Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#65044 Dec 13, 2012
Reply to Dudes waffle
Translation: Boo hoo, their science works!
Quack quack. Evidence please. Make it peer reviewed seeing as you lot like to quack about it so much yet NEVER present any. Anything you provide, if you bothered, has a base of maybe and perhaps.
Projection again. Got anything substantial for once Maz? Or you prefer to keep lying for Jesus?
Quack quack. Evidence please. Make it peer reviewed seeing as you lot like to quack about it so much yet NEVER present any. Anything you provide, if you bothered, has a base of maybe and perhaps.
Yes actually I do. Evos have never observed reverse transcribe in action endogenizing into any genome. It is theoretical modelling and is likely screwing up any possibility of medical advancement on genetic therapies.

It seems strange that there are NO examples of gene transduction by retrovirus into the germline of new hosts. Why is it that DNA viruses that have the theroized capacity to integrate into the host DNA not been detected in the germ line.

But most importantly there are many examples of missing ervs in mankind and those that nest gorilla with chimp to the exclusion of man. These are hand waved away on nothing more than a preconceived assumption all of it being dependent on boot strapping to an already preconcluded assumption.

Your theory that ervs MAY be the result of past retroviral infection is not substantiated in any way. Indeed you cannot tell if these functional remnants caused retorvirus, which is more likely. Evo assumptions are purely theoretical from top to bottom and is going exactly the same way all the evo gobble went around junk dna in general, falsification with more stories to follow.

Evos needed junk, refuse and vestigiallity. Creos need functionality with no refuse to support a created genome. Evos junk is being taken from their quivering hands to demonstrate that TOE has the predictive capacity of a crystal ball and rests on the psuedo science of being unfalsifiable and unstable. Evos will eventually align themselves with creationists, and invent a plethora of ridiculous myths to back peddle and will still look all scientifically retarded. Ha ha!

BTW...I see the evotards are back discussing BS philosophies again

I see Subby has disappeared after stomping his feet so much over ervs that they have ended up in his mouth.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#65045 Dec 13, 2012
Maz, do you understand that the frequency of ERV's ever attaching themselves successfully to genome is a very very rare event? You might as well try to dispute the lottery since no lottery winner has ever come from a laboratory experiment.

I believe that I can count the number of different ERV's between chimp and man with the fingers of one hand (of course I am smarter than the average bear so that number may be higher than you would first think). That makes it a very rare event since there were millions of years since the separation.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#65046 Dec 13, 2012
Maz, here is an article that describes how they know that ERV's are viruses. Not only do they look exactly like viruses, but when a ERV was separated from its genome it was able to infect the species:

"We know ERVs are actual remnants of viruses—and not just because they look exactly like viruses, although that should be evidence enough. In 2006, a team of French scientists actually revived an ERV from the human genome, which they dubbed "Phoenix." When introduced to a cluster of human cells, Phoenix was able to infect them—which would of course be impossible if Phoenix wasn't a real virus that actually infected one of our distant ancestors."

http://othersidereflections.blogspot.com/2011...

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#65047 Dec 13, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
Maz, do you understand that the frequency of ERV's ever attaching themselves successfully to genome is a very very rare event? You might as well try to dispute the lottery since no lottery winner has ever come from a laboratory experiment.
I believe that I can count the number of different ERV's between chimp and man with the fingers of one hand (of course I am smarter than the average bear so that number may be higher than you would first think). That makes it a very rare event since there were millions of years since the separation.
You may be smarter than the average bear but you are not smarter than the average human, that being me.

When you finally decide to actually address my post and the points and questions I present then you can reply to me.

For the moment this waffle, with NO research means you are a lazy quacker and will never win any point on a properly moderated one to one debate.

I can provide numerous examples of non shared and missing ervs. Why should I bother? I support each and every claim I make usually with peer reviewed researh and I have to put up with the likes of quackers like you and Dude providing nothing more than hot air that is usually outdated.

Here Dude is some support for a creationist paradigm.

