Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Read more

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#64061 Dec 8, 2012
Hmm, since Maz's quotes mean whatever she wants them to mean why does she even bother to quote scientific sites.

She might as well as use this one:

http://www.stampor.com/

Or this one:

http://www.technotronic.com/

Tada!!! Evolution debunked!

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#64062 Dec 8, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
They will support whatever I want them to support just like you do. Mega flooding is better than no evidence from your own at all. Lying am I? Are you a child?
Torrential rain for 40 days is going to make it pretty wet everywhere and again you are talking about a deity you know nothing about and can only quack about that just might be able to do something your litle mind does not understand.
You stay with your philosophy because you are no good at science.
"Pretty wet" is not even close to "flooding every mountain in the world." Pretty wet is just pretty wet. There are places that rain for 80 days at a time, Seattle is one.

Since: Sep 12

Fort Worth, TX

#64063 Dec 8, 2012
MADRONE wrote:
<quoted text>You seem pretty touchy about your silly beliefs.
You just seem silly about my touchy beliefs......lol

Since: Sep 12

Fort Worth, TX

#64064 Dec 8, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>That is why objective scientific research is so important today, and why people who try to slow it's progress are harming the species. But I also suspect that's why they want to slow it, because scientific data holds up mirrors that can show us everything about ourselves, every little detail. As a species, we have not proven to be the most intelligent at all on this planet. One day I hope we do, but we need something new to try because religious nonsense has obviously not been working.
I am all about scientific discoveries I just also happen to think that God wanted man to find what they have found. I would even be willing to bet God is proud of man when we make break throughs like space travel and such. I think science will find how "God dun it" just don't be blind to the idea of the occasional miracle.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#64065 Dec 8, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
I am all about scientific discoveries I just also happen to think that God wanted man to find what they have found. I would even be willing to bet God is proud of man when we make break throughs like space travel and such. I think science will find how "God dun it" just don't be blind to the idea of the occasional miracle.
when you are too busy looking for miracles, you will see them in inane things, and then you will miss the important discoveries and experiences. There is a reason we treat delusions and don't just let them fester now.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#64066 Dec 8, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
Again, if you want to use a source that disagrees with you, you need to show how it is wrong and how your conclusion is correct.
Your last one disagrees with your conclusion. Therefore you have misinterpreted it. There conclusion is that their data supports a specific model of evolution, not the bullshit you preach:
"The importance of effective population size in influencing the organization and complexity of genomes has recently been highlighted [37]. Our findings support the idea that microevolutionary processes are also strongly influenced by population size, and are evidence for the nearly neutral model of molecular evolution [38] in mammalian genomes."
You keep making the mistake of thinking a constraint on rate is a constraint on how far a creature can evolve. A constraint on speed of 20 mph does not mean you cannot take a 1,000 mile trip. It will only take you 50 hours, where at 50 miles per hour it would take you 20 hours.
The source data I am agreeing with being, results show limits, slow downs and less choices. The data does show that and you cannot disagree with that.

I do not agree with the further speculative modelling that uses mythical and speculated landscapes to propose a plethora of other options that excuse the data into evolutionary terms. I have said it a dozen times.

The data proposes a limit and I do not need more complicatd modelling to realign that data into neutral or bla bla to make it all warm and fuzzy and TOE like.

A constraint is exactly what a limit should look like.
Your example is a perfect example of a 'limit'. ie beneficial mutations 'slow down' or do not offer as many options as they might have without this limit. The research suggests decreases in the chances of beneficial mutations actually being beneficial. Did TOE make this prediction before you found it?

You have no idea of population size and can only guess at mutation rates. The data demonstrates a limit and more algorithmic magic suggests that it is neutral.
So again I say just because the researchers do not agree with me and can come up with computer modelling that makes deterioration or negative epistasis become neutral or not a problem, does not mean that the data does not show a limit as well as deterioration of the genome.
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#64067 Dec 8, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again, why do you think that animals don't have a conscience? They have a different conscience than you do, though a lot of your reactions had to be taught to you also.
One of muh dog critters has a good one...the other one is a scrappy lil aquisition that used to live in a junkyard dog environment. I have to run him straight sometime lol.

Neither one of them messes with the CAT!
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#64069 Dec 8, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
You just seem silly about my touchy beliefs......lol
There's some out there like that... Must be harduh being that constrained and limited in thought process to a lil square box :-).
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#64070 Dec 8, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
They can't? That's news to the other animals:
http://desmoines.whotv.com/news/news/66311-ap...
http://webecoist.momtastic.com/2009/08/28/nat...
Even bats will help out their needy. So, you were lying what?
Read the simple sentence again-and notice the word "often".

Then ask yourself why you feel the need to attack pitchfork and witchhunt style, on others.

Level 5

Since: Apr 11

North Hollywood, CA

#64071 Dec 8, 2012
The Creation story is a Bronze Age myth. This shouldn't even be a debate in the 21st Century. The Creation myth has plants growing before the sun exists. Come on people, think like adults!

