Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

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“what we think we become”

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#68839
Dec 29, 2012
 
DanFromSmithville wrote:
I had an experience when I was 16 too. It was what I like to call an IBE.
what's that?

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#68840
Dec 29, 2012
 
Cybele wrote:
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Trauma-induced states are chemicals that triggers emotional response to a crisis. Drugs and alcohol triggers emotional response to a desire.
Not really. You ever see a person on PCP cut their own face off because of the insects beeneath it. I believe the desire was to feel good, the traumatic result was death.

Your definition isn't robust enough and doesn't include accidental or other intoxication that is not self induced. You are only thinking about drug use that is self administered to achieve a desired effect. That isn't the whole of the possiblities. So the possibility that trauma could be acting on the same areas of the brain as drugs and producing very similar perceptions still exists.

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#68841
Dec 29, 2012
 
Cybele wrote:
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you want to share?
let's just say something communicated with me on a level that I had never experience before or after and put me on a different path in life. Whatever it was receded into the sky and I remember hearing the sound of thunder as it left....all this happen within a second or two.

more than likely a hallucination of some sort...but sometimes I wonder...if ya know what I mean...lol

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#68842
Dec 29, 2012
 

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BraveCon wrote:
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Then why do so many of these NDEs involve going to Heaven? Why don't more people report having hallucinations that they traveled to say Egypt or China or to the Moon?
I believe all souls automatically go to Heaven after the moment of death. If/when their bodies are medically revived then their soul is sent back to their body.
You say NDEs, but I say NDEs are really brief experiences of the afterlife.
BS. I've experienced an NDE, as the brain begins (noticed I said BEGINS) to die from oxygen starvation(trauma, etc.) there are delusions, hallucinations, etc.

Heaven, what makes you think that, if so please cite your sources.

I know of no Muslim that 'visited' heaven, I've never heard of one single Chinese that got a glimpse of The Happy Hunting Grounds and do please enlighten me if on single xtian had a chat with Allah.

Near Death Experiences are just that....near. They are a medical phenomena with physical explanations.

Really, with modern medicine people who would have died can be rescued or revived. This stuff is several decades old and I really thought the 'mystical' garbage had long been discarded.

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#68843
Dec 29, 2012
 
Cybele wrote:
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It's hard to explain. You just know when it's happening. I don't deny it. I just separate it from the rational part of me. Have the best of both worlds. why not?
If you can't separate fantasy from reality, one would think you've got a bit of a problem....just sayin'

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#68844
Dec 29, 2012
 

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DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Not really. You ever see a person on PCP cut their own face off because of the insects beeneath it. I believe the desire was to feel good, the traumatic result was death.
Your definition isn't robust enough and doesn't include accidental or other intoxication that is not self induced. You are only thinking about drug use that is self administered to achieve a desired effect. That isn't the whole of the possiblities. So the possibility that trauma could be acting on the same areas of the brain as drugs and producing very similar perceptions still exists.
I don't agree. Someone takes a PCP to achieve a desired emotional or mental state. But because drugs can be toxic, it produces an undesirable side-effect just like any prescription drugs. Trauma doesn't trigger the same chemical response in the brain that drugs or alcohol do. Trauma actually is opposite of the effects of what drugs do to your brain. Trauma produces a negative effect such as pain or fear but because it triggers chemicals in the brain, the fight-or-flight response, it produces a good desired effect such as peace or positive sensation after reacting or responding to a crisis, it's why in NDE people actually survive death.

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#68845
Dec 29, 2012
 
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
let's just say something communicated with me on a level that I had never experience before or after and put me on a different path in life. Whatever it was receded into the sky and I remember hearing the sound of thunder as it left....all this happen within a second or two.
more than likely a hallucination of some sort...but sometimes I wonder...if ya know what I mean...lol
I've had something like that happen, something about the sky, even the stars the sun and moon had an effect on me.

It's just probably our bio-logical clock ticking and being in-tune or in synch with nature. Ancient people were very good at this. Call of nature, eh?

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#68846
Dec 29, 2012
 

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BraveCon wrote:
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This is another assertion, but how do you account for a mother somehow knowing that her child was just injured even though her child may be hundreds of miles away? I have heard of many stories like this and when the mother contacts her child, that child informs her that he/she did just suffer an injury, such as falling off a ladder while painting the house or burning their hand on the stove.
There's no scientific explaination for things like telepathy and other psychic events. I believe the only explaination for these psycic events is that its our souls that do the communicating.
Some mothers are more connected to their children than others.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm...

Shared cellular memory could be the reason.
Rose

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#68847
Dec 29, 2012
 

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BraveCon wrote:
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What about his wife and kids? They may want him to stick around so he can go on loving and supporting them.
They will see his was willing to die for his belief in Christianity, and maybe convert. At the very, very most, they will live another 100 years without him. And then they will end up in heaven, too. Right? What's that 100 years vs eternity?

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#68848
Dec 29, 2012
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I've had something like that happen, something about the sky, even the stars the sun and moon had an effect on me.
It's just probably our bio-logical clock ticking and being in-tune or in synch with nature. Ancient people were very good at this. Call of nature, eh?
yes I felt that too...again science would call that some kinda of illusory psychological state...but I'm not buying.lol

“Darwin was right..of course.”