Recent evaluation of the human genome sequencing data revealed that about 9% of the human genome is comprised of elements with long terminal repeats (LTRs)(LTR retrotransposons)(36, 43, 84) comprising over 200 families (30). The majority of these LTR elements, however, lack sequence similarity to retroviral genes within their internal region or constitute solitary LTRs.

Furthermore, there is evidence that transcription of at least some HERV families may be differentially regulated depending on the cell type. Characterization of promoter activities of HERV-K, HERV-H, HERV-E, ERV9, and HERV-W families, the most intensively studied HERVs, revealed specific cell type preferences for each HERV family, and even individual elements of one family showed significant variation in transcription pattern. In some cases, transcription factor binding sites that interact with cell type-specific nuclear factors could be identified, demonstrating that the expression of HERVs is regulated in a complex and diverse manner comparable to cellular genes.”

http://jvi.asm.org/cgi/content/full/79/1/341

http://jvi.asm.org/content/79/1/341.full

What Made the Same ERV Transcribe Differently Among Different Cell Types Within the Same Organism? Design explains it, not evolution.

Why are there NO Examples of an ERV that Has Been Recently "Endogenized" or Examples of ERVS that Have A Direct Exogenous Counterpart?

Because ervs are not the remnants of past retroviral infections. If they were and if so many had endogenized so much evos should be observing numerous examples now and the fact is they are not.

Above is just one line of evidence that evos are grabbing at sraws using a crytal ball and in actual fact there is no evidence that retrovirus can or do endogenize at all.

Rather the data demonstrates functionality and genomic material being positioned right where it needs to be to perform the function evolutionists spent over a decade telling us they did not have.

Hence, again, creationist claims and predictions are being validated in time whilst evolutionary claims and predictions are gradually being falsified and reinvented.

Go get a life Subby. Your point score demonstrates you actually do not have one!

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#65048 Dec 13, 2012
Your theory that ervs MAY be the result of past retroviral infection is not substantiated in any way. Indeed you cannot tell if these functional remnants caused retorvirus, which is more likely. Evo assumptions are purely theoretical from top to bottom and is going exactly the same way all the evo gobble went around junk dna in general, falsification with more stories to follow.
Umm, no. Remember the ERV that was resurrected? Most ERV's are past resurrection. They have been in the genome too long. The one that the French team found was a very recent ERV. Other ERV's that are found in the human genome only, and therefore are relatively recent already have fatal mutations so that they cannot exist as viruses on their own anymore:

http://119.93.223.179/ScienceD irect/Current%20Biology/11-19/ sdarticle_019.pdf

And it seems no one has done the particular research I suggested. That is of comparing known ERV's that were originally the same between say mice, chimps, and men. If I am right there should be a small genetic difference between man and chimp and a much larger one between either man and mouse or chimps and mouse.

Maz, you have already claimed twice that there would be no difference in ERV's.

Prepare for a moving of the goal posts.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#65049 Dec 13, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
You may be smarter than the average bear but you are not smarter than the average human, that being me.
When you finally decide to actually address my post and the points and questions I present then you can reply to me.
For the moment this waffle, with NO research means you are a lazy quacker and will never win any point on a properly moderated one to one debate.
I can provide numerous examples of non shared and missing ervs. Why should I bother? I support each and every claim I make usually with peer reviewed researh and I have to put up with the likes of quackers like you and Dude providing nothing more than hot air that is usually outdated.
Here Dude is some support for a creationist paradigm.
Recent evaluation of the human genome sequencing data revealed that about 9% of the human genome is comprised of elements with long terminal repeats (LTRs)(LTR retrotransposons)(36, 43, 84) comprising over 200 families (30). The majority of these LTR elements, however, lack sequence similarity to retroviral genes within their internal region or constitute solitary LTRs.
Furthermore, there is evidence that transcription of at least some HERV families may be differentially regulated depending on the cell type. Characterization of promoter activities of HERV-K, HERV-H, HERV-E, ERV9, and HERV-W families, the most intensively studied HERVs, revealed specific cell type preferences for each HERV family, and even individual elements of one family showed significant variation in transcription pattern. In some cases, transcription factor binding sites that interact with cell type-specific nuclear factors could be identified, demonstrating that the expression of HERVs is regulated in a complex and diverse manner comparable to cellular genes.”
http://jvi.asm.org/cgi/content/full/79/1/341
http://jvi.asm.org/content/79/1/341.full
What Made the Same ERV Transcribe Differently Among Different Cell Types Within the Same Organism? Design explains it, not evolution.
Why are there NO Examples of an ERV that Has Been Recently "Endogenized" or Examples of ERVS that Have A Direct Exogenous Counterpart?
Because ervs are not the remnants of past retroviral infections. If they were and if so many had endogenized so much evos should be observing numerous examples now and the fact is they are not.
Above is just one line of evidence that evos are grabbing at sraws using a crytal ball and in actual fact there is no evidence that retrovirus can or do endogenize at all.
Rather the data demonstrates functionality and genomic material being positioned right where it needs to be to perform the function evolutionists spent over a decade telling us they did not have.
Hence, again, creationist claims and predictions are being validated in time whilst evolutionary claims and predictions are gradually being falsified and reinvented.
Go get a life Subby. Your point score demonstrates you actually do not have one!
More noxious fumes from your blue waffle.

