Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

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“I be me, and you are...”

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#64992
Dec 12, 2012
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh bohart, you know everything you just wrote applies to only you.
My beliefs are not faith based and I can show it. Yours are based upon a fairy tale. A story you should have been questioning starting at the age of 12 or earlier.
Too bad you and Russell never made the cut for college. You could have learned quite a bit there.
You and Russell are two peas in a pod. Both sorely undereducated. Both of you think that you have faith in your fairy tales, but deep down both of you know that they are false.
I notice that neither of you cowards will openly state your beliefs. You will only say what you don't believe in.
That is the cowards way out. Your fear shows that you know your personal beliefs could be debunked and you are both afraid of that.
I have the answer to your fear. Knowledge brings freedom from fear. Fear is almost always based upon ignorance.
Wever ignorance knows mostly no fear for a know how can bring some of it not that fear is a real for itself is the most scariest in what can hold someone from moving on...

Give me a Fairy over above God any day and a little girl would say that and to tell a tale well, I can tell you what I would not let my little one listen to just some Preacher...and what all gets bred in Hell...my oh my...

So College where does it have brought you to TOPIX LOL same place it brought me too...

Oh just jumped into the conversation I know a Russell so I thought it was alright...

“I be me, and you are...”

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#64993
Dec 12, 2012
 
It's just all so Evolutionary and mysterious...... Misty is a character( misteriously may become the way to be) Elf like never to late and never too early... :)
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

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#64994
Dec 12, 2012
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh bohart, you know everything you just wrote applies to only you.
My beliefs are not faith based and I can show it. Yours are based upon a fairy tale. A story you should have been questioning starting at the age of 12 or earlier.
Too bad you and Russell never made the cut for college. You could have learned quite a bit there.
You and Russell are two peas in a pod. Both sorely undereducated. Both of you think that you have faith in your fairy tales, but deep down both of you know that they are false.
I notice that neither of you cowards will openly state your beliefs. You will only say what you don't believe in.
That is the cowards way out. Your fear shows that you know your personal beliefs could be debunked and you are both afraid of that.
I have the answer to your fear. Knowledge brings freedom from fear. Fear is almost always based upon ignorance.
"Education" is highly over-rated
I am quite happy as I am
AND I have tons of friends
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

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#64995
Dec 12, 2012
 
Tinka wrote:
<quoted text>
Wever ignorance knows mostly no fear for a know how can bring some of it not that fear is a real for itself is the most scariest in what can hold someone from moving on...
Give me a Fairy over above God any day and a little girl would say that and to tell a tale well, I can tell you what I would not let my little one listen to just some Preacher...and what all gets bred in Hell...my oh my...
So College where does it have brought you to TOPIX LOL same place it brought me too...
Oh just jumped into the conversation I know a Russell so I thought it was alright...
Can we please go back to the Creation/evolution forum?

This one has way too many wet lettuces...

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TMH...

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Marrickville, Australia

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#64996
Dec 13, 2012
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
"Haldane's Dilemma" is a creationist falsehood. It is a result of creationists mischaracterizing how evolution occurs. Yes, those limited, number "mutations per generation" could be a problem, if there were only two individuals involved per generation. Luckily for us populations evolve and not individuals. In other words in a population of one million there would only have to be roughly one positive mutation per ten thousandth of a generation. Considering that there are over 100 mutations per generation Haldane's limit is clearly not a limit at all.
And your failure to see how the TOE can and does make predictions is not the theories fault, that is clearly your fault. How do you think that they found Tiktaalik? It was done using the predictive power of the TOE along with a knowledge of geology. Other people who have specialties in other areas could surely show how once again you are wrong in their fields.
Lastly, just because you can write up to 4,000 characters does not mean you need to. Most points can be made in a much shorter space.
Tiktaalik has been discredited by a variety of tetrapod footprints dated to 400mya.

You want to talk ervs..just look at you!

You just love to gobble on. You wanted to talk about ervs and have not responded with one word about the topic at hand that you demanded and stomped your foot over, saying that I was evading you.

My algorithmic magic is as good as your algorithmic magic, re Haldane's dilemma which was an aside, because you lot can't decide what the mutation rate is for anything let alone predict the mutation rate of extinct species and population size.

Now get to it or are you running away.

Exactly what scientific basis do evolutionists use to determine if a so called erv is ancestral or independently inserted?

The answer is your own philosophical asumptions of common ancestry. The ervs that do not align are automatically determined to be inserted after separation and the ones that pop up where they shouldn't be are hand waved away as a matter of convergent evolution.

There are numerous ervs that are not shared between chimps and humans and the only thing that makes them recent is the fact that they 'need' to be 'recent' according to TOE.

http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/1...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1...

As for the huge unlikelihood that some erv would be in the 'same' loci, more and more is it being discovered that ervs are loci site specific, that is IF they are ERV's at all.

