Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.
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“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

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#65128
Dec 13, 2012
 
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>You are trying to martyr Christian beliefs. A methodolgy of the suppression of openness, innovation, science and intellectual freedom that Christianity is perfecting to the point of nausea. Christianity is among the most populace religions in the World and is in one denomination or another, the primary religion of most Americans. How then are all these anti-Christian attacks being carried out and by whom. Other Christians?
Christianity is on the attack these days and propaganda about how Christianity is being attacked is the primary weapon of first strike. I tried reading your post and maybe I will try and continue despite what I posted previously, but my description seems to fit so far. It is not science that is forcing states to go to court. It is not science that is martyring itself to support its views. It is not science that is trying to rewrite history and change the origin of the US Constitution and the views of the people that founded the United States. It is not science that throws up misrepresented facts, misinformation and lies to defend its position. Stop and ask yourself if what you believe is so strong why does it have to be defended with such false warriors weilding fictional blades.
When a woman attempts to teach a man...it is always a crime. She's the laughing stalk of the world. A work of fiction is not a crime to anyone or anything. C.S.Lewis used fiction, J R R Tolkien used fiction to convey spiritual truths. Why is The Wizard of Oz so popular? Who are the cowardly Lions? Those are probably poor examples since they aren't by women...but we can't take forever...we only have so much time. I think you are wrong about true christianity...because america is considered the 'christian nation'..that does present a problem...I don't really see so-called christians as encouraging eternal life and mercy either, but not enough can be said or done to convey that Jesus is still as pure in His leading the Church (his Church...not the Catholic...or baptist...or evangelical free...etc...Just THE CHURCH, the bride) today as he was when he walked on the earth. He doesn't lead people to do evil. He left a new commandment you know that we love eachother as he loved us. It didn't take long for Peter and Paul to go separate ways. One to the jews and one to the gentiles. But they were both ambassadors for Christ. Christ is the Prince of Peace. No person is going to bring peace. People will believe that the antichrist is alll about peace. They will follow him and be convinced that good is evil and evil is good. Everyone grows up in church it seems without knowing much other than there's rules to live by, without questioning why or without skilled and patient teachers for their why.

“what we think we become”

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#65129
Dec 13, 2012
 
yawn

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#65130
Dec 14, 2012
 
theIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
Ladies and Gentlemen, behold, the evidentiary PROOF is in the putz- as presented above.
I sleep very well thank you. Glad you enjoyed MY references of direction.
###
That’s what I love to see, a moron who has no counter arguments but is too pig headed to admit the fact.

Yes proof, not the cherry picked, quote mined garbage you have been offering but actual proof with copies of his writings on the subject of his feelings towards gods and your god in general, religion, faith etc.

However if you can provide similar proof then please feel free because really your word and you lies and offensive and slanderous comments don’t mean squat.

“I started out with nothing”

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#65131
Dec 14, 2012
 
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
Evidentiary presentation number two, above.
(albeit flawed-due to lacking of authenticatable, reliable source citation)
Why are you fumbling in the dark, the required sources were posted in the previous post. I know you don’t like truth and fact but that’s your problem, live with it
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
Or were you just making verbal threats and/or false accusations?
Honey it was you seen and proven to be lying in the face of your god, it was you distorting a dead mans belief, I was simply pointing out haw pathetic that is.

If you consider facts to be false accusations then the problem is you personality and eductaion. All you have to do is cite sources for your claim and they will be examined, as yet you have been unable to do so however my sources however are beyond doubt
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
Along with parroting anothers posting format...
That's all REALLY, REALLY rather Freakish-as in stalker like freakish.
Honey, if you don’t like me taking the p|ss out of your lying posts then don’t post lies on a public thread.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

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#65132
Dec 14, 2012
 
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't trust the swabbies either-give 'em a raised eyebrow follicle at times I have lol.
You're experiencing an excess of mirth tonight! Well, at least you caught my typo without jumping on it.

