Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

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Russell

Salisbury, Australia

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#63953
Dec 8, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolutionary? Ask a biologist, I'm just studying it as a passing fancy and nothing more. Now, if you want to know how chemicals react, I can help a bit with that. But really, if you want to know how the machine you're using works, from the ground up, ask me, or any of the other atheists who helped build and program them so you could spew your idiotic non-science.
A great creation scientist:

"Not only did Babbage conceive the forerunner of today’s computer hardware (the machinery), but he also conceived the necessity for a program (which is how today’s computer software functions). Babbage’s conception of how programs would be written closely resembles the techniques used in modern computer programming.

Babbage became a founding member of the British Association for the Advancement of Science in 1831, and helped found the Royal Astronomical Society. He also had been instrumental in founding the Statistical Society in 1834. He compiled the first reliable actuarial tables—that is, the ‘risk’ tables used by insurance companies, and he helped establish the modern postal system in England.

Babbage was a prolific inventor. He invented the speedometer, the cowcatcher used on the front of locomotives, and an early ophthalmoscope—the instrument used by doctors to see inside your eye. He also invented hundreds of tools and mechanical devices for use in factories. Some of his other inventions had applications in mining, architecture and bridge construction."

http://creation.com/great-creation-scientist

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#63954
Dec 8, 2012
 
And Russell, why must you ensure that you lose by lying at the end of a post. I can prove that there are mountains of scientific evidence for evolution and none for creation.

Like the truth, you would not know evidence if it smacked you in the face. So once again, Russell is on the right, this time instead of "the truth" this time the dance is about evidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#63955
Dec 8, 2012
 
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Good start
Appeal to ignorance
No one is suggesting an appeal to you.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#63956
Dec 8, 2012
 
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Good start
Appeal to ignorance
You don't know what that means, do you? I just admitted to not knowing, that's not a fallacy, why would I know? I haven't studied that yet, unlike you I don't attempt to address what I haven't at least read about, because that would be dishonest.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#63957
Dec 8, 2012
 
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
A great creation scientist:
"Not only did Babbage conceive the forerunner of today’s computer hardware (the machinery), but he also conceived the necessity for a program (which is how today’s computer software functions). Babbage’s conception of how programs would be written closely resembles the techniques used in modern computer programming.
Babbage became a founding member of the British Association for the Advancement of Science in 1831, and helped found the Royal Astronomical Society. He also had been instrumental in founding the Statistical Society in 1834. He compiled the first reliable actuarial tables—that is, the ‘risk’ tables used by insurance companies, and he helped establish the modern postal system in England.
Babbage was a prolific inventor. He invented the speedometer, the cowcatcher used on the front of locomotives, and an early ophthalmoscope—the instrument used by doctors to see inside your eye. He also invented hundreds of tools and mechanical devices for use in factories. Some of his other inventions had applications in mining, architecture and bridge construction."
http://creation.com/great-creation-scientist
Um, so, what peer reviewed papers about creationism has he published? Seems to me he's actually an inventor, not a "creation scientist."

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#63958
Dec 8, 2012
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
And about as easy to defeat. Of course like Ray he keeps coming back for more.
Nice point and it gives me an idea. Now where did I put my banana?
Wait a sec! Comfort is a Kiwi, Russell is a Kangaroo buggerer. I think he got a few kicks to his head in the process. Do you have anything handy for dealing with Ken Ham?
No, we baked Ham last month, it was Thanks Giving after all.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

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#63959
Dec 8, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
You just won the golden qqoq award!
I was going to reply to that but I really don't want to start reading through her irrelevant junk just to try to find what she might be thinking incorrectly about.

Seriously, what's with these people? Nitpicking over Archeopteryx wishbones and flagella? I'm sure that the mechanics of their evolution would make sense if we were aware of the context of their evolution.

I've been saying the Evolution is a passive response to environmental pressures. That doesn't seem to register at all. They seem to want to go on providing junk data for a Gish gallop, but don't really have the linguistic and analytical ability to form viable arguments, or even to understand the rebuttals from anyone who takes the time to read their junk. It's a waste of time to read their links because they're non-sequiturs in the context that they're using them in.

We've already stated that transitional mutations are just that. Transitional. If Archeopteryx is transitional, it may suggest that it was not a fully functional flyer, similar to "flying" squirrels or frogs which really climb trees and then glide with their winglike structures. Complex adaptations are multi-step processes.

