Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#64984 Dec 12, 2012
Russell, when it comes to scientific evidence it is undeniable that there are mountains of evidence that support the theory of evolution and none that support your childish beliefs.

A fact that I am more than willing to prove, but only to people who show at least a modicum of honesty. I guess that leaves you out.
bohart

Newport, TN

#64985 Dec 12, 2012
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope. The theory of evolution does not rely on abiogenesis. It does not care if life developed naturally or if it was magically poofed into being by an invisible magical wizard. All evolution needs is for life to be here. Life IS here. Life evolves. Facts. In order to demonstrate otherwise you need to demonstrate that life is in fact NOT here. Good luck.
Or do you also reject the theory of gravity? That doesn't explain the origin of mass, but it still works.
Do you also reject the germ theory of disease? That doesn't explain the origin of germs, but it still works.
Likewise evolution.
Ha! the liar Dude strikes again, equating the theory of evolution with gravity! Yet he has said he doesn't do that, mother fockin liar that he is he may not recognize that he does it, the dementia of puddle gooism may have sapped whatever low wattage impulses emit from his brain

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#64986 Dec 12, 2012
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
The papers you are referring to, published in Nature on 28 March 2002—one from a combined NASA/SETI institute study and another from Europe, enthusiastically proclaimed ‘Seeds of life are everywhere’ and ‘Scientists create life’s building blocks’.
These resulted from two studies where scientists formed amino acids, the building blocks of proteins, by zapping impure ice, supposedly matching interstellar compositions, with ultraviolet radiation.
This ice contained a fairly high amount of ammonia (NH3), methanol (CH3OH) and hydrogen cyanide (HCN).
As per the European authors:
‘How life originated is one of the earliest and most intriguing questions for humanity. Early experiments on the processing of a gas mixture simulating the primitive Earth conditions assumed a reducing atmosphere with CH4[methane] as the carbon-containing molecule.
Several amino acids were formed under these conditions as the products of spark discharge, photoprocessing or heat. It is now believed, however, that the Earth’s early atmosphere was rather non-reducing, with CO2 as the main carbon carrier. Processing of these alternative gas mixtures under experimental conditions leads to the formation of, at most, traces of amino acids'
Another Urey-Miller...
Big deal!
Crick and Hoyle introduced the idea of pan spermia
Since life "evolving" on earth is such a non-starter...
Back to the drawing board, Kong
Ni hao
"Panspermia", at least on the amino-acid level, is still a perfectly reasonable notion. We await further data.

Dew neh loh moh.

“There is no such thing”

Level 3

Since: May 08

as a reasonable person

#64987 Dec 12, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting article, I’ve looked at stuff like it before, it seems that bacterial life forms are the reason the Ria Tinto is so acidic by creating their preferred environment.. And only today scientist in the Antarctic have started drilling to access a lake 2km under the ice to see if there is life there
Did you notice the :-
“68 percent of those that were shielded from the radiation survived”
and
“Unlike most arthropods, however, the hardy species of tardigrades likely evolved to survive in especially volatile environments”
in that article?
Either way the possibilities are fascinating.
bohart

