Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 219579 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Never give up”

Level 1

Since: Dec 12

Avon, OH

#68825 Dec 29, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
For the exact same reason that lots of drunks see pink elephants and junkies see, and feel, bugs inside their skin. Same reason people think little green men sexually molest them. It's cultural iconography, what you see, or want to see, most often is what you are more likely to see when hallucinating.
A better question is, if there was more to NDEs, why is it that every single religious belief produces vastly different NDEs?
Drunks and junkies are alive when they have those hallucinations. I think its unfair to compare them to a person who is temporarily dead until they are medically revived via CPR or other methods.

'...why is it that every single religious belief produces vastly different NDEs?'

It might be that God lets souls experience the after-life in a way that won't make them doubt their religion when they re-enter their bodies. For example, if a Muslim dies and experiences a Christian Heaven and then returns to his body, he probably wouldn't want to tell his fellow Muslims that Heaven is a Christian Heaven. If he does, he might be beaten up and/or killed.

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#68826 Dec 29, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you saying you never experienced it? My experience is a bit more complicated. I'm just wired differently. It must be the type of conditioning I've become accustomed to.
Do you think that if the relevant brain structures were excised, you would continue to feel your "soul?"

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#68827 Dec 29, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
*yawn* More anthropomorphizing and nothing else. It's all anecdotal, correct.
there ya go projecting again...

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#68828 Dec 29, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I got into a car accident twice and it was almost fatal
But I know how one can survive it. The first one was some kind of mind over matter thing and the second involves human connection
But then again to you personal experience is not enough evidence, right?
Not to cast your personal experience in doubt, but it isn't enough to show that a near death experience is anything more than the results of a traumatic impact on the brain. We know that physical and chemical means can be used to alter perception or even radically alter the brain entirely to the point of damaging parts of it. The question I would ask is how do you know the difference between a physically induced response and a spiritual response. How an a person that is or has gone through a near death experience know that it wasn't simply a serious of short circuits induced by trauma to the brain. I would say that, despite what I would consider to be a very worldly source, it does not alter the impact that these experiences have on people. As I understand it they can be life altering, but I would argue that they are just that in part to what a person believes.

Are these near death experiences proof of an afterlife or just a psychological trick of physiological and traumatic origin. They might be a glimpse at the afterlife, but how would one really test that? I don't think you would be allowed to gather up a couple of hundred volunteers that would let you hit them on the head with a hammer. Even if you could, all you would really be testing is how much of an impact the human head can take.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#68829 Dec 29, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>As far as we know. Do you have evidence of any being/phenomenon that exists outside of the natural laws? Do you have evidence of any psychological state that can only be explained by the supernatural?
From what I understand...I believe the Quantum field might be outside natural laws.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#68830 Dec 29, 2012
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
wow... that just reminded me of an experience I had when I was about 16....it didn't recede back into the sky with the sound of thunder did it?
It was summer.

I could've imagined it thinking I was at my final seconds of my life, probably a mechanism that makes one react and hope that one can avoid something bad to happen. But my car suddenly stopped so whatever that was about, it worked.

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#68831 Dec 29, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
ESP could just be some form of chemical in the brain. I believe it's vital for our survival.
First you have to provide evidence for ESP before you start postulating on what causes it.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#68832 Dec 29, 2012
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
wow... that just reminded me of an experience I had when I was about 16
you want to share?

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#68833 Dec 29, 2012
BraveCon wrote:
<quoted text>
Drunks and junkies are alive when they have those hallucinations. I think its unfair to compare them to a person who is temporarily dead until they are medically revived via CPR or other methods.
'...why is it that every single religious belief produces vastly different NDEs?'
It might be that God lets souls experience the after-life in a way that won't make them doubt their religion when they re-enter their bodies. For example, if a Muslim dies and experiences a Christian Heaven and then returns to his body, he probably wouldn't want to tell his fellow Muslims that Heaven is a Christian Heaven. If he does, he might be beaten up and/or killed.
Well the point is that those that have had near death experiences are alive too. Otherwise it would be a completely dead experience.

It is a known phenomenon in toxicology and pharmacolgy, that a persons mood, experiences and mental state can have a tremendous impact on how they experience intoxication from various chemicals. Why would it be such a surprise that trauma-induced states would be any different. You go with what you know.
Rose

Santa Monica, CA

#68834 Dec 29, 2012
BraveCon wrote:
<quoted text>
Drunks and junkies are alive when they have those hallucinations. I think its unfair to compare them to a person who is temporarily dead until they are medically revived via CPR or other methods.
'...why is it that every single religious belief produces vastly different NDEs?'
It might be that God lets souls experience the after-life in a way that won't make them doubt their religion when they re-enter their bodies. For example, if a Muslim dies and experiences a Christian Heaven and then returns to his body, he probably wouldn't want to tell his fellow Muslims that Heaven is a Christian Heaven. If he does, he might be beaten up and/or killed.
Why would he care?
He'd get to go to heaven. Right?

