Evolution vs. Creation

Jan 6, 2011 Read more: Best of New Orleans 155,549
High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Read more

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#65037 Dec 13, 2012
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
So, not anyone else's problem, till such becomes a problem. A lot of people don't like blond haired people either. Should they all be castrated and dehumanized because of it?
No, and neither should the ones that prefer it, unless of course any of them become willfull ignorance problems, willfully hating on others, for having their OWN likes and dislikes, and of course, thier OWN opinions and beliefs.
I never said anything derogatory but I did quote facts, you don’t like facts? That’s just tough

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#65038 Dec 13, 2012
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
YOU seem to be one of those example species with a willfull ignorance problem.
I referenced what Einstien said DIRECTLY (as in from the source of, not from a chain of ignorant, grade school tin can he said she said garbage), based on DIRECT interviews and LETTERS, as spoken and written by the man himself.
Emphasis on "DIRECT", as in out of the mans mouth, and penned from his hands himself.
And it's not nice to ATTACK people, that aren't around to defend themselves especially! So in a right spirit, I shall uphold the original author and interviewer of the articles I quoted, and say, I enjoyed reading them immensely, and found them quite enlightening.
MUCH more so than from a rewritten, not even restated factually, often UNcredible source as wikistoopedia.
Back to the dunce chair for you, and tighten your tin foil caplet, it seems to be somewhat askew, and loosely hanging.
And I quoted directly from his letters, written by himself.

Not misinterpretations of his writing but actual, factual quotes, once again, if you don’t get on well with facts than tough

http://www.einsteinandreligion.com/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9583...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-04/eins...
http://uctaa.net/articles/meds2/med35/med684....

But hey if you want to make a mockery out of a clever mans life that entirely up to you to rationalise. If you want to lie for you belief and your god than I hope you sleep well on that dies of lies

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#65039 Dec 13, 2012
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
Footnote: and to say ANYthing else beyond whathas already been posted on the verbage of Eistien, would not only be "willfully ignorant" it would be utterly "abjectly" ignorant as well, because, the written words of the history of such stated, is all the evidence we have, and beyond that evidence, the truly honest with even HALF a non-dysfunctional brain, could ONLY say, "we DON'T know".
And we don't, because we Weren't there!!
End of PSA.
###
Footnote

To lie in the presence of you god and to make a mockery of a dead mans beliefs is a pathetic way to promote you belief

Einstein Wrote

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."

Einstein Wrote

"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions."

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#65040 Dec 13, 2012
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>Darwin was listening for the Mockingbird to sing and they appropriate the calls of others, now why is that?
My thought is that a camper is being annoyed by a genuine hoot owl...and God in his foreknowledge provides the mockingbird to pipe up and pretend to be a hoot owl or whatever annoying bird is out there...and the camper starts laughing and being cheered up somehow because the mockingbird is an example of a person saying 'ignore it...it's only noise...watch I can do that'. It's a message in nature of how to deal with evolutionists such aas yourself...but you can use the lesson on the annoying people in your life if you would like.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#65041 Dec 13, 2012
Does anyone know anything about Evolutionary Psychology (EP)?

Is it possible that maybe what I'm experiencing is an evolutionary thing?
newsReports

AOL

#65042 Dec 13, 2012
.

ISRAEL --- VATICAN meetings RE: MIDEAST

&fe ature=plcp

.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#65043 Dec 13, 2012
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Uh yeah sure, the correctly predicted fish-phibian fossil has been "discredited" by footprints found a mere 4-17MYA earlier tops. By footprints made by uh... another fish-phibian.
Duh.
Stop playing with yourself, Dude. Do you lot of boofheads really think your ignorance and gobble outweights the supported claims?
But it is their age that makes these tracks so special: 18 million years older than the earliest known tetrapod body fossils, and 10 million years older than the oldest elpistostegids — Tiktaalik , Panderichthys and their relatives, seen as transitional forms between fishes and tetrapods. The finds suggests that the elpistostegids that we know were late-surviving relics rather than direct transitional forms, and they highlight just how little we know of the earliest history of land vertebrates.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v463/n72...
Already addressed Maz. Get around to it any time ya like. You answer those questions yet?
Here is another evo idiot that sporookes about past famous posts that can never repost them or ask these wonderful questions ever again.