You greatly over estimate your own intelligence. An intelligent person would not misinterpret article after article that actually oppose what you claim. Non-shared ERV's are not an issue for the theory of evolution. Missing ones may be, depending upon how you define "missing". Knowing you and your extremely poor reading comprehension it is more likely that you saw an article that said humans are missing some of the ERV's that other apes have. Now if chimps and gorillas have these missing ERV's that is a problem, if they are held by gorillas and orangutans that is not a problem. Do you know why? Probably not.

And I don't really need research to point out the obvious. With up to hundreds of thousands of generations between ERV's being affixed in nature is it any wonder that they are never seen to fix themselves in the lab? Common sense should have explained to you why this is a nonisssue Maz.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Patagonia

#65050 Dec 13, 2012
I fish wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you mean to say that during the dark ages God's will was being done on earth as it was being done in heaven?
A couple caveats to that. One is that there is no heaven. two is that there is no God. Therefore there was no 'God's will' being done on earth or in heaven.

But, during the 'Dark Ages' the Universal Church was interpreting the scripture it had...to mean whatever they wanted it to mean. They killed people indiscriminately and in general terrorized the whole population of Europe and parts of Asia. Millions were killed in the name of the Christian God.

Religion, no matter what the brand, is terribly corrosive to human life.
Some Random Dude

Santa Cruz, CA

#65051 Dec 13, 2012
"Jesus Loves You". A nice thing to hear in church... A horrific thing to hear if you are in a Mexican prison.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#65052 Dec 13, 2012
Maz is of course working at a huge disadvantage whenever she posts here. She likes to back up her claims with peer reviewed articles. That's good. The problem for her is that there are no peer reviewed articles that agree with her beliefs. So the best she can do is to misread and misinterpret existing pro-evolution articles. Articles where different authors argue about how or when a particular species of family appeared is not an anti-evolution article. So even if some paleontologists believe that birds evolved earlier than Archaeopteryx that is not in any way at all support for creationism. Discussions of how ERV's react is very hard to use to defeat the idea of ERV's.

So right now I guess I am waiting for an article on "missing ERV's. Maybe next year she will get into something more substantial, but I doubt it.

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#65053 Dec 13, 2012
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
A couple caveats to that. One is that there is no heaven. two is that there is no God. Therefore there was no 'God's will' being done on earth or in heaven.
But, during the 'Dark Ages' the Universal Church was interpreting the scripture it had...to mean whatever they wanted it to mean. They killed people indiscriminately and in general terrorized the whole population of Europe and parts of Asia. Millions were killed in the name of the Christian God.
Religion, no matter what the brand, is terribly corrosive to human life.
If there's no heaven, the souls of those who have faith in the one true God and are no longer breathing or medically 'alive' are where exactly? I didn't even address the whole 'there's no god' claim. I might puke.
God created Human life. Yours too. someone has corroded you perhaps,but there is a sweet reality inside the Love of God that has nothing to do with institutions...be they government/atheist or other religions.

