Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#66146 Dec 19, 2012
DanFromSmithville wrote:
Where is anonymous from Akron tonight? I was hoping she would conjure up a wife or better some girlfriends for me. After all, I will need a counterpart to help raise those boys and someone to go all "Alpha Male" on. ROFL!
Umm...just got home from work. I'm on the middle shift. You're also a bit gender challenged on profiling me. Never married. I'm too anti-alpha for gals who like to breed, not enough goon for those who like bullies, and certainly not interested in inheriting some other alpha wannabee's kids from the divorce!

Not my business why you got the kids.

Not that I care, but you don't actually tell the gals to stay in the kitchen and make you a "sammich", do you?
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#66147 Dec 19, 2012
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
The willfully ignorant aren't interested in embracing basic logic. Shaming them doesn't work either because they have no shame. Hence my posts aren't for the fundies or the willfully ignorant, they are for those capable of critical thinking as a demonstration of the absurdity of fundie-lack of thinking.
I guess I consider the majority of the world to be in one of four groups. First there's the 1 to 4 patterns group, also the "me" culture. Second, the 5 to 16 pattern group which is the "you" group.(They represent most fundamentalists.) Third, there's the 17 to 64 pattern group: the "I" group, and then the 65 to 256 pattern group, the "it" or "we" group.

Those are the mathematical and the linguistic definitions that I have come up with. Complexity is defined by genetically inherited patterns that aren't absolute, but are reinforced over time. The best way to detect the plateau level is to observe speech patterns where individuals tend to communicate based on a comfort zone of personal identity.

I place the center of the bell curve at the high end of group two. The forth group isn't so fixed so I give it two pronouns, but I tend to consider "we" people to be more socialistic and "it" people to be more libertarian.

Some people defy these groupings, mostly people whose personalities are adapted to pre-urban lifestyles, such as Native Americans or Australian Aborigines, maybe the Ainu, and so on.

The important thing is numbers. Cultural consensus must include the first two groups who make up the majority. Imposing authority that insults, intimidates or confuses them is unstable at best. Granted, there are complexities in leadership that some people just won't grasp. All you can do is create a political system that gives them a voice, and make sure that you communicate your needs and your reasons for political decisions to everyone in order to build that consensus.

Strategically, that gives your nation a popular advantage among other nations, and while it might hurt the political careers of individual politicians, in times of war, that gives you the best political capital. People should not be in politics for profit anyway!

Well, that's all there is to that speech. I always assume that political weasels and the "willfully ignorant" troll these sites for public opinion. I don't like the idea that they are tapping into my comments for rehearsed political gratification so I try not to give any of them the satisfaction of copying some well-done brow beating no matter how much someone deserves it!:o)

“What can I do to get the Topix”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

cops upset?

#66148 Dec 19, 2012
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>Umm...just got home from work. I'm on the middle shift. You're also a bit gender challenged on profiling me. Never married. I'm too anti-alpha for gals who like to breed, not enough goon for those who like bullies, and certainly not interested in inheriting some other alpha wannabee's kids from the divorce!
Not my business why you got the kids.
Not that I care, but you don't actually tell the gals to stay in the kitchen and make you a "sammich", do you?
Well, obviously my posts have hit a nerve.

I don't have any children. I never said that I did. You know this of course, you are just incapable of saying, "Oh, I made a mistake." You even compounded that mistake by embellishing on it in one of your tirades.

Not married. A catch like you. I can't imagine why. Perhaps if you talked to the woman instead assuming a whole history for her, you might have more luck.

Sorry if you grew up in a home like that. My mother did not have to put up with that, because my father would never have dreamed of saying something like that. Funny, I never would have thought that you came from a home with those antiquated, neanderthal qualities, but I guess you just never know.

Check this out if you want to go off on somebody. http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T5V...
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#66149 Dec 19, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually it has been hypothesized that there may be mutations that are fixed preferentially during adaptive evolution. It may not be random as previously thought. And perhaps there is a pattern in our DNA that causes these mutations. For instance what causes the presence of chromosome 21 in humans with Down Syndrome. Perhaps we can figure out in advance if someone's likely to pass on certain genes by studying these patterns?
Well, that does tend to suggest that genetics aren't perfect. There are design weaknesses. Perhaps things like the Cambrian explosion are actually caused by some fundamental change in genetics that overcome obstacles at the structural level. For those of us who have become comfortable in our niches, that could prove very bad.... but stuff happens! Enjoy the time you have!

I still wouldn't call that an act of God! Just a good idea whose time has come.

“What can I do to get the Topix”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

cops upset?