Suck it up Dude. I have to repeat myself again for every looser that drops by. Repost questions Dude child. The answer this one.
How can you tell the difference between a recently inserted erv and not? The answer is you can't.
Retroviruses insert themselves randomly. All we need is just one showing orthology. As it happens we don't just have one.
You may try something called evidence one day. Don't be a dork. If evos can hand wave away anything that does not suit, effectively your erv evidence is a raught and unfalsifiable.
Remarkably, we have found many cases of parallel intron gains at essentially the same sites in independent genotypes. This strongly argues against the common assumption that when two species share introns at the same site, it is always due to inheritance from a common ancestor.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/...
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/326/5957/12...

But although this concept of retrovirus selectivity is currently prevailing [37], practically all genomic regions were reported to be used as primary integration targets, however, with different preferences. There were identified `hot spots' containing integration sites used up to 280 times more frequently than predicted mathematically.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/...
You can't tell. We can. And we've tested it.
Quack quack. Evidence please. Make it peer reviewed seeing as you lot like to quack about it so much yet NEVER present any. Anything you provide, if you bothered, has a base of maybe and perhaps.
No they don't. It is in fact the very PREMISE of evolution, validated by genetic evidence and experiment.
Quack quack. Evidence please. Make it peer reviewed seeing as you lot like to quack about it so much yet NEVER present any. Anything you provide, if you bothered, has a base of maybe and perhaps.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#65044 Dec 13, 2012
Reply to Dudes waffle
Translation: Boo hoo, their science works!
Quack quack. Evidence please. Make it peer reviewed seeing as you lot like to quack about it so much yet NEVER present any. Anything you provide, if you bothered, has a base of maybe and perhaps.
Projection again. Got anything substantial for once Maz? Or you prefer to keep lying for Jesus?
Quack quack. Evidence please. Make it peer reviewed seeing as you lot like to quack about it so much yet NEVER present any. Anything you provide, if you bothered, has a base of maybe and perhaps.
Yes actually I do. Evos have never observed reverse transcribe in action endogenizing into any genome. It is theoretical modelling and is likely screwing up any possibility of medical advancement on genetic therapies.

It seems strange that there are NO examples of gene transduction by retrovirus into the germline of new hosts. Why is it that DNA viruses that have the theroized capacity to integrate into the host DNA not been detected in the germ line.

But most importantly there are many examples of missing ervs in mankind and those that nest gorilla with chimp to the exclusion of man. These are hand waved away on nothing more than a preconceived assumption all of it being dependent on boot strapping to an already preconcluded assumption.

Your theory that ervs MAY be the result of past retroviral infection is not substantiated in any way. Indeed you cannot tell if these functional remnants caused retorvirus, which is more likely. Evo assumptions are purely theoretical from top to bottom and is going exactly the same way all the evo gobble went around junk dna in general, falsification with more stories to follow.

Evos needed junk, refuse and vestigiallity. Creos need functionality with no refuse to support a created genome. Evos junk is being taken from their quivering hands to demonstrate that TOE has the predictive capacity of a crystal ball and rests on the psuedo science of being unfalsifiable and unstable. Evos will eventually align themselves with creationists, and invent a plethora of ridiculous myths to back peddle and will still look all scientifically retarded. Ha ha!

BTW...I see the evotards are back discussing BS philosophies again

I see Subby has disappeared after stomping his feet so much over ervs that they have ended up in his mouth.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#65045 Dec 13, 2012
Maz, do you understand that the frequency of ERV's ever attaching themselves successfully to genome is a very very rare event? You might as well try to dispute the lottery since no lottery winner has ever come from a laboratory experiment.

I believe that I can count the number of different ERV's between chimp and man with the fingers of one hand (of course I am smarter than the average bear so that number may be higher than you would first think). That makes it a very rare event since there were millions of years since the separation.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#65046 Dec 13, 2012
Maz, here is an article that describes how they know that ERV's are viruses. Not only do they look exactly like viruses, but when a ERV was separated from its genome it was able to infect the species:

"We know ERVs are actual remnants of viruses—and not just because they look exactly like viruses, although that should be evidence enough. In 2006, a team of French scientists actually revived an ERV from the human genome, which they dubbed "Phoenix." When introduced to a cluster of human cells, Phoenix was able to infect them—which would of course be impossible if Phoenix wasn't a real virus that actually infected one of our distant ancestors."

http://othersidereflections.blogspot.com/2011...

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#65047 Dec 13, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
Maz, do you understand that the frequency of ERV's ever attaching themselves successfully to genome is a very very rare event? You might as well try to dispute the lottery since no lottery winner has ever come from a laboratory experiment.
I believe that I can count the number of different ERV's between chimp and man with the fingers of one hand (of course I am smarter than the average bear so that number may be higher than you would first think). That makes it a very rare event since there were millions of years since the separation.
You may be smarter than the average bear but you are not smarter than the average human, that being me.