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#65054 Dec 13, 2012
Yawn.
For the love of drama, people read stories. For the lack of drama, people write them. Is that true? I would write about certain bold moments that don’t seem to lack drama for the sake of freedom. Who cares if it’s read. It will be words put down that may serve anyone who loves freedom. Do you think that just means being a rebel? Have you bravely said ‘no’ to oppressive leadership…? The ones that don’t hear a denial-to-submit frequently…and on hearing it will undoubtedly tell you…. YOU ARE OFFBOARD. YOU ARE EVIL. YOU NEED TO BE LESS SELFISH. You are a good reason for them to get mad. I can agree. I’ve been off-board. I’ve been evil. I could be less selfish. AND SO COULD THEY. Loving leaders is saying no to them sometimes. It might disrupt the ‘peace’…but what is peace with injustice, but a lie? Deception in any quantity causes deep hurt. The truth is leaders do not always know that they oppress. They may just do something that signifies their belief that the end justifies the means. That may involve swearing, belittling, condescending, insulting, complaining, demanding, manipulating and lying. Of course you can’t just point that out all the time. Be strong. People often don’t know they are lying, who claim they are going to conquer, but do not know that, indeed, not all the power of heaven is bestowed on them. If revolution toward any authority occurs in your life, may it not just be in your name only…But in the name of the God who cares for the oppressed. CAST ALL YOUR CARES ON HIM FOR HE CARES FOR YOU. He makes a way out from oppression. He cares for them (the OPRESSORS) it’s true…but not them only as it seems they would have you believe.

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#65055 Dec 13, 2012
Oh I know! This could be my intro to the story about how Christians are oppressed through the workplace, the educational institutions etc. When saying abortion or homosexuality is wrong is to be a criminal. Loving Jesus and declaring Him as the hope for the world is to join the ‘dark’ side in the world that loves darkness. Aren’t there enough books that portray Christians as mind-washed robots following a God from the dark ages? A people that are born of tradition and not critical thinking skills? They (Christians) are public enemy number one….because of that book they read that declares that righteousness is something…besides indulging in all the things that go against nature. People want to indulge. Christians inhibit their indulgence. How? Christians indulge!... Even sin. Some still preach repentance… repenting from sin and turning toward a God of love and mercy. That is the ultimate submission-to-authority. Human authority will many times fail to keep this on the horizon. Jesus is the High Priest and those who embrace Him as such find freedom that makes their ’superiors’ jealous. To lift up the name of Jesus Christ as Lord over all…makes the wanna-be-lords over all upset.

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#65056 Dec 13, 2012
I’ve just admitted Christians sin…and the passionate church-institution-raised atheist/diest/other reader laughs at yet another poor hypocrite…blinded by arrogant dogmas of the past…. Too weak to stand without a fairy-tale type of god. I cannot speak to this person. Only God truly can…. Yet he/she claims that God doesn’t, never will and never can (only ‘liars for Jesus’ claim to speak in His name)…any more than hell exists. Bingo! Yes it does. Ignore me with pride. Holiness is eternal. God is/has a Holy Spirit. This is the Spirit of truth, of power, of comfort. No Christian succeeds in living a life that glorifies God without help from the Holy Spirit of God. There is a battle in Christians of the spirit and the flesh. God gives grace to those who follow him in humility and faith. Do you view certain faithless Church-institution-raised disappointed souls as Pied Pipers? Intelligent to learn about their own religion seek the final height of human authority and find that those deny the word of God as supreme in acceptance of human authority and a fantastic rush of temporary power. These once hopeful folks despise religion on every level. With REASON. These followed the authority of men from the beginning thinking it was God-related. Church history reveals that authority in the name of Christ has been used to further selfish causes and bring power to men rather than souls to the kingdom. That does not, however, negate that there is good done in the name of Christ which has nothing to do with power for human authorities. The pied pipers, feeling jilted or lied to, feeling surrounded by hypocrisy will go to any length to deny the existence of God…. the goodness of God, the oneness of God, the righteousness of God etc. Choosing this faithless stance, morality and ethics become a grey area in many many ways. Rebellion against the entire word of God (out of anger) occurs. If He destroyed everyone but Noah and his immediate family…He’s really evil. If He created Hell, He’s all about watching people suffer. The bible is made up stories to control you….don’t let them succeed. Ignore ancient rules regarding ‘one man and one woman’… regarding anything. Act like a superior to the Christians who grovel before this god of hate and limit your precious liberties even referring to them as darkness. Millions of years ago people were happy until the God story got started….(Note: weak people need a fairy tale. Be it the God story or evolution in the name of science)
I want you to know when I read about the Pied Piper… I’m on his side. All about vengeance. He doesn’t seem like the bad guy…He seems smart, musical, justified and bold. He just does what he wants (takes children) because he didn’t get paid for doing his job…possibly what he didn’t want to do (taking rats)…this is the oversimplified version. But really the Pied Piper and I should talk. Someone is bolder than the Pied Pipers