There's no trickery in Evolution, just an appreciation for the complexity of events that occur over millions of years.

I concur with the observation that the latest batch of Creationist posters are poe aliases. They've already de-legitimized their positions by ranting about "evolutionists" rather than Evolution. I have no intention of defending an imaginary group of people, just the idea of Evolution.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#63960
Dec 8, 2012
 
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
A great creation scientist:
"Not only did Babbage conceive the forerunner of today’s computer hardware (the machinery), but he also conceived the necessity for a program (which is how today’s computer software functions). Babbage’s conception of how programs would be written closely resembles the techniques used in modern computer programming.
Babbage became a founding member of the British Association for the Advancement of Science in 1831, and helped found the Royal Astronomical Society. He also had been instrumental in founding the Statistical Society in 1834. He compiled the first reliable actuarial tables—that is, the ‘risk’ tables used by insurance companies, and he helped establish the modern postal system in England.
Babbage was a prolific inventor. He invented the speedometer, the cowcatcher used on the front of locomotives, and an early ophthalmoscope—the instrument used by doctors to see inside your eye. He also invented hundreds of tools and mechanical devices for use in factories. Some of his other inventions had applications in mining, architecture and bridge construction."
http://creation.com/great-creation-scientist
Babbage was not a "creation scientist". There is no such animal since there is no such thing as "creation science" yet.

Now he may have been a scientist who believed in a biblical creation. But that does not make him a creation scientist. And it is not reasonable to claim someone is a creationist before Darwin's time. People knew of no other mechanism besides the bedtime fairy tales they had heard as children.

Russell, your article from your lying source forgot to include any evidence that Babbage was a creationist.

NEWS FLASH: Russell's lying site is caught lying again.

Towards the end of his life Babbage was an evolutionist. The very papers that Russell's source sites show that Babbage believed in a clockwork deity who set up the universe to run so that he did not have to constantly interfere:

http://www.xtimeline.com/evt/view.aspx...

"He also postulated on theory of evolution in his unofficial "Ninth Bridgewater Treatise" in 1837, putting forward the thesis that God had the omnipotence and foresight to create as a divine legislator, making laws (or programs) which then produced species at the appropriate times, rather than continually interfering with ad hoc miracles each time a new species was required"

Russell's lying source once again conflated Christian with creationist.

And Russell wonders why one of his nicknames is colander feet. He shoots himself in the foot so often it is pathetic.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#63961
Dec 8, 2012
 
I am currently going over the Ninth Bridgewater Treatise by Charles Babbage and he definitely is not a creationist. In fact he warns against that sort of assumption in view of the limited geological discoveries of his time, with a specific warning about how the church was wrong about Galileo:

"Such being the present state of the case; — it surely becomes a duty to require a very high degree of evidence, before we again claim authority for the opinion that the book of Genesis contains such a precise account of the work of the creation, that we may venture to appeal to it as a refutation of observed facts. The history of the past errors of our parent Church supplies us with a lesson of caution which ought not to be lost by its reformed successors. The fact that the venerable Galileo was compelled publicly to deny, on bended knee, a truth of which he had the most convincing demonstration, remains as a beacon to all after time, and ought not to be without its influence on the inquiring minds of the present day."

http://www.victorianweb.org/science/science_t...

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#63962
Dec 8, 2012
 
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
I was going to reply to that but I really don't want to start reading through her irrelevant junk just to try to find what she might be thinking incorrectly about.
Seriously, what's with these people? Nitpicking over Archeopteryx wishbones and flagella? I'm sure that the mechanics of their evolution would make sense if we were aware of the context of their evolution.
I've been saying the Evolution is a passive response to environmental pressures. That doesn't seem to register at all. They seem to want to go on providing junk data for a Gish gallop, but don't really have the linguistic and analytical ability to form viable arguments, or even to understand the rebuttals from anyone who takes the time to read their junk. It's a waste of time to read their links because they're non-sequiturs in the context that th......
About the Poe thing, I don't think they are, I think the delusional people are just getting more desperate or just learning how to enter a URL. They lost the election and equal rights are finally starting to move in the US again, it would drive anyone who's insane nuts.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Level 1