When you finally decide to actually address my post and the points and questions I present then you can reply to me.

For the moment this waffle, with NO research means you are a lazy quacker and will never win any point on a properly moderated one to one debate.

I can provide numerous examples of non shared and missing ervs. Why should I bother? I support each and every claim I make usually with peer reviewed researh and I have to put up with the likes of quackers like you and Dude providing nothing more than hot air that is usually outdated.

Here Dude is some support for a creationist paradigm.

Recent evaluation of the human genome sequencing data revealed that about 9% of the human genome is comprised of elements with long terminal repeats (LTRs)(LTR retrotransposons)(36, 43, 84) comprising over 200 families (30). The majority of these LTR elements, however, lack sequence similarity to retroviral genes within their internal region or constitute solitary LTRs.

Furthermore, there is evidence that transcription of at least some HERV families may be differentially regulated depending on the cell type. Characterization of promoter activities of HERV-K, HERV-H, HERV-E, ERV9, and HERV-W families, the most intensively studied HERVs, revealed specific cell type preferences for each HERV family, and even individual elements of one family showed significant variation in transcription pattern. In some cases, transcription factor binding sites that interact with cell type-specific nuclear factors could be identified, demonstrating that the expression of HERVs is regulated in a complex and diverse manner comparable to cellular genes.”

http://jvi.asm.org/cgi/content/full/79/1/341

http://jvi.asm.org/content/79/1/341.full

What Made the Same ERV Transcribe Differently Among Different Cell Types Within the Same Organism? Design explains it, not evolution.

Why are there NO Examples of an ERV that Has Been Recently "Endogenized" or Examples of ERVS that Have A Direct Exogenous Counterpart?

Because ervs are not the remnants of past retroviral infections. If they were and if so many had endogenized so much evos should be observing numerous examples now and the fact is they are not.

Above is just one line of evidence that evos are grabbing at sraws using a crytal ball and in actual fact there is no evidence that retrovirus can or do endogenize at all.

Rather the data demonstrates functionality and genomic material being positioned right where it needs to be to perform the function evolutionists spent over a decade telling us they did not have.

Hence, again, creationist claims and predictions are being validated in time whilst evolutionary claims and predictions are gradually being falsified and reinvented.

Go get a life Subby. Your point score demonstrates you actually do not have one!

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#65048 Dec 13, 2012
Your theory that ervs MAY be the result of past retroviral infection is not substantiated in any way. Indeed you cannot tell if these functional remnants caused retorvirus, which is more likely. Evo assumptions are purely theoretical from top to bottom and is going exactly the same way all the evo gobble went around junk dna in general, falsification with more stories to follow.
Umm, no. Remember the ERV that was resurrected? Most ERV's are past resurrection. They have been in the genome too long. The one that the French team found was a very recent ERV. Other ERV's that are found in the human genome only, and therefore are relatively recent already have fatal mutations so that they cannot exist as viruses on their own anymore:

http://119.93.223.179/ScienceD irect/Current%20Biology/11-19/ sdarticle_019.pdf

And it seems no one has done the particular research I suggested. That is of comparing known ERV's that were originally the same between say mice, chimps, and men. If I am right there should be a small genetic difference between man and chimp and a much larger one between either man and mouse or chimps and mouse.

Maz, you have already claimed twice that there would be no difference in ERV's.

Prepare for a moving of the goal posts.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#65049 Dec 13, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
You may be smarter than the average bear but you are not smarter than the average human, that being me.
When you finally decide to actually address my post and the points and questions I present then you can reply to me.
For the moment this waffle, with NO research means you are a lazy quacker and will never win any point on a properly moderated one to one debate.
I can provide numerous examples of non shared and missing ervs. Why should I bother? I support each and every claim I make usually with peer reviewed researh and I have to put up with the likes of quackers like you and Dude providing nothing more than hot air that is usually outdated.
Here Dude is some support for a creationist paradigm.
Recent evaluation of the human genome sequencing data revealed that about 9% of the human genome is comprised of elements with long terminal repeats (LTRs)(LTR retrotransposons)(36, 43, 84) comprising over 200 families (30). The majority of these LTR elements, however, lack sequence similarity to retroviral genes within their internal region or constitute solitary LTRs.
Furthermore, there is evidence that transcription of at least some HERV families may be differentially regulated depending on the cell type. Characterization of promoter activities of HERV-K, HERV-H, HERV-E, ERV9, and HERV-W families, the most intensively studied HERVs, revealed specific cell type preferences for each HERV family, and even individual elements of one family showed significant variation in transcription pattern. In some cases, transcription factor binding sites that interact with cell type-specific nuclear factors could be identified, demonstrating that the expression of HERVs is regulated in a complex and diverse manner comparable to cellular genes.”
http://jvi.asm.org/cgi/content/full/79/1/341
http://jvi.asm.org/content/79/1/341.full
What Made the Same ERV Transcribe Differently Among Different Cell Types Within the Same Organism? Design explains it, not evolution.
Why are there NO Examples of an ERV that Has Been Recently "Endogenized" or Examples of ERVS that Have A Direct Exogenous Counterpart?
Because ervs are not the remnants of past retroviral infections. If they were and if so many had endogenized so much evos should be observing numerous examples now and the fact is they are not.
Above is just one line of evidence that evos are grabbing at sraws using a crytal ball and in actual fact there is no evidence that retrovirus can or do endogenize at all.
Rather the data demonstrates functionality and genomic material being positioned right where it needs to be to perform the function evolutionists spent over a decade telling us they did not have.
Hence, again, creationist claims and predictions are being validated in time whilst evolutionary claims and predictions are gradually being falsified and reinvented.
Go get a life Subby. Your point score demonstrates you actually do not have one!
More noxious fumes from your blue waffle.