#66150 Dec 19, 2012
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>Umm...just got home from work. I'm on the middle shift. You're also a bit gender challenged on profiling me. Never married. I'm too anti-alpha for gals who like to breed, not enough goon for those who like bullies, and certainly not interested in inheriting some other alpha wannabee's kids from the divorce!
Not my business why you got the kids.
Not that I care, but you don't actually tell the gals to stay in the kitchen and make you a "sammich", do you?
You like to make connection where none exist don't you. How does my alledged mistake in your gender reveal anything about your marital status? I do not recall you making that status known until this post.

Can you tell what race I am? How tall am I? How old am I. Who did I vote for. Actually, profile me. I am requesting it from you who know so much about me already, including fictional children I never said I had.

Go for it if you have the courage. Give it your best shot. If you are right, I might even say so.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#66151 Dec 19, 2012
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Well, obviously my posts have hit a nerve.
I don't have any children. I never said that I did. You know this of course, you are just incapable of saying, "Oh, I made a mistake." You even compounded that mistake by embellishing on it in one of your tirades.
Not married. A catch like you. I can't imagine why. Perhaps if you talked to the woman instead assuming a whole history for her, you might have more luck.
Sorry if you grew up in a home like that. My mother did not have to put up with that, because my father would never have dreamed of saying something like that. Funny, I never would have thought that you came from a home with those antiquated, neanderthal qualities, but I guess you just never know.
Check this out if you want to go off on somebody. http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T5V...
Then I guess I misread this line:
"Sorry, I am off your Christmas card list. The boys here will take it pretty hard."
Well, I try not to be overly imaginative on those kinds of comments. I'll leave it at that.

Actually, Dad was annoying chivalrous. He grew up in the Depression era and I don't think he ever accepted the nastiness that most people had in them.

“What can I do to get the Topix”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

cops upset?

#66152 Dec 19, 2012
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess I consider the majority of the world to be in one of four groups. First there's the 1 to 4 patterns group, also the "me" culture. Second, the 5 to 16 pattern group which is the "you" group.(They represent most fundamentalists.) Third, there's the 17 to 64 pattern group: the "I" group, and then the 65 to 256 pattern group, the "it" or "we" group.
Those are the mathematical and the linguistic definitions that I have come up with. Complexity is defined by genetically inherited patterns that aren't absolute, but are reinforced over time. The best way to detect the plateau level is to observe speech patterns where individuals tend to communicate based on a comfort zone of personal identity.
I place the center of the bell curve at the high end of group two. The forth group isn't so fixed so I give it two pronouns, but I tend to consider "we" people to be more socialistic and "it" people to be more libertarian.
Some people defy these groupings, mostly people whose personalities are adapted to pre-urban lifestyles, such as Native Americans or Australian Aborigines, maybe the Ainu, and so on.
The important thing is numbers. Cultural consensus must include the first two groups who make up the majority. Imposing authority that insults, intimidates or confuses them is unstable at best. Granted, there are complexities in leadership that some people just won't grasp. All you can do is create a political system that gives them a voice, and make sure that you communicate your needs and your reasons for political decisions to everyone in order to build that consensus.
Strategically, that gives your nation a popular advantage among other nations, and while it might hurt the political careers of individual politicians, in times of war, that gives you the best political capital. People should not be in politics for profit anyway!
Well, that's all there is to that speech. I always assume that political weasels and the "willfully ignorant" troll these sites for public opinion. I don't like the idea that they are tapping into my comments for rehearsed political gratification so I try not to give any of them the satisfaction of copying some well-done brow beating no matter how much someone deserves it!:o)
Reading this, I can see you hold yourself in high esteem. I especially like that part about imaginary people coming on here and using your stuff to further their own agendas. No that doesn't sound the least paranoid.

I know from you previous post that you don't like to be tapped for gratification.

“What can I do to get the Topix”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

cops upset?

#66153 Dec 19, 2012
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
Then I guess I misread this line:
"Sorry, I am off your Christmas card list. The boys here will take it pretty hard."
Well, I try not to be overly imaginative on those kinds of comments. I'll leave it at that.
Actually, Dad was annoying chivalrous. He grew up in the Depression era and I don't think he ever accepted the nastiness that most people had in them.
Darn you for going and being nice just when I had launched a salvo of very entertaining and perjorative commentary.

If you are going to own up to your word and be nice, I will have to do the same. It is a shame, I actually had some more good stuff to come. Well, I should really save that for the likes of that preacher from the other thread that I supplied the link to.