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#65057 Dec 13, 2012
Someone hates the injustice toward the Pied Pipers more than the Pied Pipers themselves and yet finds the power to give everything from mercy, forgiveness and love to grace, healing, restoration and joy. But to the villagers whoever they are….be it unbelieving Church Institution Zombies, Christians that do not bring Glory to God or those who’ve twisted God’s word and become a sort of cult and could care less for showing righteousness….be careful…ARE you aware of what the Pied Pipers are capable of doing? Who after a lifetime of saying yes to authority discover they’d be better off if not only they themselves say no but if the entire situation is reversed and they hold the leading role.

&#9885; •†•†•†•†•† &#9885;

They wore red. They spoke of world peace. They taught of the evils of religion and the inhibitions which ancient rituals and laws were responsible for causing. Religion equaled wars that devastated the earth. They sold freedom for the price of your faith in God. Their currency had an engraving which said “Are we not all gods or pigs?”. Nothing was vile to them. They were offended that any person would consider certain actions they took to be vile. Such intolerance was punished severely. Pleasure of any lust was legal and official. Drugs were prescribed to the well people to increase the need for them within the entire society so that those who relied on them might increase their use. No one was a brother. No one was a sister. Everyone was called ‘Brister’. There were letter number combinations to identify specifics. Brister J35 was a male (most five ending numbers were male someone in the system apparently thought it was in the name of organization to do such a thing….but was later prosecuted for discriminating between the sexes….but that was after numbers had been applied to billions of individuals, he was taken to the under chamber…never seen again). BristerJ35 wore the red cape with five pig heads on the shoulder…. Like a five-pig-head-general….But that was the only thing that showed his importance. He was a vegan. His hair was beginning to grey. He was an eloquent spokesman for the Piper movement everywhere. He really had an interesting background….which might help you understand his passion.
When Brister J35 was a boy, he didn’t wear red as a rule accept now and then. His parents were by and large indifferent toward each other. He might have wondered why they were together at all…other than they were a matching kind of cold. He was baptized as an infant into a church organization. He tried to believe