No, I don't think that science has genuinely mapped too much of the genome, and what they have matched would be very telling of their agendas. It wouldn't surprise me if there were several factions out there, determined to identify the Jews, Gypsies, Native Americans and other "impurities" that have infiltrated the exquisite White Mother's world, hiding behind white skin.(or some other self-important, bigoted, megolamaniacal, label!)

We're so obsessed with imprisoning gas-and-go thieves, we'll never know what hit us. As we speak, nouveau-riche Yale preppies who think of themselves as some Jeffersonian "natural-born ruling class" are inventing the barriers to success that conservative businessmen will be embracing tomorrow. One hand washes the other, as usual. Real liberalism is dead in this country. The real trouble has yet to begin.

Anyway, a little capriciousness goes a long way. Don't get caught on the wrong side of the walls when they're built. As I see it, the Evolution crowd needs a Devil's advocate, but I don't consider myself an expendable devil, if you know what I mean!!
The Dude

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#65133
Dec 14, 2012
 
Cameraman wrote:
<quoted text>
**********
I guess the reason there are a whole bunch of Egyption chariots in the Red Sea is that they had a sale on them and no one bought any, so they just dumped them in the water.
That would certainly more reasonable that claiming all science is wrong and reality isn't real therefore an invisible magic Jew didit.
The Dude

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#65134
Dec 14, 2012
 
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
How do you explain that supposedly purely functional components which only LOOK like ERV's can be resurrected FROM these markers artificially with the result acting EXACTLY like a retrovirus does?
That's the part that I found to perhaps be a little "contrary"
too!!(I think, if the processing is accurate enough anyway)
You're getting it. When a retrovirus infects a host it inserts itself into our DNA and replaces that particular base with its own DNA. Retroviruses have a recognisable protein makeup which is why we can identify them. They also have protein caps at each end which are used specifically by the virus to insert itself into a host. That's why we think of them as ERV's, which stands for Endogenous Retro-Virus. Endogenous means "born within", meaning that organisms inherit these ERV markers from their parents. In order for this to happen one of its ancestors must be infected with a retrovirus. It also must not die from the virus before it reproduces. It also must be infected in a germ line cell (sperm or egg) in order for the retrovirus genetic material to be passed onto the offspring.

As you can imagine this is quite rare. Despite this approximately 8% of our genome is made up of ERV's or ERV remnants. Now we do share a few of these ERV markers, but not all, with the other great apes at the **SAME** positions along our genomes. This means either we share common ancestry, or each of the different great ape species just so happened to catch the **SAME** retrovirus at the **SAME** position by seperate independent infections. The chances of us sharing just ONE ERV with ONE other species is approximately 1 in 1.5 BILLION. But we share many. That's why they are considered such strong evidence for evolution.

Maz claims that ERV markers were "designed", since some ERV's actually have function. This is not a problem for evolution as the whole *point* of evolution is acquiring new genetic material which eventually leads to new function. The problem is he has proposed no mechanism for it, so we're only left with "magic". He also hasn't provided scientific evidence of his "designer, so we're only left with "magic". He also has no explanation as to why ERV markers look like ERV markers, so why should he even call them ERV's at all? He also has no explanation for orthology (if an ERV is "orthologous" it means it shares the **SAME** location as the same marker in another species). He also has no explanation why orthologous ERV's show evidence of natural genetic drift consistent with nested hierarchies. He also has no explanation for if they are NOT retroviruses, why we can replicate the protein makeup of ERV's with the result acting JUST like a retrovirus does.

He also attempts to portray evolution as "atheistic", despite the fact that many Christians accept evolution. Science doesn't care about theism or atheism either way. Maybe there is a God. But either it used evolution, or it just made it LOOK like it used evolution.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

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#65135
Dec 14, 2012
 
I fish wrote:
<quoted text>
When a woman attempts to teach a man...it is always a crime. She's the laughing stalk of the world. A work of fiction is not a crime to anyone or anything. C.S.Lewis used fiction, J R R Tolkien used fiction .....
I tend to think a better analogy might be Tolkien vs. Rowling. J. K. Rowling has LOTS of recognition, but appeals to a different class of society and has very different expectations of the similar target audience.

