem that will work itself out in the end. Well, at least in the U.S., that creates enough negative feedback over time that it creates more problems than it solves.

Personally, I think most people are riding a metaphorical horse that they fear will throw them. It really doesn't matter what they say or do. It's just the fear of the moment. I can't claim to have a solution other than to say what most therapists would say: "First, you have to WANT to get better."
Dozerman

Danville, WV

#69386 Dec 31, 2012
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Natural processes, of course.
No need at all for magic ones.
ok so what started the natural process were did it come from i mean if humans evolved from chimps or whatever were did the the chimp come from and why are they not still evolving
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#69387 Dec 31, 2012
Time and Space wrote:
'God' simply being used as a generic term for higher beings...for the sake of this discussion...
Still don't care about them freekin aliens.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#69388 Dec 31, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe in marriage. period. I don't know why women fantasize about this fairy tale of meeting their prince charles. I'm not into that thing.
Don't blame ya. I mean Prince Charles, come on...

:-/

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