Newport, TN

#64988 Dec 12, 2012
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬ <quoted text>
You, SubDud are the only PROVEN liar here!
Even Dawkins admits that the Miller experiment led to a dead end..
Got a trillion years?
Firstly, primordial soup experiments are run with pure materials under carefully controlled conditions, with purification steps of the desired products after every step, adjusted pH , temp etc, to maximum advantage, UV light applied at the right time to destroy the biologically problematic side products without damaging the desired material….
In other words HEAPS of investigator interference….
Secondly, enzyme expert Wolfenden showed in 1998 that a reaction absolutely essential in creating the building blocks of DNA and RNA would take 78 million years in water, but was speeded up 10 to the power 18 times by an enzyme:
This is orotidine 5-prime-monophostate decarboxtlase, responsible for de novo synthesis of uridine 5-prime-phosphate, an essential precursor of RNA and DNA, by carboxylating orotidine 5 prime-monophosphate (OMP) as everyone now knows.
In 2003 Wolfenden found another enzyme that exceeded even this VAST rate enhancement. A PHOSPHOTASE, which catalyses the hydrolysis of phosphate bonds, magnified the reaction rate by a thousand times more than the previous enzyme-&#61664; 10 to the power of 21 times.
Phosphotase allows reactions vital for cell signalling and regulation to take place in a hundredth of a second
WITHOUT PHOSPHATASE THESE ESSENTIAL REACTIONS WOULD TAKE a trillion years
That is a hundred times even the supposed evolutionary age of the Universe.
Cited in Lang L H, Without enzyme catalyst slowest known biological reaction takes 1 trillion years, Biocompare Life Science News, news.biocompare.com , 2003
Good luck my friend conquering the faith of this puddle gooist, he believes in a lie, knows it's a lie, science can't support his lie yet he trudges onward with the faith of the centurion.
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#64989 Dec 12, 2012
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Good luck my friend conquering the faith of this puddle gooist, he believes in a lie, knows it's a lie, science can't support his lie yet he trudges onward with the faith of the centurion.
Yes indeed
Puts my MEGA Christian faith to shame

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#64990 Dec 12, 2012
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Good luck my friend conquering the faith of this puddle gooist, he believes in a lie, knows it's a lie, science can't support his lie yet he trudges onward with the faith of the centurion.
Oh bohart, you know everything you just wrote applies to only you.

My beliefs are not faith based and I can show it. Yours are based upon a fairy tale. A story you should have been questioning starting at the age of 12 or earlier.

Too bad you and Russell never made the cut for college. You could have learned quite a bit there.

You and Russell are two peas in a pod. Both sorely undereducated. Both of you think that you have faith in your fairy tales, but deep down both of you know that they are false.

I notice that neither of you cowards will openly state your beliefs. You will only say what you don't believe in.

That is the cowards way out. Your fear shows that you know your personal beliefs could be debunked and you are both afraid of that.

I have the answer to your fear. Knowledge brings freedom from fear. Fear is almost always based upon ignorance.

“I be me, and you are...”

Level 6

Since: Dec 06

in a city...

#64991 Dec 12, 2012
We were created to evolve...so that we could then create new life to then take charge of the living...:)

Amen and Bless God !!!

“I be me, and you are...”

Level 6

Since: Dec 06

in a city...

#64992 Dec 12, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh bohart, you know everything you just wrote applies to only you.
My beliefs are not faith based and I can show it. Yours are based upon a fairy tale. A story you should have been questioning starting at the age of 12 or earlier.
Too bad you and Russell never made the cut for college. You could have learned quite a bit there.
You and Russell are two peas in a pod. Both sorely undereducated. Both of you think that you have faith in your fairy tales, but deep down both of you know that they are false.
I notice that neither of you cowards will openly state your beliefs. You will only say what you don't believe in.
That is the cowards way out. Your fear shows that you know your personal beliefs could be debunked and you are both afraid of that.
I have the answer to your fear. Knowledge brings freedom from fear. Fear is almost always based upon ignorance.
Wever ignorance knows mostly no fear for a know how can bring some of it not that fear is a real for itself is the most scariest in what can hold someone from moving on...

Give me a Fairy over above God any day and a little girl would say that and to tell a tale well, I can tell you what I would not let my little one listen to just some Preacher...and what all gets bred in Hell...my oh my...

So College where does it have brought you to TOPIX LOL same place it brought me too...

Oh just jumped into the conversation I know a Russell so I thought it was alright...

“I be me, and you are...”

Level 6

Since: Dec 06

in a city...