When functional in any way, that more demonstrates that this genomic material is where it needs to be. It was better for evos when ervs and non coding dna was 'junk'. Now this material is simply where it has to be to perform its' function.

Now evos have to invent stories, they cannot possibly know, as to how a sequence of viral like material sought the exact location it needs to be in to perform the function it performs and did so almost immediately upon insertion. eg mammalian pregnancy.

Evos have gone from ervs and junk dna being functionless and they explained that. Now they will invent more stories to show how dead viral elements became functional and sometimes vitally so, turning all life into a mutated virus. Well done!

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Since: Jul 12

Marrickville, Australia

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#64997
Dec 13, 2012
 
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Can we please go back to the Creation/evolution forum?
This one has way too many wet lettuces...
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TMH...
Evos are full of wet lettuces. They stay as far away from science as they can. Lettuces is a good subject for them. It was hard enough getting this Subby to offer a post worth replying to.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#64998
Dec 13, 2012
 
MazHere wrote:
Tiktaalik has been discredited by a variety of tetrapod footprints dated to 400mya.
Uh yeah sure, the correctly predicted fish-phibian fossil has been "discredited" by footprints found a mere 4-17MYA earlier tops. By footprints made by uh... another fish-phibian.

Duh.
MazHere wrote:
You want to talk ervs..just look at you!
You just love to gobble on. You wanted to talk about ervs and have not responded with one word about the topic at hand that you demanded and stomped your foot over, saying that I was evading you.
My algorithmic magic is as good as your algorithmic magic, re Haldane's dilemma which was an aside, because you lot can't decide what the mutation rate is for anything let alone predict the mutation rate of extinct species and population size.
Now get to it or are you running away.
Exactly what scientific basis do evolutionists use to determine if a so called erv is ancestral or independently inserted?
The answer is your own philosophical asumptions of common ancestry. The ervs that do not align are automatically determined to be inserted after separation and the ones that pop up where they shouldn't be are hand waved away as a matter of convergent evolution.
There are numerous ervs that are not shared between chimps and humans and the only thing that makes them recent is the fact that they 'need' to be 'recent' according to TOE.
http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/1...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1...
Already addressed Maz. Get around to it any time ya like. You answer those questions yet?
MazHere wrote:
As for the huge unlikelihood that some erv would be in the 'same' loci, more and more is it being discovered that ervs are loci site specific
Retroviruses insert themselves randomly. All we need is just one showing orthology. As it happens we don't just have one.
MazHere wrote:
that is IF they are ERV's at all.
Exactly. You can't tell. We can. And we've tested it.
MazHere wrote:
When functional in any way, that more demonstrates that this genomic material is where it needs to be. It was better for evos when ervs and non coding dna was 'junk'. Now this material is simply where it has to be to perform its' function.
Now evos have to invent stories, they cannot possibly know, as to how a sequence of viral like material sought the exact location it needs to be in to perform the function it performs and did so almost immediately upon insertion. eg mammalian pregnancy.
No they don't. It is in fact the very PREMISE of evolution, validated by genetic evidence and experiment.
MazHere wrote:
Evos have gone from ervs and junk dna being functionless and they explained that. Now they will invent more stories to show how dead viral elements became functional and sometimes vitally so, turning all life into a mutated virus. Well done!
Translation: Boo hoo, their science works!
MazHere wrote:
Evos are full of wet lettuces. They stay as far away from science as they can. Lettuces is a good subject for them. It was hard enough getting this Subby to offer a post worth replying to.
Projection again. Got anything substantial for once Maz? Or you prefer to keep lying for Jesus?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#64999
Dec 13, 2012
 
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Ha! the liar Dude strikes again, equating the theory of evolution with gravity! Yet he has said he doesn't do that, mother fockin liar that he is he may not recognize that he does it, the dementia of puddle gooism may have sapped whatever low wattage impulses emit from his brain
No, you keep conflating evolution with abiogenesis. Your ignorance is NOT our problem.

And why are you, a known and confirmed liar accusing other people of lying?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#65000
Dec 13, 2012
 
Russell wrote:
Crick and Hoyle introduced the idea of pan spermia
Since life "evolving" on earth is such a non-starter...
Funny, I don't remember you proving there was no life on Earth.

Life = evolution. Unlucky Russ.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#65001
Dec 13, 2012
 
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Good luck my friend conquering the faith of this puddle gooist, he believes in a lie, knows it's a lie, science can't support his lie yet he trudges onward with the faith of the centurion.
Bub, we've demonstrated and supported evolution. All you do is make lame puddle goo jokes. And ignore it when your pals get caught blatantly lying for Jesus and ignoring the 9th Commandment.