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#65058 Dec 13, 2012
the bread was the real….real body of Jesus and the wine was the real….real blood of Jesus. Something about flour and grapes kept distracting his sincerity in statements regarding that…so he avoiding making them. He was uncomfortable in his spirit at having to avoid making statements that reflected a genuine concern about the credibility of the bread and the wine (symbols were understandable but magic seemed corny)…but he was not an irreverent sort. His mother was reverent, she probably thought it was wrong to smile. That’s how reverent she was. His Father was more like counting on spending time in a theoretical location between heaven and hell, which is always a gamble when it’s a thin theory to begin with…. He smiled; and when he didn’t feel like smiling… he drank so that he’d feel more like smiling. That was usually all the time. This boy loved his parents a great deal, but he couldn’t help thinking that they were missing something and someone was cheating them out of just enjoying life in a very simple way. The church organization was supposed to have answers and yet it couldn’t make his mother loose her burden, rather it caused her to become so obsessed with being perfect that she forgot to focus on anything pertaining to a normal, natural, happy life and was frustrated at anything imperfect…(this was at least every day). Her son always wondered what it would sound like if she laughed. Nor could the church organization have a refining influence on his rather stubborn father…who was content to be lazy and had an attitude which made his own son blush when the man expressed his opinions of himself and others at leisure. He seemed like a hypocrite on a grand scale. He boasted in about every other breath. The boy was an only child. He seemed to make his parents pleased with him as far as that went. He often felt like it was impossible to agree with both parents at the same time, but they were so focused on their lives…that if what they said disagreed…and that was discovered…the meaning of their words was merely changed. His father was an expert at the “well that’s the way it should be”…lecture when everything had taken place in the precise manner he had said it shouldn’t be…before. He was a liar who knew no shame. He always had nice things to say to everyone…skillfully rehearsed. He achieved his goals of gratifying everyone’s pride and insuring that if anyone was ill-humored toward him, it must be their own problem. The boy loved his father because on some level his father wasn’t afraid of people and didn’t really care about their beliefs….the way his mother did. But she was a tenacious lady, she knew what pleased the people around her, she worked to produce picturesque perfection in all things. He thought his mother was beautiful, but unhappy.
You wouldn’t know it from the cold hardened man in red known as Brister J35…but he loved a girl once. She was one with a bad reputation, she scared other girls. She’d no interest in church institutions. He loved

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#65059 Dec 13, 2012
her. He brought her home to meet the parents. They said ‘find a church institution girl son’ basically. He went and married her anyway. The marriage was forcefully ended before a month had passed. A tragedy he buried deep in his heart. He moved far away….and his parents paid for him to travel and study. He studied religion. His passion for answers was largely disappointed by conversations with men in authority… who had been trained well in the art of belittling or simply did not care about the responsibility to proclaim truth…and found that they did not themselves believe truth even existed. Brister J35 began to see the church institution as a corrupting influence in the world which prevented the freedom of love. It burdened people with worry, trying to please and forgetting to just live in a healthy normal way. He found numbers of people who were geared towards leaving the institution. Some of them were just jealous because they wanted to get the money that was going to that organization and they had the guts to say they deserved it more….in a sneaky not-that-obvious way. Some of them worried him. What was he attaching himself to? Rebels? He believed in men to a fault. He thought they were merely deceived by the God story…or that the God story had turned them into tyrants who were the blackest people on earth. He wanted to burn church institutions. But he was eloquent and civil. Burning wasn’t his style. He began lecturing at large campuses and political gatherings.“The Pied Piper’s Mercy”…was his lecture title.
He already called himself Brister J35 (he was thirty-five when he started lecturing). At the assembly of students for world leadership conference on June 4th he gave this speech:
“I don’t come before you today as a brother or a sister….but as BRISTER.[Soft ripples of laughter would be heard here.] You laugh? One name for everyone eliminates insults on a grand scale. The world does not have unity among people. But I’ve been observing animals around the world. I notice that the pigs in the united states oink in the same tones as those in Brazil, China, Tajikistan, Spain, Ireland, you name it. A Pig from anywhere survives joining new pig culture. Pigs are not entangled in laws and rituals that cause them to be miserable and unhappy and at war with each other over which set of rules is better. Nor do they force each other to undergo disciplines that inhibit the freedom of their lifestyles. The eat. They live, they love and they laugh. They do…well I saw a pig with a tattoo that said “live love laugh” somewhere anyway. I have to say on meeting all the humans and professors and authorities I’ve ever had the honor of talking with….the pigs have won my sincere admiration over all. How many of you have had a pet pig?[A few hands go up]. Energetic little