#64993 Dec 12, 2012
It's just all so Evolutionary and mysterious...... Misty is a character( misteriously may become the way to be) Elf like never to late and never too early... :)
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#64994 Dec 12, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh bohart, you know everything you just wrote applies to only you.
My beliefs are not faith based and I can show it. Yours are based upon a fairy tale. A story you should have been questioning starting at the age of 12 or earlier.
Too bad you and Russell never made the cut for college. You could have learned quite a bit there.
You and Russell are two peas in a pod. Both sorely undereducated. Both of you think that you have faith in your fairy tales, but deep down both of you know that they are false.
I notice that neither of you cowards will openly state your beliefs. You will only say what you don't believe in.
That is the cowards way out. Your fear shows that you know your personal beliefs could be debunked and you are both afraid of that.
I have the answer to your fear. Knowledge brings freedom from fear. Fear is almost always based upon ignorance.
"Education" is highly over-rated
I am quite happy as I am
AND I have tons of friends
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#64995 Dec 12, 2012
Tinka wrote:
<quoted text>
Wever ignorance knows mostly no fear for a know how can bring some of it not that fear is a real for itself is the most scariest in what can hold someone from moving on...
Give me a Fairy over above God any day and a little girl would say that and to tell a tale well, I can tell you what I would not let my little one listen to just some Preacher...and what all gets bred in Hell...my oh my...
So College where does it have brought you to TOPIX LOL same place it brought me too...
Oh just jumped into the conversation I know a Russell so I thought it was alright...
Can we please go back to the Creation/evolution forum?

This one has way too many wet lettuces...

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TMH...

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#64996 Dec 13, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
"Haldane's Dilemma" is a creationist falsehood. It is a result of creationists mischaracterizing how evolution occurs. Yes, those limited, number "mutations per generation" could be a problem, if there were only two individuals involved per generation. Luckily for us populations evolve and not individuals. In other words in a population of one million there would only have to be roughly one positive mutation per ten thousandth of a generation. Considering that there are over 100 mutations per generation Haldane's limit is clearly not a limit at all.
And your failure to see how the TOE can and does make predictions is not the theories fault, that is clearly your fault. How do you think that they found Tiktaalik? It was done using the predictive power of the TOE along with a knowledge of geology. Other people who have specialties in other areas could surely show how once again you are wrong in their fields.
Lastly, just because you can write up to 4,000 characters does not mean you need to. Most points can be made in a much shorter space.
Tiktaalik has been discredited by a variety of tetrapod footprints dated to 400mya.

You want to talk ervs..just look at you!

You just love to gobble on. You wanted to talk about ervs and have not responded with one word about the topic at hand that you demanded and stomped your foot over, saying that I was evading you.

My algorithmic magic is as good as your algorithmic magic, re Haldane's dilemma which was an aside, because you lot can't decide what the mutation rate is for anything let alone predict the mutation rate of extinct species and population size.

Now get to it or are you running away.

Exactly what scientific basis do evolutionists use to determine if a so called erv is ancestral or independently inserted?

The answer is your own philosophical asumptions of common ancestry. The ervs that do not align are automatically determined to be inserted after separation and the ones that pop up where they shouldn't be are hand waved away as a matter of convergent evolution.

There are numerous ervs that are not shared between chimps and humans and the only thing that makes them recent is the fact that they 'need' to be 'recent' according to TOE.

http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/1...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1...

As for the huge unlikelihood that some erv would be in the 'same' loci, more and more is it being discovered that ervs are loci site specific, that is IF they are ERV's at all.

When functional in any way, that more demonstrates that this genomic material is where it needs to be. It was better for evos when ervs and non coding dna was 'junk'. Now this material is simply where it has to be to perform its' function.

Now evos have to invent stories, they cannot possibly know, as to how a sequence of viral like material sought the exact location it needs to be in to perform the function it performs and did so almost immediately upon insertion. eg mammalian pregnancy.

Evos have gone from ervs and junk dna being functionless and they explained that. Now they will invent more stories to show how dead viral elements became functional and sometimes vitally so, turning all life into a mutated virus. Well done!

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#64997 Dec 13, 2012
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Can we please go back to the Creation/evolution forum?
This one has way too many wet lettuces...
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TMH...
Evos are full of wet lettuces. They stay as far away from science as they can. Lettuces is a good subject for them. It was hard enough getting this Subby to offer a post worth replying to.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#64998 Dec 13, 2012
MazHere wrote:
Tiktaalik has been discredited by a variety of tetrapod footprints dated to 400mya.
Uh yeah sure, the correctly predicted fish-phibian fossil has been "discredited" by footprints found a mere 4-17MYA earlier tops. By footprints made by uh... another fish-phibian.