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#68849
Dec 29, 2012
 
Cybele wrote:
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You don't think "interbreeding with Neanderthals" is not wild guessing? No one has directly observed them.
What do you mean..'nobody has directly observed them'?? Is that your evangelical fundamentalist bullsh!t argument? In your alternate universe nobody saw God's creation of the universe either and I don't see you denying that with no proof at all.

The fact that almost all humans on the face of the earth carry a small percentage of Neanderthal genes is factual proof. It also connects us to earlier hominids. We ARE in the line that includes the great apes.

That old argument is the lamest argument the religious fundamentalists have ever come up with...go back to school.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

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#68850
Dec 29, 2012
 
Time and Space wrote:
Just wondering...
If man could evolve from nothing...who's to say 'god' or a 'divine being' could not also have evolved from nothing?
Man did not evolve from 'nothing'. We evolved from the great apes, and they evolved from earlier hominids and so on back to the first germ or bacteria or whatever...3.5+- billion years ago.

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#68851
Dec 29, 2012
 
ever hear of the oceanic feeling?...didn't really know they had this defined in psychological terms until recently...lol

Oceanic feeling is a psychological term coined by Romain Rolland and popularized by Sigmund Freud in his books The Future of an Illusion and Civilization and Its Discontents to criticize the psychological feeling of religion, the "oceanic" feeling of limitlessness. According to Rolland's definition of the term, this feeling is the source of all religious energy which permeates in various religious systems. It is a sensation of an indissoluble bond, as of being connected with the external world in its integral form.[1] This feeling is an entirely subjective fact and is not an article of faith. Rolland's view is that one may justifiably call oneself religious on the basis of this oceanic feeling alone, regardless if the adherent renounces every belief and every illusion.[2] On the other hand, Freud cannot sympathize with such feeling since he admits he cannot find it in himself. It is not easy, he says, to analyze emotions scientifically. To Freud, this feeling is a fragment of infantile consciousness when the infant begins to differentiate himself from his human and non-human environment. In his opinion, there is not a strong enough need for it to be the source of all religious energy. Freud does not deny that this feeling may occur in people and offers a psychoanalytical explanation.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

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#68852
Dec 29, 2012
 
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
of course it's wild guessing...but if science wildly guesses to support a preconceived theory, it is more than likely accepted as fact.
Not a guess at all...read something outside of religious text sometime.

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#68853
Dec 29, 2012
 
all this from getting that warm fuzzy feeling when you look out into the ocean at the beach...lol

Psychoanalytical explanation

Freud argues that the "oceanic feeling", if it exists, is the preserved "primitive ego-feeling" from infancy. The primitive ego-feeling precedes the creation of the ego and exists up until the mother ceases breastfeeding. Prior to this, the infant is regularly breastfed in response to its crying and has no concept that the breast does not belong to it. Therefore, the infant has no concept of a "self" or, rather, considers the breast to be part of itself. Freud argues that those experiencing an oceanic feeling as an adult are actually experiencing a preserved primitive ego-feeling. The ego, in contrast, comes into existence when the breast is taken away, and involves the infant's recognition that it is separate from the mother's breast, and therefore, that other persons exist. Freud argues that it would not necessarily contradict psychoanalytical theory for this primary ego-feeling to coexist along with the ego in some people. The main argument for this is that psychoanalytical theory holds that all thoughts are preserved in a conservation of psychic energy. Therefore, the "oceanic feeling" described as a oneness with the world or a limitlessness is simply a description of the feeling the infant has before it learns there are other persons in the world.

Oceanic feeling
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceanic_feeling

“what we think we become”

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#68854
Dec 29, 2012
 
albtraum wrote:
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If you can't separate fantasy from reality, one would think you've got a bit of a problem....just sayin'
I said I separate my creative side from my rational side, in case you missed that. Everyone even a mad scientist has "fantasies" too. They're not robots, they're humans too.

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#68855
Dec 29, 2012
 

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thewordofme wrote:
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What do you mean..'nobody has directly observed them'?? Is that your evangelical fundamentalist bullsh!t argument? In your alternate universe nobody saw God's creation of the universe either and I don't see you denying that with no proof at all.
The fact that almost all humans on the face of the earth carry a small percentage of Neanderthal genes is factual proof. It also connects us to earlier hominids. We ARE in the line that includes the great apes.
That old argument is the lamest argument the religious fundamentalists have ever come up with...go back to school.
If you were my teacher I would drop out

“Darwin was right..of course.”

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#68856
Dec 29, 2012
 
Cybele wrote:
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What were the neanderthals doing in what is now called Belgium? How did they get there if all great apes originated in Africa? Can you fill in the gaps in your theory?
Neanderthals have been traced back from 350,000 to 500,000 years ago in Africa. Neanderthals left a trail of skeletons from Africa to Europe and Asia. There was found several skeletons of Neanderthals in Israel dated to 50,000 years ago and 100,000 years ago. The last ones apparently died of in the Spain area around 25,000 years ago.

All you have to do is google neanderthals, and an amazing amount of factual evidence is at your fingertips.

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#68857
Dec 29, 2012
 
thewordofme wrote:
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Not a guess at all...read something outside of religious text sometime.
really now...was that a wild guess about my reading habits?...lol

“Darwin was right..of course.”

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#68858
Dec 29, 2012
 
Cybele wrote:
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If you were my teacher I would drop out
Ever been to college?? When I was there centuries ago If you spouted a lame theory like that the hazing would never stop...this was long before Political Correctness took over the world.

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