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#65060 Dec 13, 2012
creatures eh? What I see is a sad waste of energy among humans. There is energy to be used for the ultimate good, the ultimate life of freedom, but people are enslaved to various things…dare I say to the idea of God? Close your eyes and imagine a new earth, there are no wars. Everyone just lives how they want to live. Who doesn’t want to live? May I recount for you an illustration. I’m using the Pied Piper for my example. There are people in a village suffering a plague. They know they have a plague of rats. They cannot fix it. Here comes the Pied Piper who for a price will fix it. They shake hands on the deal. He does what he said he would do and in return is met with no gratitude. He is a man wronged. But is it not better for the one who knows unrighteousness when he receives it… to take away the children,(perhaps to bring them up in the safety of his own counsel). This to avoid any further perverted, lying, cheating admonishment of those whose offspring they are. So numb to evil…that they have no problem forgetting to be happy about life without rats. They truly wanted to enjoy life without rats…that was the element of truth in their lives at some point….and why couldn’t they remember when the rats were gone that they were now living? They were LIVING! They had the ability to give….and they did not give. People who are not living need recounsel. I want to add a chapter to the Mercy of the Pied Piper. Are children who follow the tunes and counsel of the Pied Piper ever unhappy? Humans are incredible creatures, well equipped to survive; while it might be a painful separation from the Villagers at first how could children who are taught to accept all things (without bothering about whether God does or doesn’t exist) be discontent? Protection from the sort of people who will always injure in the name of the law (handed to them by an imaginary God who is unjust when it serves to their advantage) is perhaps necessary. I see no regrets in positive changes. Now perhaps those same children have a chance to grow up. Should they encounter a problem with rats and have an opportunity to reward the one who relieves them, as justly as possible, they will have no other idea, but to do what comes naturally. To accept the work of a stranger. I know some of you are thinking this is a rather childish lecture. Exaggerating the church institution as the villagers whose crime is apathy/ NOT CARING about injustice on any scale as long as their own lives go on without problems. If anyone has an example of how the church institution has enriched their life and set them free please let him speak now. I’ll wait.”
Brister J35 waited. The silence was powerful. He lengthened the silence to 15 minutes.
Did Brister J35 want to hear good things came from the church institution? Was he triumphant in that silence? Was he not asking honest questions? Waiting for the answers. Pushing people to know what reality they faced…supposing no one else truly wished to help them.

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#65061 Dec 13, 2012
While his speeches were extremely motivational and born of an energy he could not suppress, he was never willing to show emotion. Especially the one humans then called ‘disappointment’. He appealed to the minds of people and to their hearts….but mostly his logic took him and others in a direction of faith (even though that word was never whispered)…oddly enough…‘perfection on earth is possible once the final problem is weeded out’ was the vision. People believed life would soon change if this man could be promoted to power. As such Brister J35 continued speaking. Many people began calling themselves and each other Brister…sometimes they still attached their own individual old-fashioned birth names. Many people began wearing red cloaks. Meetings were held nationwide on a weekly basis and the topics were issued down from Brister J35’s journal (also simply called Brister’s Journal as he was the first Brister so there was no confusion over which Brister or which journal they were talking about). A topic might be “How loyalty to church institutions is similar to pest control (as luring rats out) because both are done in vain.” The worksheets involved questions regarding the reasons why people volunteered in their churches. Why did the Pied Piper lure the rats away? What was their level of contentment on completion of church institution assignments? Is it true that people who care are capable of more than people who do not care? How did the church institution people treat them? How was the Pied Piper treated? What was the Pied Piper ultimately capable of doing? What is the next mode of action? It was a very freeing exercise. The success of Brister J35’s agenda was attributed to his charisma and his easy to follow idea that no people are wrong…. The God story is wrong.(of course you must not think too hard about those statements and say “what if a person claims the God story is right? Is that person also not wrong?”...because that is the one kind of person that was problematic and better left unheeded before their thought processes spread to contaminate more of society than they already had) This appealed to people everywhere. When anyone, especially those belonging to the church institution said that God was a good influence in their lives… the popular response became “get a pet pig!” as if to find a truly pure influence. The pig industry had doubled in just two years. Certain Pig farmers were watched more closely by the government…. They were never allowed to refer to the animals as bacon….ham or any other once popular forms in which Pigs had before appeared in domestic households. Does that sound like a “thou shalt not….”? Thou shalt not ask if a pig is pork!
While Brister J35 did not like laws openly….he walked into a position of power where people begged him to give them laws…A humble man wouldn’t have refused…and of course Brister J35 didn’t either. Still he tried to