Duh.
MazHere wrote:
You want to talk ervs..just look at you!
You just love to gobble on. You wanted to talk about ervs and have not responded with one word about the topic at hand that you demanded and stomped your foot over, saying that I was evading you.
My algorithmic magic is as good as your algorithmic magic, re Haldane's dilemma which was an aside, because you lot can't decide what the mutation rate is for anything let alone predict the mutation rate of extinct species and population size.
Now get to it or are you running away.
Exactly what scientific basis do evolutionists use to determine if a so called erv is ancestral or independently inserted?
The answer is your own philosophical asumptions of common ancestry. The ervs that do not align are automatically determined to be inserted after separation and the ones that pop up where they shouldn't be are hand waved away as a matter of convergent evolution.
There are numerous ervs that are not shared between chimps and humans and the only thing that makes them recent is the fact that they 'need' to be 'recent' according to TOE.
http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/1...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1...
Already addressed Maz. Get around to it any time ya like. You answer those questions yet?
MazHere wrote:
As for the huge unlikelihood that some erv would be in the 'same' loci, more and more is it being discovered that ervs are loci site specific
Retroviruses insert themselves randomly. All we need is just one showing orthology. As it happens we don't just have one.
MazHere wrote:
that is IF they are ERV's at all.
Exactly. You can't tell. We can. And we've tested it.
MazHere wrote:
When functional in any way, that more demonstrates that this genomic material is where it needs to be. It was better for evos when ervs and non coding dna was 'junk'. Now this material is simply where it has to be to perform its' function.
Now evos have to invent stories, they cannot possibly know, as to how a sequence of viral like material sought the exact location it needs to be in to perform the function it performs and did so almost immediately upon insertion. eg mammalian pregnancy.
No they don't. It is in fact the very PREMISE of evolution, validated by genetic evidence and experiment.
MazHere wrote:
Evos have gone from ervs and junk dna being functionless and they explained that. Now they will invent more stories to show how dead viral elements became functional and sometimes vitally so, turning all life into a mutated virus. Well done!
Translation: Boo hoo, their science works!
MazHere wrote:
Evos are full of wet lettuces. They stay as far away from science as they can. Lettuces is a good subject for them. It was hard enough getting this Subby to offer a post worth replying to.
Projection again. Got anything substantial for once Maz? Or you prefer to keep lying for Jesus?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#64999 Dec 13, 2012
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Ha! the liar Dude strikes again, equating the theory of evolution with gravity! Yet he has said he doesn't do that, mother fockin liar that he is he may not recognize that he does it, the dementia of puddle gooism may have sapped whatever low wattage impulses emit from his brain
No, you keep conflating evolution with abiogenesis. Your ignorance is NOT our problem.

And why are you, a known and confirmed liar accusing other people of lying?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#65000 Dec 13, 2012
Russell wrote:
Crick and Hoyle introduced the idea of pan spermia
Since life "evolving" on earth is such a non-starter...
Funny, I don't remember you proving there was no life on Earth.

Life = evolution. Unlucky Russ.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#65001 Dec 13, 2012
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Good luck my friend conquering the faith of this puddle gooist, he believes in a lie, knows it's a lie, science can't support his lie yet he trudges onward with the faith of the centurion.
Bub, we've demonstrated and supported evolution. All you do is make lame puddle goo jokes. And ignore it when your pals get caught blatantly lying for Jesus and ignoring the 9th Commandment.

Remember, God is watching...
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#65002 Dec 13, 2012
go rilla wrote:
<quoted text>
Where are all the intermediate species between not only man and ape but everything else. evolution lacks evidence period.
Page 885. Try again.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#65003 Dec 13, 2012
Makesure100 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hark Angels..........we have ignorance abounding.
Not your fault. You were brought up to be ignorant.

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