You greatly over estimate your own intelligence. An intelligent person would not misinterpret article after article that actually oppose what you claim. Non-shared ERV's are not an issue for the theory of evolution. Missing ones may be, depending upon how you define "missing". Knowing you and your extremely poor reading comprehension it is more likely that you saw an article that said humans are missing some of the ERV's that other apes have. Now if chimps and gorillas have these missing ERV's that is a problem, if they are held by gorillas and orangutans that is not a problem. Do you know why? Probably not.

And I don't really need research to point out the obvious. With up to hundreds of thousands of generations between ERV's being affixed in nature is it any wonder that they are never seen to fix themselves in the lab? Common sense should have explained to you why this is a nonisssue Maz.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#65050 Dec 13, 2012
I fish wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you mean to say that during the dark ages God's will was being done on earth as it was being done in heaven?
A couple caveats to that. One is that there is no heaven. two is that there is no God. Therefore there was no 'God's will' being done on earth or in heaven.

But, during the 'Dark Ages' the Universal Church was interpreting the scripture it had...to mean whatever they wanted it to mean. They killed people indiscriminately and in general terrorized the whole population of Europe and parts of Asia. Millions were killed in the name of the Christian God.

Religion, no matter what the brand, is terribly corrosive to human life.
Some Random Dude

Santa Cruz, CA

#65051 Dec 13, 2012
"Jesus Loves You". A nice thing to hear in church... A horrific thing to hear if you are in a Mexican prison.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#65052 Dec 13, 2012
Maz is of course working at a huge disadvantage whenever she posts here. She likes to back up her claims with peer reviewed articles. That's good. The problem for her is that there are no peer reviewed articles that agree with her beliefs. So the best she can do is to misread and misinterpret existing pro-evolution articles. Articles where different authors argue about how or when a particular species of family appeared is not an anti-evolution article. So even if some paleontologists believe that birds evolved earlier than Archaeopteryx that is not in any way at all support for creationism. Discussions of how ERV's react is very hard to use to defeat the idea of ERV's.

So right now I guess I am waiting for an article on "missing ERV's. Maybe next year she will get into something more substantial, but I doubt it.

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#65053 Dec 13, 2012
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
A couple caveats to that. One is that there is no heaven. two is that there is no God. Therefore there was no 'God's will' being done on earth or in heaven.
But, during the 'Dark Ages' the Universal Church was interpreting the scripture it had...to mean whatever they wanted it to mean. They killed people indiscriminately and in general terrorized the whole population of Europe and parts of Asia. Millions were killed in the name of the Christian God.
Religion, no matter what the brand, is terribly corrosive to human life.
If there's no heaven, the souls of those who have faith in the one true God and are no longer breathing or medically 'alive' are where exactly? I didn't even address the whole 'there's no god' claim. I might puke.
God created Human life. Yours too. someone has corroded you perhaps,but there is a sweet reality inside the Love of God that has nothing to do with institutions...be they government/atheist or other religions.