Remember, God is watching...
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#65002
Dec 13, 2012
 
go rilla wrote:
<quoted text>
Where are all the intermediate species between not only man and ape but everything else. evolution lacks evidence period.
Page 885. Try again.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#65003
Dec 13, 2012
 

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Makesure100 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hark Angels..........we have ignorance abounding.
Not your fault. You were brought up to be ignorant.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#65004
Dec 13, 2012
 
Cybele wrote:
And what are you trying to say? That those who benefit from all disciplines of Science must accept the theory of evolution and reject their beliefs? Wow you guys are worse than a dictator.
Just pointing out that rejecting a major science like evolution will have a knock on effect on other subjects. Reject evolution and you reject geology. Reject that you have no oil. Hence no plastics. Meaning you don't have a PC to type on.

Dictator? Nay, you are FREE to reject reality as much as you like.(shrug)
Cybele wrote:
I never said evolution is wrong. I keep saying this over and over that it's a theory not a fact.
Scientific theories NEVER get "proven" to become facts. Theories are MADE UP of facts. There are FACTS of evolution - life changes over time. And the THEORY of evolution, which EXPLAINS those facts.
Cybele wrote:
Unless genetics can provide evidence. It's really hard to determine from a non-scientist point of view the authenticity of a fossil evidence.
Genetics provides lots. In fact we don't NEED fossils. Genetics demonstrates evolution on its own.
Cybele wrote:
And I don't care who gives a crap about my experience. They or you can kiss my ass and piss off!
Mmmmmwah! xx

“I started out with nothing”

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Since: Nov 10

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#65005
Dec 13, 2012
 
Jesus Diablo wrote:
Arguing apples (beliefs=religion) with oranges (facts=science) will never answer the problem. It's a categorical mistake. You'll just go round 'n round trying to convince a believer with facts or trying to dispel facts with beliefs.
With that said, I think the more interesting question is if there is a deity, to which religion does it belong? Hindu? Islam? Inca? Christian? etc. There must be hundreds of religious deities each with their own unique sacred and infallible religious texts (the bible, Quran, etc). One would think you'd better have chosen the right one or face the consequences. So what makes one religion the correct one and the others not?
Over 3700 documented deities since the Sumarians, prior to that who knows? Of those 3700 at least 2400 are identified as gods or goddesses.

And we can also break that down into branches of a particular religion, take christianity for example with of 37000 different cults. Each claiming theirs is the only way and most claiming that unless you are of their cult you will not get to heaven.

As to what makes a religion (or a cult) the right one, well of course it all depends which one the particular believer belongs to, that is obviously the correct one.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#65006
Dec 13, 2012
 
Russell wrote:
And all the transitional fossils are ...where????
Page 1, other thread, always ignored by fundies, never addressed. Along with everything else.
Russell wrote:
Not at all
Your perspective is all wrong, Bud
Natural selection is NOT EVOLUTION
It's an integral part of it, along with other mechanisms.
Russell wrote:
The evolutionary paradigm DEMANDS species that are lower in the "evolutionary tree of life"
Ah, so you don't understand evolution. CONGRATULATIONS!
Russell wrote:
Thus, microbes to man, pelicans to people, goo to you
Abio ain't relevant. Sorry.
Russell wrote:
Natural selection was described first by a number of others, including a Christian, Edward Blyth
"Edward Blyth (1810–1873) was the man whose ideas probably influenced Darwin most.
Cool.
Russell wrote:
Also, new evidence has emerged that Scottish geologist, Dr James Hutton (1726–1797), conceived a theory of selection as early as 1794.
(Hutton is best known as the man who proposed that the earth was ‘immeasurably’ old, not thousands of years, because he rejected the Flood of the Bible and so erroneously assumed that there were no major catastrophes in the earth’s early history. WRONG!
We know. He wasn't wrong about the flood or the Earth being old tho.
Russell wrote:
blah
A systematic classification system of the natural order of life does not pre-suppose evolution
No it didn't. But evolution is the only one that explains it. It makes no sense under creationism as God can do things anyway the heck it wants. Hence they can't make predictions from it. So what's the likelihood of a fossil with feathers and 3 middle-ear bones? Under Magic Poof theory, 50-50.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#65007
Dec 13, 2012
 
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
"There is the theory that all the living forms in the world have arisen from a single source which itself came from an inorganic form. This theory can be called the ‘General Theory of Evolution’ and the evidence that supports it is not sufficiently strong to allow us to consider it as anything more than a working hypothesis. It is not clear whether the changes that bring about speciation are of the same nature as those that brought about the development of new phyla. The answer will be found in future experimental work and not by the dogmatic assertions that the General Theory of Evolution must be correct because there is nothing else that will satisfactorily take its place.”
—Kerkut, G.A.(1927–2004), Implications of Evolution, Pergamon, Oxford, UK, p. 157, 1960 (available online in the Public Domain at ia600409.us.archive.org/23/items/implications... ).
Nothing satisfactorily takes its place even now....that is naturalistic
Sorry. Evolution still doesn't rely on abio.

