Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#64601 Dec 11, 2012
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Simple. They're not at the same latitude. But then I don't recall evolution claiming everything at the same latitude should have all the same traits.
I do recall successfully predicting your flawed method of argumentation though.
They're almost in the same latitude. How about Chinese and Indians or Russians? You know how close Tibet is to India and Pakistan. Why are their physical attributes so different from each other? What is in the environment that caused these differences?

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#64602 Dec 11, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Crazy talk!
Have you seen any one living forever? none.
Have you? No, then why are you making stupid statement about comic characters?
Let me pass you the link to you very own post
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#64603 Dec 11, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
They're almost in the same latitude. How about Chinese and Indians or Russians? You know how close Tibet is to India and Pakistan. Why are their physical attributes so different from each other? What is in the environment that caused these differences?
Mountains – ever heard of them?

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#64604 Dec 11, 2012
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
AMEN!!
(and now to not so warp speed, ah have given my chauffer, the monkey-the day off, while ah quest for some gray poupon )
Sane people-have a good day-the not so sane and rather distasteful, parasiTic types--they make speshull professionals for people like yew lol.
Again, when laughing, a quick look at the mirror will do you some good. Ugly!

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#64605 Dec 11, 2012
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
Tain't seen no immortals! What say you? You have majikal ayes?
Yee-haw!!
More or less like Tom, in the MGM cartoon series of Tom and Jerry. Lol

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#64606 Dec 11, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Mountains – ever heard of them?
LOL! You do know there are myriads of mountains everywhere right? BTW, they built that Great Wall of China. LMAO!

Keep guessing though.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#64607 Dec 11, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Well that explains why you know so little about the babble, there is a lot more to it than 3 verses
Exodus 20 vs 1 to 18, for more.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#64608 Dec 11, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Genesis 20 vs 1 to 3.
Not even Genesis but Exodus 200 vs 1 to 3 or take it further to verse 18.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#64610 Dec 11, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you? No, then why are you making stupid statement about comic characters?
Let me pass you the link to you very own post
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...
God is God. You can not change that with your polluted statement.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#64611 Dec 11, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Not even Genesis but Exodus 200 vs 1 to 3 or take it further to verse 18.
Not 200 but 20.

Since: Nov 12

Milk River, Canada

#64612 Dec 11, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
It is estimated that even today, after 4.5 billion years of “hoovering” 14 million tons of dust, around 180,000 tons of meteors and between 10 and 20 thousand tones of meteorites fall on earth every year. A percentage of this debris (from stone debris) is organic.
But virtually all this space debris is left over from the creation of our solar system. And it seems to me that while life could have arisen and survived from the early disc around our sun that became the planets, it's less likely than it having arisen in the conditions that so well support all the life we have on our planet now.

Since: Nov 12

Milk River, Canada

#64613 Dec 11, 2012
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
What about possible ET's in black holes? After all...it is theoretically possible that earth "evolved" out of such?
Just a side note, but it's not "theoretically" possible for ET's to climb out of black holes -- if black hole theory is any good.

Since: Nov 12

Milk River, Canada

#64614 Dec 11, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Your opinion.
God exist and the bible is the written words of God.
I guess then truth is just what whoever says it loudest and longest...

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#64615 Dec 11, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
Bad link Maz.
Please, you are the only one who waffles here. You don't want me to post a link to your waffle, trust me.
Genetics is not my specialty by any means. So I am at a bit of a disadvantage here. Of course it is not your specialty either and you have made many obvious mistakes and they have been pointed out to you.
As I said, not only does the entire genome have to be functional for the creationists to have even half of a leg to stand on, it has to be functional in a way consistent with creationism. Geneticists have already shown that chickens have ancestral genes, and these would have been among the "junk DNA" for teeth, claws on their wings (think Archaeopteryx) scales and dinosaur type tails (think Archy, again). That right there is a killer for creation.
Back to the topic of ERV's. ERV's mirror the nested hierarchy found in nature. Creationists not only have to show that ERV's are functional, since there is nothing that says the genetic code cannot co-opt ERV's in fact it has in spots, they have to show why they are in the exact same place in all of the species that share the same ERV's. A rather tall order too.
And that is just genetics. Creationism is shot down in just about every branch of science that there is. That is why unless you can come up with a scientific explanation for why things are the way we observe them using a creationist paradigm your idea is toast.
You are the one that wants to talk ervs. So far it appears that TOE's predictions and gobble around junk dna are the ones being shot down so far. You do not get to make my benchmarks any more than I get to determine yours. Evos are the ones looking like fools at present.

The fact of my point one is that creationist predictions and claims around junk DNA are being validated at the same time as evolutionists initial claims around junk dna are being falsified. Creos have the upper hand regardless of how proud evos are and how much they struggle. Evos cannot make solid predictions.

If I remember correctly, first you waffled on about the integrity of an article until I published the research, then waffled on about requiring some peer reviewed standard crap maintaining creos claims, and I gave you a letter from a creo published in Nature, then you wanted to divert to ervs, then you showed your stupid by suggesting creos and evos should make claims before the discovery of the junk to make claims about and now you are just looking plain stupid and desperate.

You have struggled and failed.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#64616 Dec 11, 2012
I predict ervs will be found to have function. This is based on the philosophical assertion that if the genome was designed God has no need to make useless dna. I assert that ERVs are not remnants of ancient viral infections but are functional genetic elements that are a part of a designed genome.