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#65054 Dec 13, 2012
Yawn.
For the love of drama, people read stories. For the lack of drama, people write them. Is that true? I would write about certain bold moments that don’t seem to lack drama for the sake of freedom. Who cares if it’s read. It will be words put down that may serve anyone who loves freedom. Do you think that just means being a rebel? Have you bravely said ‘no’ to oppressive leadership…? The ones that don’t hear a denial-to-submit frequently…and on hearing it will undoubtedly tell you…. YOU ARE OFFBOARD. YOU ARE EVIL. YOU NEED TO BE LESS SELFISH. You are a good reason for them to get mad. I can agree. I’ve been off-board. I’ve been evil. I could be less selfish. AND SO COULD THEY. Loving leaders is saying no to them sometimes. It might disrupt the ‘peace’…but what is peace with injustice, but a lie? Deception in any quantity causes deep hurt. The truth is leaders do not always know that they oppress. They may just do something that signifies their belief that the end justifies the means. That may involve swearing, belittling, condescending, insulting, complaining, demanding, manipulating and lying. Of course you can’t just point that out all the time. Be strong. People often don’t know they are lying, who claim they are going to conquer, but do not know that, indeed, not all the power of heaven is bestowed on them. If revolution toward any authority occurs in your life, may it not just be in your name only…But in the name of the God who cares for the oppressed. CAST ALL YOUR CARES ON HIM FOR HE CARES FOR YOU. He makes a way out from oppression. He cares for them (the OPRESSORS) it’s true…but not them only as it seems they would have you believe.

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#65055 Dec 13, 2012
Oh I know! This could be my intro to the story about how Christians are oppressed through the workplace, the educational institutions etc. When saying abortion or homosexuality is wrong is to be a criminal. Loving Jesus and declaring Him as the hope for the world is to join the ‘dark’ side in the world that loves darkness. Aren’t there enough books that portray Christians as mind-washed robots following a God from the dark ages? A people that are born of tradition and not critical thinking skills? They (Christians) are public enemy number one….because of that book they read that declares that righteousness is something…besides indulging in all the things that go against nature. People want to indulge. Christians inhibit their indulgence. How? Christians indulge!... Even sin. Some still preach repentance… repenting from sin and turning toward a God of love and mercy. That is the ultimate submission-to-authority. Human authority will many times fail to keep this on the horizon. Jesus is the High Priest and those who embrace Him as such find freedom that makes their ’superiors’ jealous. To lift up the name of Jesus Christ as Lord over all…makes the wanna-be-lords over all upset.

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#65056 Dec 13, 2012
I’ve just admitted Christians sin…and the passionate church-institution-raised atheist/diest/other reader laughs at yet another poor hypocrite…blinded by arrogant dogmas of the past…. Too weak to stand without a fairy-tale type of god. I cannot speak to this person. Only God truly can…. Yet he/she claims that God doesn’t, never will and never can (only ‘liars for Jesus’ claim to speak in His name)…any more than hell exists. Bingo! Yes it does. Ignore me with pride. Holiness is eternal. God is/has a Holy Spirit. This is the Spirit of truth, of power, of comfort. No Christian succeeds in living a life that glorifies God without help from the Holy Spirit of God. There is a battle in Christians of the spirit and the flesh. God gives grace to those who follow him in humility and faith. Do you view certain faithless Church-institution-raised disappointed souls as Pied Pipers? Intelligent to learn about their own religion seek the final height of human authority and find that those deny the word of God as supreme in acceptance of human authority and a fantastic rush of temporary power. These once hopeful folks despise religion on every level. With REASON. These followed the authority of men from the beginning thinking it was God-related. Church history reveals that authority in the name of Christ has been used to further selfish causes and bring power to men rather than souls to the kingdom. That does not, however, negate that there is good done in the name of Christ which has nothing to do with power for human authorities. The pied pipers, feeling jilted or lied to, feeling surrounded by hypocrisy will go to any length to deny the existence of God…. the goodness of God, the oneness of God, the righteousness of God etc. Choosing this faithless stance, morality and ethics become a grey area in many many ways. Rebellion against the entire word of God (out of anger) occurs. If He destroyed everyone but Noah and his immediate family…He’s really evil. If He created Hell, He’s all about watching people suffer. The bible is made up stories to control you….don’t let them succeed. Ignore ancient rules regarding ‘one man and one woman’… regarding anything. Act like a superior to the Christians who grovel before this god of hate and limit your precious liberties even referring to them as darkness. Millions of years ago people were happy until the God story got started….(Note: weak people need a fairy tale. Be it the God story or evolution in the name of science)
I want you to know when I read about the Pied Piper… I’m on his side. All about vengeance. He doesn’t seem like the bad guy…He seems smart, musical, justified and bold. He just does what he wants (takes children) because he didn’t get paid for doing his job…possibly what he didn’t want to do (taking rats)…this is the oversimplified version. But really the Pied Piper and I should talk. Someone is bolder than the Pied Pipers

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