Now, the basic characters of the two stories are very similar, but the roles played have very different consequences. Whereas Rowling is obsessed with class and education, Tolkien has more of a Karma approach to who fulfills what roles in his story. Granted, there is a royalty aspect in Tolkien that Rowling does not include, but that is just another part of the absolutely stereotypical male and female roles of leadership that separate matriarchies and patriarchies.

Neither is wrong, nor is either absolutely right, but for my part, I don't like Rowling much as she typically considers all males disposable in favor of the "chosen" one. That suggests a level of insecurity, and a divide and conquer strategy, that weakens matriarchal cultures.

Tolkien admits to a secondary role of women in leadership but I think he did his bet to give them roles, to include the killing of the second greatest power of evil in battle. Generally, I think he just accepts the natural roles that go along with sexual dimorphism.

Just my opinion.
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

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#65136
Dec 14, 2012
 
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I hadn't thought of it that way. What a very good and interesting point you make.
I cannot imagine considering the existances of those that lived before us, as being "meaningless". Not even when they no longer physcially walk among us.

Life is precious, every day, another blessing, and yet many people WASTE (or abuse) precious time, THEN rendering (that sort of) of time, as "meaningless".

Just MY opinion though-certainly not a "fact".
TheIndependentMa jority

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#65137
Dec 14, 2012
 
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Alexander looked at the length and bredth of his kingdom and wept for there were no more worlds to conquer. Alexander had a very limited view of the world. There is so much uncharted water and quantum physics is only one sea among many.
Alexander needed a better way, other than belligerrently conquering others :-).
TheIndependentMa jority

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#65139
Dec 14, 2012
 

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Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>When you twist and turn science to take into account the equivalent of the Tooth Fairy you are going to get some very twisted science as a result.
I can't logic anyone calling a book full of recorded history of ancient civilizations, a "fairy tale" either. Add warped to twisted, and I will gladly second that notion.
Just for ONE small example in the many pages of time recorded--and for instance--

Battles of Megiddo

Many battles have taken place near the town of Megiddo, Palestine, but only those during the last three and a half millennia are known.

Megiddo is a tel, a hill made of 26 layers of the ruins of ancient cities in a strategic location at the head of a pass through the Carmel Ridge, which overlooks the Jezreel Valley from the south. Megiddo was a site of great importance in ancient world, as it guarded the western branch of Via Maris, an ancient trade route from Egypt to Mesopotamia.

The site was inhabited from 7000 BC to 500 BC. Modern Megiddo is nearby. The neighboring Mount Megiddo (Har-megiddo in Hebrew), gave its name to the Armageddon of the Christian Bible.

A list of known battles follows.
Battle of 1469 BC
This is the first battle in all of history about which reliable detailed information survives. Pharaoh Tutmoses III conquered Canaan in an early expansion of the Egyptian Empire.
Battle of 609 BC
The forces of Egypt fought those of the Kingdom of Judah. Egypt under Necho II was allied with the Assyrians against the Babylonians. Rushing to help the Assyrians, the Egyptians were blocked on Via Maris by the army of Judah, led by its king Josiah. The Egyptians prevailed over Judah, and Josiah was killed. However, Egypt was not able to prevent a Babylonian victory over the Assyrians four years later.

Battle of 1918
The battle of September 19-21, 1918, was an important milestone in British General Edmund Allenby's conquest of Palestine during World War I. His forces made a massive push into the Ezdraelon Valley from the west, through the Carmel Ridge then engulfed the Turkish forces in the valley and on the River Jordan. When he was created a viscount, Allenby took the name of this battle as his own, becoming the First Viscount Allenby of Megiddo.
---------

he Battle of Megiddo is the first battle that was recorded in detail and for posterity. Pharaoh Thutmose III's military scribe inscribed it in hieroglyphs at Thutmose's temple at Karnak, Thebes (now Luxor). Not only is this the first extant, detailed battle description, but it is the first written reference to the religiously important Megiddo: Megiddo is also known as Armageddon.