This genomic material evos refer to as ERVs appears to be part of other regulatory networks in organisms that are involved in an organisms well being.

What Made ERV LTRS Immediately Turn into Essential Gene Regulators Upon Insertion?

•“We also present evidence that the functional TF binding sites of the human b3GAL-T5 LTR promoter were present in the original consensus sequence for this class of LTRs. Upon similar analysis of other ERV sequences, we have concluded that this evolutionary history is shared by certain other LTR gene promoters, and may be a general phenomenon.”

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/...

The above demonstrates the stupidity and desperation of TOE that appears to be suggesting that a viral remnant organized itself into a complex gene regulator upon insertion.

WHAT ARE TOE'S PREDICTIONS AROUND JUNK DNA? Let's first establish IF TOE made any predictions around ervs. IF NOT THEN TOE IS PROVEN TO BE A KNEE JERK PSUEDO SCIENCE WITH NO PREDICTIVE VALUE.

After you give me TOE's prediction, let's talk about this below and what evolutionists class as 'the same' erv and why a functional piece of genomic material may be just where it needs to be to perform its function, rather than where it died as 'junk', which has nothing to do with ancestry. We can also talk about the fact that evos have never observed the endogenization of a retrovirus and the entire concept is purely theoretical.

Lineage-Specific Expansions of Retroviral Insertions within the Genomes of African Great Apes but Not Humans and Orangutans
We unambiguously map 287 retroviral integration sites and determine that approximately 95.8% of the insertions occur at non-orthologous regions between closely related species. Phylogenetic analysis of the endogenous retrovirus reveals that the gorilla and chimpanzee elements share a monophyletic origin with a subset of the Old World monkey retroviral elements, but that the average sequence divergence exceeds neutral expectation for a strictly nuclear inherited DNA molecule. Within the chimpanzee, there is a significant integration bias against genes, with only 14 of these insertions mapping within intronic regions. Six out of ten of these genes, for which there are expression data, show significant differences in transcript expression between human and chimpanzee. Our data are consistent with a retroviral infection that bombarded the genomes of chimpanzees and gorillas independently and concurrently, 3–4 million years ago. We speculate on the potential impact of such recent events on the evolution of humans and great apes.

Endogenous retroviruses may arise within genomes by at least two different mechanisms: retrotransposition from a pre-existing endogenous retrovirus (intraspecific transmission) or infection and integration via an exogenous source virus (horizontal transmission). Many cross-species transmissions have been documented and frequently manifest themselves as inconsistencies in the presumed phylogeny of closely related species.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1...

Exactly what scientific basis do evolutionists use to determine if a so called erv is ancestral or independently inserted?

Since: Nov 12

Milk River, Canada

#64618 Dec 11, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> I am glad you know that death is inevitable.
No matter how powerful you are, you must die.
Hey, don't relish it so much on me..:=)

My best wishes to you. May you, like the little animicule, the Hydra, live forever.( See, I got that turn the other cheek thing ingrained in me when I was little.)

Since: Nov 12

Milk River, Canada

#64619 Dec 11, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> The different sects of Christianity does not change who God really is.
God is still God.
And they can't change who God isn't either.

Not being able to prove something one way or the other is still not being able to prove something one way or the other.

Of course none of that nonsense prevents me from hoping you are right.

Since: Nov 12

Milk River, Canada

#64620 Dec 11, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> And yet Science is still not the ultimate. A lot of questions yet un-answered.
And after almost 2 to the seventeenth power postings on this thread, we don't seem a lot closer to answering even one more important question for certain. Funny thing, it seems to me that the "God is God" logical identity axiom redux doesn't even try to answer a question.

Anyway, once science answers all the questions I'll know it isn't science any more.

Since: Nov 12

Milk River, Canada

#64621 Dec 11, 2012
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Until a valid hypothesis is presented I pay little attention to such whimsical and meaningless philosophical ideas. I prefer being stuck in the Matrix anyway. Cuz bullet-time was cooooool.
Actually, that we are inside a black hole is virtually certain. It's way beyond a mere guess.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#64622 Dec 11, 2012
Maz, you are making a prediction not upon observation and experimentation, but upon a fairy tale. That is not science. You believe in this fairy tale so weakly that you will not even clearly state what parts of it you believe. All you will clearly say is that you are against evolution. This makes your prediction not science based and hypocritical.

And once again you link articles that you clearly don't understand. As I said, just finding that "junk DNA" or even ERV's are functional is not good enough to give creationism a pass on this particular fail of their busted world view. They have to show that the function fits a creation paradigm and not an evolutionary one.

My prediction is that as we understand more about how the genome works it will work according to an evolutionary paradigm. And you still have no explanation for ancestral genes.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Weird Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
did tally have a stroke 15 min LOST IN MISSISSIPPI 32
What song are you listening to right now? (Apr '08) 18 min Tom2Tone 155,547
What are you thinking about now? (Jun '10) 19 min -Lea- 28,832
El's Kitchen (Feb '09) 25 min LOST IN MISSISSIPPI 38,609
Change-one-of-six-letters (Dec '12) 26 min Doug77 4,425
Change 1 letter game! (Nov '11) 30 min Doug77 3,394
CHANGE One letter CHANCE (Sep '08) 32 min Truths 30,505
Are You a MEAN Person ? 32 min Crazy Beautiful 92
Lets Discuss Men (Dec '13) 2 hr Chilli J 877
More from around the web