“I started out with nothing”

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Since: Nov 10

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#65008
Dec 13, 2012
 

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TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
WRONG-WRONG-and WRONG.
You seem to be a classic example of that river in Egypt--dat one dey callz DE NIAL ==ESPECIALLY of the TRUTH .
And in true hateful free speech ofagnostic form, I shall add--Hedonist, delusional, degenerate LIAR.
Atheists Irk Einstein
In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human understanding, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views.
— Prince Hubertus zu Löwenstein, Towards the Further Shore (Victor Gollancz, London, 1968), p. 156; quoted in Jammer, p. 97
I was barked at by numerous dogs who are earning their food guarding ignorance and superstition for the benefit of those who profit from it. Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is of the same kind as the intolerance of the religious fanatics and comes from the same source. They are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who—in their grudge against the traditional "opium of the people"—cannot bear the music of the spheres. The Wonder of nature does not become smaller because one cannot measure it by the standards of human moral and human aims.
— Einstein to an unidentified adressee, Aug.7, 1941. Einstein Archive, reel 54-927, quoted in Jammer, p. 97
Atheists Miss the Wonder of the World

You find it strange that I consider the comprehensibility of the world (to the extent that we are authorized to speak of such a comprehensibility) as a miracle or an eternal mystery. Well a priori one should expect a chaotic world which cannot be grasped by the mind in anyway. One could (yes one should) expect the world to be subjected to law only to the extent that we order it through our intelligence. Ordering of this kind would be like the alphabetical ordering of the words of a language. By contrast, the kind of order created by Newton's theory of gravitation, for instance, is wholly different. Even if the axioms of the theory are proposed by man, the success of such a project presupposes a high degree of ordering of the objective world, and this could not be expected a priori. That is the "miracle" which is being constantly re-enforced as our knowledge expands.
Nope, not wrong. There is much misrepresentation and misinterpretation and deliberate lies about Einstein’s thoughts. He made himself clear on several occasions

“Religious apologists cannot entirely be blamed for claiming Albert Einstein as one of their own. He was fond of quoting "God" as a poetic metaphor, in rather irresponsible fashion although, to be fair in turn to Einstein, he couldn't have anticipated the extent of today's dishonest quote-mining.“ Richard Dawkins

Einstien wrote that he had gradually lost his faith early in childhood:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_...

Einstein stated: "I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one.

Einstein wrote: "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These subtilised interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions.”

Einstein used many labels to describe his religious views, including "agnostic", "religious nonbeliever" and a believer in "Spinoza's God."

“I started out with nothing”

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Since: Nov 10

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#65009
Dec 13, 2012
 
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> An angry one is an hungry one. Get some lunch or break, loser. Lol
You are doing it again, effectively condemning your lack of intelligence on my anger and I have told you before the last time I got angry with a christians is when they tried to KILL my children and before than when they tries to KILL me.

Juts because you come across as a 10000Watt LYING christian had buggerall with my temperament

I love the way you are too stupid to realise you are beaten, keep it up, looser

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

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#65010
Dec 13, 2012
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean genetic distance that results from isolation by distance?
<quoted text>
You really think the Great Wall goes back millions of years ago? LOL. Do you know what humor/sarcasm means? Physical boundaries mayb have caused genetic distance but how do you think the Native Indians cross over one continent to another?
<quoted text>
Do you have evidence of that?
Yes.

Say what? please read my post – I wrote QUOTE ”The great wall of China was built about 2200 years ago” ENDQUOTE

Where the fook do you get millions of years from. is it deliberate ignorance? You are the on who brought up the great wall let me quote you –“LOL! You do know there are myriads of mountains everywhere right? BTW, they built that Great Wall of China. LMAO”

Yes
http://www.direct-ms.org/pdf/NutritionFats/Si...
http://irpee.bio.uci.edu/ReznickGhalambor2001...

http://irpee.bio.uci.edu/ReznickGhalambor2001...
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2011/12/13/...
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

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#65011
Dec 13, 2012
 
If we consider man from our beginnings, we have been seperated from the other creatures and our refinements are mostly associated with large brain to body size and bipedal locomotion allowing us to more creativly use our hands in conjunction with the cognate mind. The European word "man" means thinker or "men" means to think. The word "man" may have origins from old English "mann" and Gothic "manna" and Proto Germanic "mannaz". We don't know for sure what our Creator called us, but we may be "whatsh macallit" because the Hebrew word "Man', mannah or man hu" sounds similar. The word "mannah" means which you didn't know and 'Man', means What is it? REF Exodus 16:15,31 and Dueteronomy 8:3.

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