Evolution vs. Creation

There are 20 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#64286 Dec 10, 2012
We are not moving on from this Subby untill the general discussion around junk dna is finalized.

That is because I intend on having it out all over again on every one of the 6 points I have made. I am not having you crap all over the place with BS and then say some mythical post of yours dealt with the matter. We are now stuck at number 1, which I have supported and you have evaded.

If I remember correctly, first you waffled on about the integrity of an article until I published the research, then waffled on about requiring some peer reviewed standard crap maintaining creos claims, and I gave you a letter from a creo published in Nature, then you wanted to divert to ervs, then you showed your stupid by suggesting creos and evos should make claims before the discovery of the junk to make claims about and now you are just looking plain stupid and desperate.

While you are looking for the guts to admit defeat at refuting my point 1, and after many of your posts I still can't see what the heck you are trying to say or do, other than the usual face saving evasion evos are actually good at.

Here is the warm up for the erv challenge.

I predict ervs will be found to have function. This is based on the philosophical assertion that if the genome was designed God has no need to make useless dna. I assert that ERVs are not remnants of ancient viral infections but are functional genetic elements that are a part of a designed genome.

This genomic material evos refer to as ERVs appears to be part of other regulatory networks in organisms that are involved in an organisms well being.

What Made ERV LTRS Immediately Turn into Essential Gene Regulators Upon Insertion?

•“We also present evidence that the functional TF binding sites of the human b3GAL-T5 LTR promoter were present in the original consensus sequence for this class of LTRs. Upon similar analysis of other ERV sequences, we have concluded that this evolutionary history is shared by certain other LTR gene promoters, and may be a general phenomenon.”
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science... -
4GXVG6Y-1&_user=10&_rd oc=1&fmt=&_orig=search &_sort=d&view=
c&_acct=C000050221&_ve rsion=1&_urlVersion=0& _userid=10&md5=
19c2ea074bec5e7313b36ce1630e38 a8

Now when, and if ever, you decide to 'man up' a little, we will move on to the ERV myth.

“I Am No One To Be Trifled With”

Level 7

Since: Jun 09

Dread Pirate Roberts

#64287 Dec 10, 2012
Big Bang Evidence for God
— By Frank Turek {PART 2}

I mentioned in the debate that other scientists who made Big-Bang-related discoveries also conclude that the evidence is consistent with the Biblical account. Robert Wilson—co-discoverer of the Radiation Afterglow, which won him a Noble Prize in Physics—observed,“Certainly there was something that set it off. Certainly, if you’re religious, I can’t think of a better theory of the origin of the universe to match with Genesis.” George Smoot—co-discoverer of the Great Galaxy Seeds which won him a Nobel Prize as well—echoed Wilson’s assessment by saying,“There is no doubt that a parallel exists between the Big Bang as an event and the Christian notion of creation from nothing.”

How did Hitchens respond to this evidence? Predictably, he said that I was “speculating”—that no one can get behind the Big Bang event. I say “predictably” because that’s exactly the response Dr.Jastrow said is common for atheists who have their own religion—the religion of science. Jastrow wrote,“There is a kind of religion in science ... every effect must have its cause; there is no First Cause.... This religious faith of the scientist is violated by the discovery that the world had a beginning under conditions in which the known laws of physics are not valid, and as a product of forces or circumstances we cannot discover. When that happens, the scientist has lost control. If he really examined the implications, he would be traumatized. As usual when faced with trauma, the mind reacts by ignoring the implications—in science this is known as ‘refusing to speculate.’”

Hitchens admits the evidence but ignores its implications in order to blindly maintain his own religious faith (watch the entire debate at CrossExamined.org ). How is it speculation to say that since all space,time, and matter were created that the cause must be spaceless, timeless and immaterial? That’s not speculation, but following the evidence where it leads.

Dr. Jastrow, despite his agnosticism, told us where the evidence leads. He ended his book this way:“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”

http://www.crossexamined.org/articles-detail.... Bang Evidence for God

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#64288 Dec 10, 2012
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>Is anyone interested in reality? I'm just telling it as I see it!
So when do you start talking about reality?
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

#64289 Dec 10, 2012
Drew Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
Radiometric dating.
This does not tell us of the deriviation of the first stage of rocks or if they originated with suddenness or not.

“I Am No One To Be Trifled With”

Level 7

Since: Jun 09

Dread Pirate Roberts

#64290 Dec 10, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
So when do you start talking about reality?
http://www.marcofolio.net/images/stories/fun/...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ckBlasgNSzg/SueOGY4...

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#64291 Dec 10, 2012
Knightmare wrote:
Hey now, where'd you get that photograph of me?

“I Am No One To Be Trifled With”

Level 7

Since: Jun 09

Dread Pirate Roberts

#64292 Dec 10, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey now, where'd you get that photograph of me?
LOL!