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

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#65062 Dec 13, 2012
tone them down…and when the suggested punishment for say calling a pig pork… even struck him as a bit severe….He at least tried to exaggerate the gravity of the crime so that on paper everything looked fair: No demeaning the living by referring to them as sustenance for your own life….or you will become the sustenance for theirs. Even if he had second thoughts about what must inevitably replace faith in God and laws from God….He had suffered enough at the hands of the church institution to suppose that everything and anything must be an improvement on their ancient evils….even if it was less than perfect as he had a clue that it would be….but that was because weeding out God is a lengthy process…. It could well take till fifty years after he was dead for people to reap the full benefit of his life’s work. It’s just a good thing he got started when he did.
>>>>XXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXX<<<<
It was a cold, clear winter day and Brister J35 was having breakfast at a Pied Pigs 4 Pipers. The popular breakfast dish was oatmeal with strawberries, sunflower seeds and raisins served with brown sugar and a dash of salt. The red outfit didn’t look horrible on him. Not everyone who wore it, could say as much, nevertheless they wore it with pride. His body guards were never obvious. They waited outside, visiting each other. The representative for crimes against the Bristerhood (known as BristerI8U) suddenly appeared in the building (the guards knew him). He looked strangely troubled. Brister J35 asked him to seat himself. As Brister I8U sat, blood from a right leg wound and a profound wince revealed a large tumult of sorts had occurred.
“Have you had medical attention?”
“That can wait something urgent has come up. You know the Pied Pig Park?”
Brister J35 just waited to hear the rest.
“The feeding was going as usual, Pigs were running toward the grub. Some of the grub splatted up on my leg here, when the man feeding them fell down as he threw it. A pig bit it off and had me pinned to the ground….It was one of the 200 pound pigs we just imported…I was screaming I think, and not quite myself…suddenly this old lady shoots it in cold blood! The shots are still echoing in my mind. She just took a gun from one of the men near me who’d been startled by my screaming. She handed his gun back to him. And said ‘I don’t think that pig was a god…bacon anyone?’. We read her her rights, and she’s being detained in the county jail.”
BristerJ35.“Has she apologized for her statement?”

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#65063 Dec 13, 2012
“well we did broach that she would probably have to; but we think she’s a rebel or insane. The story is spreading all over the town. Someone caught the shooting on their I-phone.”
“Alright I’ll go there. You must see a doctor quickly.”
The County Jail was five minutes away. BristerJ35 entered and was immediately led to the killer.“Brister what is your code?”
“I’m BristerB41”
Her voice was clear and bold. It made him stop for some reason, he himself did not know.“Where are you from Brister B41?”
She named a small town hundreds of miles away.
Brister J35 was from the same town.“That’s odd” Now suddenly his eyes popped he recognized the woman he had been married to for just a month a long long time ago. She already knew whose presence she was in.
“It’s you. It’s you?” He managed to accidently speak.
“And it’s you.” She smiled with her steady gaze.
“No. NO!” Brister J35 was beginning to feel a huge wave a disappointment in his entire world…. He would not let it be true. It was true.
“You must apologize for your statement regarding the pig you shot… While Brister I8U is still alive he is the one who puts the anti-pig-peace individuals away.”
“Do you want me to lie?”
“I want you to apologize.”
“For what?”
“The public knows you shot the pig. The video with your statement declaring the pig to not be god and offering people bacon is going viral. You could protect many from a revolt. The kind of action you took today always emboldens a few who undoubtedly end up arrested and put away. Do you care about them?”
“Do you? People are hungry to hear that they don’t have to become pigs… honoring pigs is wrong I don’t care how many times you read Charlotte’s Web. I care enough to die for the idea of one righteous God and if others will die for the same idea because someone in this life emboldened them to be brave in the face of a reign like yours, more power to them. I’m glad I shot the pig. I would do it again….(as long as I didn’t know who Brister I8U was).”
“Since when have you cared about the idea of God?...While the rest of the world has made progress in moving

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