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#68835 Dec 29, 2012
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Not to cast your personal experience in doubt, but it isn't enough to show that a near death experience is anything more than the results of a traumatic impact on the brain. We know that physical and chemical means can be used to alter perception or even radically alter the brain entirely to the point of damaging parts of it. The question I would ask is how do you know the difference between a physically induced response and a spiritual response. How an a person that is or has gone through a near death experience know that it wasn't simply a serious of short circuits induced by trauma to the brain. I would say that, despite what I would consider to be a very worldly source, it does not alter the impact that these experiences have on people. As I understand it they can be life altering, but I would argue that they are just that in part to what a person believes.
Are these near death experiences proof of an afterlife or just a psychological trick of physiological and traumatic origin. They might be a glimpse at the afterlife, but how would one really test that? I don't think you would be allowed to gather up a couple of hundred volunteers that would let you hit them on the head with a hammer. Even if you could, all you would really be testing is how much of an impact the human head can take.
It's hard to explain. You just know when it's happening. I don't deny it. I just separate it from the rational part of me. Have the best of both worlds. why not?

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#68836 Dec 29, 2012
I had an experience when I was 16 too. It was what I like to call an IBE.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#68837 Dec 29, 2012
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Well the point is that those that have had near death experiences are alive too. Otherwise it would be a completely dead experience.
It is a known phenomenon in toxicology and pharmacolgy, that a persons mood, experiences and mental state can have a tremendous impact on how they experience intoxication from various chemicals. Why would it be such a surprise that trauma-induced states would be any different. You go with what you know.
Trauma-induced states are chemicals that triggers emotional response to a crisis. Drugs and alcohol triggers emotional response to a desire.

“Never give up”

Level 1

Since: Dec 12

Avon, OH

#68838 Dec 29, 2012
Rose wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would he care?
He'd get to go to heaven. Right?
What about his wife and kids? They may want him to stick around so he can go on loving and supporting them.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#68839 Dec 29, 2012
DanFromSmithville wrote:
I had an experience when I was 16 too. It was what I like to call an IBE.
what's that?

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#68840 Dec 29, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Trauma-induced states are chemicals that triggers emotional response to a crisis. Drugs and alcohol triggers emotional response to a desire.
Not really. You ever see a person on PCP cut their own face off because of the insects beeneath it. I believe the desire was to feel good, the traumatic result was death.

Your definition isn't robust enough and doesn't include accidental or other intoxication that is not self induced. You are only thinking about drug use that is self administered to achieve a desired effect. That isn't the whole of the possiblities. So the possibility that trauma could be acting on the same areas of the brain as drugs and producing very similar perceptions still exists.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#68841 Dec 29, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
you want to share?
let's just say something communicated with me on a level that I had never experience before or after and put me on a different path in life. Whatever it was receded into the sky and I remember hearing the sound of thunder as it left....all this happen within a second or two.

more than likely a hallucination of some sort...but sometimes I wonder...if ya know what I mean...lol

“Exercise Your Brain”

Level 1

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#68842 Dec 29, 2012
BraveCon wrote:
<quoted text>
Then why do so many of these NDEs involve going to Heaven? Why don't more people report having hallucinations that they traveled to say Egypt or China or to the Moon?
I believe all souls automatically go to Heaven after the moment of death. If/when their bodies are medically revived then their soul is sent back to their body.
You say NDEs, but I say NDEs are really brief experiences of the afterlife.
BS. I've experienced an NDE, as the brain begins (noticed I said BEGINS) to die from oxygen starvation(trauma, etc.) there are delusions, hallucinations, etc.

Heaven, what makes you think that, if so please cite your sources.

I know of no Muslim that 'visited' heaven, I've never heard of one single Chinese that got a glimpse of The Happy Hunting Grounds and do please enlighten me if on single xtian had a chat with Allah.

Near Death Experiences are just that....near. They are a medical phenomena with physical explanations.

Really, with modern medicine people who would have died can be rescued or revived. This stuff is several decades old and I really thought the 'mystical' garbage had long been discarded.

“Exercise Your Brain”

Level 1

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#68843 Dec 29, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
It's hard to explain. You just know when it's happening. I don't deny it. I just separate it from the rational part of me. Have the best of both worlds. why not?
If you can't separate fantasy from reality, one would think you've got a bit of a problem....just sayin'

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#68844 Dec 29, 2012
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Not really. You ever see a person on PCP cut their own face off because of the insects beeneath it. I believe the desire was to feel good, the traumatic result was death.
Your definition isn't robust enough and doesn't include accidental or other intoxication that is not self induced. You are only thinking about drug use that is self administered to achieve a desired effect. That isn't the whole of the possiblities. So the possibility that trauma could be acting on the same areas of the brain as drugs and producing very similar perceptions still exists.
I don't agree. Someone takes a PCP to achieve a desired emotional or mental state. But because drugs can be toxic, it produces an undesirable side-effect just like any prescription drugs. Trauma doesn't trigger the same chemical response in the brain that drugs or alcohol do. Trauma actually is opposite of the effects of what drugs do to your brain. Trauma produces a negative effect such as pain or fear but because it triggers chemicals in the brain, the fight-or-flight response, it produces a good desired effect such as peace or positive sensation after reacting or responding to a crisis, it's why in NDE people actually survive death.

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