Since: Sep 12

Fort Worth, TX

#64072 Dec 8, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>when you are too busy looking for miracles, you will see them in inane things, and then you will miss the important discoveries and experiences. There is a reason we treat delusions and don't just let them fester now.
Look all I am saying is if science can't explain it yet just shut up stand back and marvel the universe is an wonderful beautiful thing. I understand how the sun works how the planets move but I don't take the sunset for granted.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#64073 Dec 8, 2012
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL.
You blow hard but produce no wind.
Let me know when you have a rational argument.
Still banking on the refuted notion of "genetic entropy"?
LOL!!!
No actually I prefer to whip evos with their own hubris. That's much more entertaining.

I am still waiting for that quacker Subby to start talking about junk dna seeing as he asked me to pick something, then he ran away from that one. I guess that was too hard to refute even with your biased conundrums. You certainly can't talk science, oh hopeless one so stick with your philosophical tail chasing.

I am still loving all the hubris about philosophy on an evolution/creation debating thread. LOOSERS!

I love that you lot have only algorithmic garble and misrepresentation to support yourselves with and that creationism has better predictivre ability than TOE.eg non coding dna
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#64074 Dec 8, 2012
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, the newer books about Israel and Judea are telling it like it is instead of trying to fit archaeology into a Biblical mode. The magical Exodus never happened.
Pretty soon there will be nothing left of the Pentateuch as it is disproven now.
Actually--the newer books just give MORE credence and verification--to much of what was written in the older books!!

(but you have to READ these types books FIRST, to realize that!)

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#64075 Dec 8, 2012
Yawn, more of the same from Maz.

Nothing new, just the same old song and dance. She has yet to show why the people she quotes are wrong. None of them believe her nonsense about limits to evolution, why should we believe her?
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#64076 Dec 8, 2012
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>A plethora? No not a plethora. My God, why didn't someone tell me she had a plethora.
Is that like a plebiscite?
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#64077 Dec 8, 2012
Rose_NoHo wrote:
The Creation story is a Bronze Age myth. This shouldn't even be a debate in the 21st Century. The Creation myth has plants growing before the sun exists. Come on people, think like adults!
Water..rocks...fossils...duhm as theory lol.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#64078 Dec 8, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
No actually I prefer to whip evos with their own hubris. That's much more entertaining.
I am still waiting for that quacker Subby to start talking about junk dna seeing as he asked me to pick something, then he ran away from that one. I guess that was too hard to refute even with your biased conundrums. You certainly can't talk science, oh hopeless one so stick with your philosophical tail chasing.
I am still loving all the hubris about philosophy on an evolution/creation debating thread. LOOSERS!
I love that you lot have only algorithmic garble and misrepresentation to support yourselves with and that creationism has better predictivre ability than TOE.eg non coding dna
So let's see a cretinist paper that makes these supposed predictions, of course to be a prediction it had to be made before these latest findings came out.

So far you have supplied nothing that has any predictions from any creationists or even creatards. Actually there are very very few creationists the vast majority are creatards.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#64079 Dec 8, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
Look all I am saying is if science can't explain it yet just shut up stand back and marvel the universe is an wonderful beautiful thing. I understand how the sun works how the planets move but I don't take the sunset for granted.
If we did that, we'd never get anywhere. The astronauts were not happy with just sitting back and marveling at the moon, if they were, they would have never set foot on it.

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#64080 Dec 8, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Aah yes. That rant of Maz. I was trying to lead her up to the question about whether Archaeopteryx had hollow bones, it did by the way< and she went off on one of her Fruit Loops rants.
Of course she denied Archaeopteryx having hollow bones since according to her it is a dinosaur, and that's all.
Transitional species make for fun debates with creatards. Just let them pick which species that the animal "definitely" is and let the fun begin.
It's hilarious how she will claim similar trait as being *definitely* either "bird" or "dino" traits. As in "it had a 'dino' beak," not a "bird beak." "A movable thighbone like a 'dino,'" not a "moveable thighbone like a bird." Obviously they aren't going to be exactly the same, but how someone can go down the list, splitting hairs while assigning similar traits that are clearly supportive of evolution as "dino only" or "bird only" is beyond me. That's why she has to be a poe. The other option, that there are people like her, is too depressing.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#64081 Dec 8, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>It's hilarious how she will claim similar trait as being *definitely* either "bird" or "dino" traits. As in "it had a 'dino' beak," not a "bird beak." "A movable thighbone like a 'dino,'" not a "moveable thighbone like a bird." Obviously they aren't going to be exactly the same, but how someone can go down the list, splitting hairs while assigning similar traits that are clearly supportive of evolution as "dino only" or "bird only" is beyond me. That's why she has to be a poe. The other option, that there are people like her, is too depressing.
Oh so back to arch now.

Listen buddy, the fact is that your idiot researchers have found modern bird footprints with a reversed hallux dated to 212mya that they don't know what to do with. So they blab around and try to show how a feathered dinosaur that had no reversed hallux is suposed to mean something to anyone that cares and invent a mythical theropod that is undiscovered to address the avian footprints instead. Well done geese!.

I can clearly demonstrate what is a bird with one single feature, a reversed hallux, while you lot of evos are still chasing your tails.

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