Historically, Megiddo was an important city because it overlooked the route from Egypt through Syria to Mesopotamia. If an enemy of Egypt controlled Megiddo, it could block the pharaoh from reaching the rest of his empire.
In approximately 1479 B.C., Thutmose III, pharaoh of Egypt, led an expedition against the prince of Kadesh who was in Megiddo.
Battle of Megiddo - Background:

After holding at Romani in August 1916, British troops began advancing across the Sinai Peninsula. Winning minor victories at Magdhaba and Rafa, their campaign was finally halted in front of Gaza by Ottoman forces in March 1917. After a second attempt against the city failed, command of the Egyptian Expeditionary Force passed to General Sir Edmund Allenby. Renewing the Allied offensive in late October, Allenby shattered the enemy defenses at the Third Battle of Gaza. Rapidly advancing, he entered Jerusalem in December. Though Allenby intended to crush the Ottomans in the spring of 1918, he was quickly forced on the defensive when the bulk of his troops were reassigned to aid in defeating the German Spring Offensives on the Western Front. Holding along a line running from the Mediterranean east to the Jordan River, Allenby was slowly reinforced during the summer...
(some links from somewhere on some web--why even bother to rewrite what was already)
TheIndependentMa jority

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#65141
Dec 14, 2012
 

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ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
That’s what I love to see, a moron who has no counter arguments but is too pig headed to admit the fact.
Yes proof, not the cherry picked, quote mined garbage you have been offering but actual proof with copies of his writings on the subject of his feelings towards gods and your god in general, religion, faith etc.
However if you can provide similar proof then please feel free because really your word and you lies and offensive and slanderous comments don’t mean squat.
I already did--sorry you missed it.
TheIndependentMa jority

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#65142
Dec 14, 2012
 

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ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are you fumbling in the dark, the required sources were posted in the previous post. I know you don’t like truth and fact but that’s your problem, live with it
<quoted text>
Honey it was you seen and proven to be lying in the face of your god, it was you distorting a dead mans belief, I was simply pointing out haw pathetic that is.
If you consider facts to be false accusations then the problem is you personality and eductaion. All you have to do is cite sources for your claim and they will be examined, as yet you have been unable to do so however my sources however are beyond doubt
Honey, if you don’t like me taking the p|ss out of your lying posts then don’t post lies on a public thread.
I'm not an "honey" of yours, so please save your nothing but ego tripping rudeness of ignorance- for anyone that is.

I enjoyed my OWN researched links, found them to be MORE than enough, and very credible.

Not my problem--whatever you're problem is...and YOU do seem to have one, calling dead people and their interviewers "liars".

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#65143
Dec 14, 2012
 
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
I already did--sorry you missed it.
Did what – chicken out?

Because you have never – let me repeat

N - E - V - E - R

provided any objective evidence for what you claim.

You have made statements, you have copied and pasted from apologetics sites (without citation) but you have never actually cited evidence.

I would however welcome if you did, it would at least make you look less of a blithering idiot, but don’t ask me to hold my breath while you do it

“I started out with nothing”

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#65144
Dec 14, 2012
 
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not an "honey" of yours, so please save your nothing but ego tripping rudeness of ignorance- for anyone that is.
I enjoyed my OWN researched links, found them to be MORE than enough, and very credible.
Not my problem--whatever you're problem is...and YOU do seem to have one, calling dead people and their interviewers "liars".
Right honey,

You may have your own “research links” but until you show us what those links are then they are worthless in any argument

I have offered proof, I have linked you to pages that show the passages Einstein wrote, both in his native language and translated into English. What have you provided, nothing that’s N – O – T – H – I – N – G but lies and bullcrap.