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#66154 Dec 19, 2012
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>It was a hypothetical plant, but the tree of the knowledge of good and evil comes to mind. I don't know what recreational drugs you have used, but I don't know of any that are good at getting rid of fleas. Some of them make you think insects are crawling all over you, but that doesn't really count. So, I going to go with medicinal.
Things are things. Thanks for catching me up with the group on that one. I subscribe to the concept that things (objects) are neither inherently evil or inherently good and can be either or anywhere in between depending on how they are used. Rose Tyler you are missing my point entirely. Is it good that people be so prohibited from thinking, inovating, conceptualizing and discovering by the their own religion that we lose new knowledge, new discoveries. My stories were just hypothetical.
The hypotheticals were based on actual prohibitions that are described in the Bible, like dietary prohibitions. MMMMMmmmmm! Yummy, yummy bacon. In reasonable quatities of course.
I don't know if this will help clear things up or not, but here goes. The United States is a liberal democracy. It was founded on radical principles that were developed throughout history but really took form during the Enlightenment. Concepts like equality and no man needing fear another, justice. You know good stuff like that. We are not the only liberal democracy, but we are the first and did it in a big way. We are the first aren't we. I am not missing anyone I hope. Anyway, one of these radical ideas that the founders included in the documents and laws forming this country was the idea of patents, copyrights, and trademarks. These wise men were aware that historically inventors often kept their inventions secret lest the competition or bad guys find out about it. Good for them, but not so good for the whole community. This was common with early metalurgists and alchemists. So, they designed this system to make a contract in essence with inventors so that if they disclosed their invention to everyone, they would get exclusive rights to control that invention in the form of a patent. For other intellectual products like art, books and music they created the copyright. This ensured that both the country and the inventor would receive benefit of the products of their efforts and encourage people to pursue new discoveries in any field. Damn these guys were smart. We had one hell of a group of forefathers. By the way, they had other radical ideas as well. We can get to those at another time.
Now I probably have not done justice to the story and may have a few details wrong, but in general the system rewards individual effort and creativity while benefiting society at the same time. I don't see that with the way you or anyone else on describes their religious beliefs. Rose Tyler, I get this view that Christians, since that is largely who we are talking with, see this world of freedom in their religion, but miss all the constraints on discovery, human growth and new knowledge. History will support my opinion on this. Unless of course you look at how religion was used by the great colonial empires. Send in the missionaries to pacify and restrain the locals so we can exploit them and their homeland. Missionaries of first strike. But otherwise, Christianity has often attacked the different even when it was different Christians.
There's a difference between learning what you haven't known before and saying you know something that no one has ever known before...including God.
There is no new knowledge. God knows everything and has since before time. You should capitalize on what you know. I believe you do. I wish to know God more than the patent inventor. good luck with that.

“What can I do to get the Topix”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

cops upset?

#66155 Dec 19, 2012
I fish wrote:
<quoted text>
There's a difference between learning what you haven't known before and saying you know something that no one has ever known before...including God.
There is no new knowledge. God knows everything and has since before time. You should capitalize on what you know. I believe you do. I wish to know God more than the patent inventor. good luck with that.
It isn't what God knows that is the problem. The problem is that Christians think they know what God knows and they want everyone to fall in line. Other religions do the same. If you don't believe that is true, then study history. There are plenty of examples of good Christians carving up people that didn't toe the line.

Do not read into this. I have had too much of that this week. I am not saying God does not exist or that God is not relevant, but the existence of God is not relevant to the practices of his followers that claim to have all the knowledge they will ever need and are going to provide others with that knowledge as well. Whether others want it or not. At any cost.

Religion gives people a free pass to do as they will. But they don't always do the right thing. Sometimes they do as they want and to hell with everyone else.

I am not implying that you practice your faith that way, but others most certainly do.

I have to go Rose Tyler. As always, a pleasure chatting with you.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#66156 Dec 19, 2012
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Reading this, I can see you hold yourself in high esteem. I especially like that part about imaginary people coming on here and using your stuff to further their own agendas. No that doesn't sound the least paranoid.
I know from you previous post that you don't like to be tapped for gratification.
Are you going to go on trying to find a cool way to slam me? You're just not making the intuitive leap needed here.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#66157 Dec 19, 2012
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text> I am not saying God does not exist or that God is not relevant, but the existence of God is not relevant to the practices of his followers that claim to have all the knowledge they will ever need and are going to provide others with that knowledge as well. Whether others want it or not. At any cost.
Religion gives people a free pass to do as they will. But they don't always do the right thing. Sometimes they do as they want and to hell with everyone else.
I am not implying that you practice your faith that way, but others most certainly do.
Wow.

Nicely stated.

Thank you.