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#64293 Dec 10, 2012
Bad link Maz.

Please, you are the only one who waffles here. You don't want me to post a link to your waffle, trust me.

Genetics is not my specialty by any means. So I am at a bit of a disadvantage here. Of course it is not your specialty either and you have made many obvious mistakes and they have been pointed out to you.

As I said, not only does the entire genome have to be functional for the creationists to have even half of a leg to stand on, it has to be functional in a way consistent with creationism. Geneticists have already shown that chickens have ancestral genes, and these would have been among the "junk DNA" for teeth, claws on their wings (think Archaeopteryx) scales and dinosaur type tails (think Archy, again). That right there is a killer for creation.

Back to the topic of ERV's. ERV's mirror the nested hierarchy found in nature. Creationists not only have to show that ERV's are functional, since there is nothing that says the genetic code cannot co-opt ERV's in fact it has in spots, they have to show why they are in the exact same place in all of the species that share the same ERV's. A rather tall order too.

And that is just genetics. Creationism is shot down in just about every branch of science that there is. That is why unless you can come up with a scientific explanation for why things are the way we observe them using a creationist paradigm your idea is toast.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#64294 Dec 10, 2012
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
A Hint--the Bible is just ONE book, containing many chapters of the " world civ as some saw it". NOT a telebision series with before and after sequels.
That's why we have SCIENCE.
You are not making any sense. What I quoted is from a religious website owned by a scientist who is the director of the NIH and past director of the human genome project.

What is the 'world civ'??
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#64295 Dec 10, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Are you from Jamaica?
Hey now :-)

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#64296 Dec 10, 2012
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
Just pointing out some of the errors of your LACK of thought process.
And you do this by quoting someone else and tying it to me??

Perhaps you need to take a nap...or take your medicine.

You're not making any sense.
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#64297 Dec 10, 2012
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>This thread is concerning creation and I believe the Creator is the God of the Bible.
"According to whom"?
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#64298 Dec 10, 2012
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
And you do this by quoting someone else and tying it to me??
Perhaps you need to take a nap...or take your medicine.
You're not making any sense.
Are you talking to yourself?

Sounds like it.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#64299 Dec 10, 2012
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
and the error of the ignorance of your OWN denial.
The OT is FULL of the wretchedness of sinners!!
Course-a LOT of people already KNOW that.
You are not really making any sense here.

The Old Testament is demonstrated to be just a bunch of myths and allegory...not real in any sense. And just think how many people have fallen for it.
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#64300 Dec 10, 2012
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
You are not making any sense. What I quoted is from a religious website owned by a scientist who is the director of the NIH and past director of the human genome project.
What is the 'world civ'??
"World Civilization" as scribed by more than one.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#64301 Dec 10, 2012
Knightmare wrote:
Big Bang Evidence for God
— By Frank Turek {PART 1}
..Nonsense deleted..
Knighty, you tipped your hand too early. The video you linked first proved that either Turek is an idiot or a liar. Why would we pay any attention to anything else that he had his hand in?
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#64302 Dec 10, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
Maz, only creatards mistakenly categorized ERV's as "junk DNA". They were recognized before we knew about coding and non-coding DNA. "Junk DNA" is very similar to the term "UFO". You wouldn't say "look at that 747, it's a UFO" nor would identified parts of the genome be called junk DNA. And ancestral genes are not junk DNA either. So that would be among the 80%. How are you going to deal with that?
Actually haplotypes are cropping up more and more these days, in the studies of variables that sometimes can foster GOOD evolutionary changes, according to environmental aspects that may require the need for such.

"Junk DNA" tsk--tacky, tacky sounding.
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#64303 Dec 10, 2012
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
You are not really making any sense here.
The Old Testament is demonstrated to be just a bunch of myths and allegory...not real in any sense. And just think how many people have fallen for it.
As many BOOKS of of histroical antiquities have shown, wiht out a doubt.

No need to preach here--I've been in the "choirs" for a quite some time myself, quite contentedly, and prefer to keep such personal realms to myself.

But DNA and Science--whole OTHER game. Love to yap about the stuff--love it!!
reality

Germantown, OH

#64304 Dec 10, 2012
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>Is anyone interested in reality? I'm just telling it as I see it!
There you have it, folks! A creationist admits to the world he randomly proselyetizes about "the Creator" to people everywhere, whether they care to hear about it or not. Wow, what a jerk!

“Don't be mad at me.”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

I'm just a little bunny.

#64305 Dec 10, 2012
Just wanted to let Maz Here know that when I got up this morning and checked, the theory of evolution still stood. All of biology is still holding up.

Keep clicking your heels together and muttering "there is no place like ignorance. there is no place like ignorance" Maz. Maybe the real world will finally go away for you.

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