I have left the way open for you to supply your evidence, I have asked that you supply your evidence, it is no ones fault but your own that you have been unable to do that
TheIndependentMa jority

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#65145
Dec 14, 2012
 

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anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
You're experiencing an excess of mirth tonight! Well, at least you caught my typo without jumping on it.
No, I don't think that science has genuinely mapped too much of the genome, and what they have matched would be very telling of their agendas. It wouldn't surprise me if there were several factions out there, determined to identify the Jews, Gypsies, Native Americans and other "impurities" that have infiltrated the exquisite White Mother's world, hiding behind white skin.(or some other self-important, bigoted, megolamaniacal, label!)
We're so obsessed with imprisoning gas-and-go thieves, we'll never know what hit us. As we speak, nouveau-riche Yale preppies who think of themselves as some Jeffersonian "natural-born ruling class" are inventing the barriers to success that conservative businessmen will be embracing tomorrow. One hand washes the other, as usual. Real liberalism is dead in this country. The real trouble has yet to begin.
Anyway, a little capriciousness goes a long way. Don't get caught on the wrong side of the walls when they're built. As I see it, the Evolution crowd needs a Devil's advocate, but I don't consider myself an expendable devil, if you know what I mean!!
Ah...not in my genetics to "jump on typos" out of hateful ignorance, just for some weak validation of denial of ones own ineptness :-). If and when I do so, I do so in good natured preference, and for the mere "funning" of it :-). Unless of course it would be a situation where such would matter an iota, but that is another whole realm.

Diametrically, I wouldn't consider Yalies as noveua anything-most especially "rich". FAR, far from it lol. Liberals are generally to "liberal" to be such lol. I would have to entitle THAt type of brainlessnes to the "Harvard" up-turned squeak and squeal pig snouters types lol. You know, the ones that fathom themselves to be some sort of dieties on earth, with nary a flaw, or never an incorrect bone-oh my-oh heavens no!:-)
I prefer paths of REALITY, and finding ways of crossing o'er the many stumbling stones that litter it.
I find it's much just easier, and much kinder on the whole existential being then...because running into boulders all the times is NOT anyway to exist harmoniously, thank you :-).

Loved your description of the blending of the Hienz 57 world in which we live though lol.
TheIndependentMa jority

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#65146
Dec 14, 2012
 

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ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Right honey,
You may have your own “research links” but until you show us what those links are then they are worthless in any argument
I have offered proof, I have linked you to pages that show the passages Einstein wrote, both in his native language and translated into English. What have you provided, nothing that’s N – O – T – H – I – N – G but lies and bullcrap.
I have left the way open for you to supply your evidence, I have asked that you supply your evidence, it is no ones fault but your own that you have been unable to do that
Like I said, sorry you missed it.

I don't WASTE time, redoing what has already been done,so, you're on your own.

Have a nice argument with yourself, as I find such behavior extremely ignorant, and that at the levels of pre-pubescent grade schoolers.

Cheers!
TheIndependentMa jority

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#65147
Dec 14, 2012
 

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ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Did what – chicken out?
Because you have never – let me repeat
N - E - V - E - R
provided any objective evidence for what you claim.
You have made statements, you have copied and pasted from apologetics sites (without citation) but you have never actually cited evidence.
I would however welcome if you did, it would at least make you look less of a blithering idiot, but don’t ask me to hold my breath while you do it
Have fun scrolling back through the pages and pages (and pages!!) of too, should you ever decide to grow up for a few minutes, and act like a rational, sane adult.

“I started out with nothing”

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#65148
Dec 14, 2012
 
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I said, sorry you missed it.
I don't WASTE time, redoing what has already been done,so, you're on your own.
Have a nice argument with yourself, as I find such behavior extremely ignorant, and that at the levels of pre-pubescent grade schoolers.
Cheers!
No you are not sorry, you are lying

What does it boil down to, quite simple, you are a liar and you prove it.

You may not be bothered but I have bothered and looked at at EVERY post you have addressed to me and guess what I did not find? I did not find what you claim to have done, in other words you are a liar and you prove yourself a liar with your lying posts

And you simply do not have the bottle to admit you are a liar in the face of the proof of your lies.

However you are welcome to do the good christian thing and lie about it, and ignore the consciences of your lies it’s what we have come to expect

The only thing worse than a liar is a christian liar who is to sh|t scared to admit he is a liar

“I started out with nothing”

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#65149
Dec 14, 2012
 
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
Have fun scrolling back through the pages and pages (and pages!!) of too, should you ever decide to grow up for a few minutes, and act like a rational, sane adult.
Done that, you loose

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