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#66158 Dec 19, 2012
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>It isn't what God knows that is the problem. The problem is that Christians think they know what God knows and they want everyone to fall in line. Other religions do the same. If you don't believe that is true, then study history. There are plenty of examples of good Christians carving up people that didn't toe the line.
Do not read into this. I have had too much of that this week. I am not saying God does not exist or that God is not relevant, but the existence of God is not relevant to the practices of his followers that claim to have all the knowledge they will ever need and are going to provide others with that knowledge as well. Whether others want it or not. At any cost.
Religion gives people a free pass to do as they will. But they don't always do the right thing. Sometimes they do as they want and to hell with everyone else.
I am not implying that you practice your faith that way, but others most certainly do.
I have to go Rose Tyler. As always, a pleasure chatting with you.
I find great humility in a group of grown men who say I'm afraid of being wrong so I'll just repeat what the Bible says as accurately as possible. Watch what repeating the Bible does for people. You think Christians inhibit learning. How many languages has the bible been translated into. what has motivated many individuals who earlier could care less about literacy to learn to read. It is the Word of God. It's not the missionary....It's the message.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#66159 Dec 19, 2012
I fish wrote:
<quoted text>
I find great humility in a group of grown men who say I'm afraid of being wrong so I'll just repeat what the Bible says as accurately as possible. Watch what repeating the Bible does for people. You think Christians inhibit learning. How many languages has the bible been translated into. what has motivated many individuals who earlier could care less about literacy to learn to read. It is the Word of God. It's not the missionary....It's the message.
How many conflicting English versions of the Bible are there?
Answer: at least 50.

How many different denominations of Christianity are there that have differing interpretations of the same "Word of God"?
Answer: about 41,000

You guys cant even come to a concensus regarding your own book! How do you know YOUR interpretation is the right one?

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#66160 Dec 19, 2012
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
How many conflicting English versions of the Bible are there?
Answer: at least 50.
How many different denominations of Christianity are there that have differing interpretations of the same "Word of God"?
Answer: about 41,000
You guys cant even come to a concensus regarding your own book! How do you know YOUR interpretation is the right one?
It'd be nicer if you were on our side. You could maybe say the best way to evangelize is to rejoice in THE TRUTH...and then go from group to group and rejoice in THE TRUTH with them.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#66161 Dec 19, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
How so?
Do you not get a warm fuzzy feeling when you sense your supernatural deity is thinking exactly what you think?
Perhaps you are not really a christian after all and you and your god just think you are
"c" can be anything?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAaaaaaah...ye ah, right.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#66162 Dec 19, 2012
I fish wrote:
<quoted text>It'd be nicer if you were on our side. You could maybe say the best way to evangelize is to rejoice in THE TRUTH...and then go from group to group and rejoice in THE TRUTH with them.
Why does there have to be a side?

“What can I do to get the Topix”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

cops upset?

#66163 Dec 19, 2012
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>Are you going to go on trying to find a cool way to slam me? You're just not making the intuitive leap needed here.
No I don't suppose I will. Since you admitted to jumping to conclusions, my point seems to be made. No sense gilding the lilly. Besides you sometimes say something that makes sense despite the tangents down blind alleys. In fact, I may have agreed with you in the past on some point or other.

I did enjoy the irony of your trying to establish yourself as the alpha while casting disdain on alphas in the same instance. I love irony. Isn't that ironic?

If you really knew me, you would be shocked at how off the mark your attempts to characterize me or mischaracterize me were. But since you seem to have some idea about the intuitive leap I need to make, enlighten me. I am never closed to hearing new ideas.

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#66164 Dec 19, 2012
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Why does there have to be a side?
I wouldn't want to pretend like it's not there. That would mean I could do no evil....and I can technically...the Bible speaks of the love of God constraining us...right?

“What can I do to get the Topix”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

cops upset?

#66165 Dec 19, 2012
I fish wrote:
<quoted text>
I find great humility in a group of grown men who say I'm afraid of being wrong so I'll just repeat what the Bible says as accurately as possible. Watch what repeating the Bible does for people. You think Christians inhibit learning. How many languages has the bible been translated into. what has motivated many individuals who earlier could care less about literacy to learn to read. It is the Word of God. It's not the missionary....It's the message.
Rose Tyler, might I refer you to the Taliban. That is the example that many in the United States and elsewhere wish to follow, save they substitute the religion of their choice. The Taliban is what happens when you eliminate critical thinking and true education and substitute if with indoctrination into a religion. God doesn't want that even if it is made all pretty and wholesome.

Sure Christianity doesn't inhibit the learning of the Bible. Translation of the Bible to other languages is hardly a monument to a well rounded education.

Yes, you are right, it is the message and not the messenger. For hundreds of years the message was that the great ruler across the water was annoited by God and God says he needs your women, your gold and your strong backs. So bend over and make peace with it because it is happening.

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