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

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#63963
Dec 8, 2012
 
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Maz
This is Russell
A fellow Aussie
You're doing a GREAT job....please keep going!
Do not give in to the bigotry either
I have said on numerous occasions that I will no sooner cease linking to Creation.com than ask Rosa Parks to give up her seat
A number on this forum....who will remain nameless...unless they disclose themselves....have had their bottoms walloped BIG TIME with 'evo-god's mangled carcass'....in my own words
Check out this part of the parallel "debate"...if you can call it that....it's been more like an evo-blood bath with evo-carnage everywhere...
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TMH...
One of the present evo-god worshippers you are debating with CAN NOT ever accept he is wrong....even when unequivocally proven to be lying...
He just cant!
Its pathological....or pathetic...pathologiaclly pathetic
Utterly Sub-standard..in a zone...of lies....wink...wink
Things that make me think:

Odd that an Aussie, talking to a fellow Aussie, would use an American reference. One would think that with all the racial issue the white Australians had with the Australian Aborigines, that a suitable Australian reference would have been used, thus ensuring the understanding between the two Aussies.

I am sure that many excuses will or could be made, but I wouldn't believe them. I believe that someone is lying about being an Aussie.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

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#63964
Dec 8, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
About the Poe thing, I don't think they are, I think the delusional people are just getting more desperate or just learning how to enter a URL. They lost the election and equal rights are finally starting to move in the US again, it would drive anyone who's insane nuts.
Nutty but a lunatic's standards, eh? ;)

Well, we don't want to give legitimacy to nuttiness, but pathos can be a dual-edged sword. It almost won Romney the election after the first debate, so I guess rebuttal is required. I've just lost faith that the audience pays attention to facts. In the big picture, pain is the only thing that compels them to change their world-view.
Not the best observation for someone looking for pathos, but some people are so helpless on so many levels that nothing can help them. They are always easy prey for those who would exploit their "made in God's image" vanity. At the same time, that silent audience would surely laugh at logical people slogging through useless facts.

Mea culpa! I'm an elitist!

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

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#63965
Dec 8, 2012
 
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
What's the evolutionary explanation for ATP synthase?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9069274
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9069291
Please dont say helicase is the answer
Because everyone knows that helicase requires ATP to work...
I found this in my notes:
"set of catalytic residues are responsible for synthesizing ATP"

Cellular Metabolism

http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Note: not for the faint hearted nor poorly educated.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

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#63966
Dec 8, 2012
 
That's "nutty by a lunatic's standards"

I'll put my glasses on!

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

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#63967
Dec 8, 2012
 
Russell wrote:
I will let the posts speak for themselves....
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TMH...
Dont hesitate in going further back than that to see the lying denials...time and time and time again....
And, oh...by the way
NO EVIDENCE FOR EVOLUTION....
Just so we can get on the same page, what alternative theory are you proposing? The most common claims the entire fate of humanity hinges on an argument over a pomegranate between a naked lady and a talking snake.

What's yours?

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

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#63968
Dec 8, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
That's what I said, another Ray Comfort.
I see it as an expression of "Black Knight Syndrome".

“YO BOO”

Level 6

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

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#63969
Dec 8, 2012
 

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KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
That's what I said, another Ray Comfort.
are you a dude

Since: Sep 12

Grand Prairie, TX

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#63970
Dec 8, 2012
 
krissy wrote:
So, what says the thread about the upcoming Mayan End-O-Times Fiesta?
Rubbish

Since: Sep 12

Grand Prairie, TX

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#63971
Dec 8, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>One of your better traits, I give you props for being strong enough to admit you were wrong, most don't want to admit this because they actually think it even means anything. What Adolf was, really has no bearing on what other people do, it's truly a non-issue, as are all such historical characters. Stalin too, a deconverted christian, who eliminated religion in a very heinous manner simply because the threatened his government's power, for example. It has no bearing on how other atheists and deconverts are, it has no bearing on christians either, he's a perfect example because he was ... everything. So if one person can make a whole group look bad, Stalin screwed humanity forever.
We must always remember the hitlers the Stalins the slave owners of our past if we do not it will happen again. The killing of the minority to quench the blood thirst of a majority must not be aloud no matter who it is.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Level 1

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

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#63972
Dec 8, 2012
 
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
We must always remember the hitlers the Stalins the slave owners of our past if we do not it will happen again. The killing of the minority to quench the blood thirst of a majority must not be aloud no matter who it is.
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

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