Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

“There's a feeling I get...”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

#63740 Dec 7, 2012
AustinHook wrote:
<quoted text>
Long legs and a long neck reach the ground just as well as short legs and a short neck. In that they are the same. When all the grass is eaten the long neck can much on the trees, but the shorter ones do not have that fall back upon.
Giraffes like Acacia and Combretums - They have very specialised tongues to navigate the thorns. Their long neck allow them to reach the succulent leaves at the top.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#63741 Dec 7, 2012
AustinHook wrote:
<quoted text>
Even bits in a computer are analogue, but the intermediate states are wasted so as to minimize the chances of error. BTW a lot of logic is tri-state, even in digital electronics. Early computers I worked with were decimal or bi-quinary. Digital computers could use other bases than binary.
A lot of communications technology uses 4, 8 or even larger number bases. That's how advances in modem technology were made. I remember the confusion over what could be the maximum channel capacity of a band limited phone line. Teletypes started off using 75 or 110 bits per second, and them modems going 300, 1200 or 2400 were used on phone lines. First it was said that there was an absolute limit of 2400 baud, and then modem manufactures started putting out modems with 4800, 9600 and higher bit rates. Well actually it WAS limited to 2400 baud, but one baud is a state change and for a while people were so caught up in the idea that binary=digital that they didn't take to heart the fact that a state change can contain more information than simply on or off. As soon as that unnecessary constraint was lifted communications started using non-binary states and modem speeds took off again.
There is some theory that estimates that the most economic base for a computer should be that integer number that is closest to the base of the natural logarithms which is around 2.7. In that case the most economical computers should be base 3.
Still I haven't seen any technological developments that indicate that analogue computing is headed for a comeback except in special cases.
I know quite a lot about digital systems and the history of digital electronics, but not so much about analogue, my only experience of analogue electronics is in the general fields of TV/Radio so thanks for the info.

Following my conversation with Kitten I spent some of yesterday (while I spent 10 hours travelling to and from a 25 minute meeting) looking at the analogue side of modern computing.

From what I now understand they are more simulation specific than calculation specific (and therefore less flexible) than their digital counterpart but considerably faster at performing their dedicated simulations.

Here’s a paper from columbia uni dated 2005 for an analogue computer idea that solves differential equations at the rate of 14Gflops
http://www.cisl.columbia.edu/grads/gcowan/vls...

And here is one from Reading uni with a discussion of the differences in processing methods and ways of comparing speeds.
http://www.met.reading.ac.uk/~sws97mha/Public...

Since: Nov 12

Milk River, Canada

#63742 Dec 7, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>

I'm asking how does DNA of one species change into another.
Are you saying that you really don't know this already?

Since: Nov 12

Milk River, Canada

#63743 Dec 7, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
Alright but how does it come to be that 2 of a compatible species would have come to be at the same time?(What are the odds really?)
Speciation is not a quantum step, it's a gradual process. This is the perspective that you are missing.

Since: Nov 12

Milk River, Canada

#63744 Dec 7, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Odds do not describe what happens at all. You are still thinking like a creatard, stop that and you will actually have time to learn instead of asking random stupid questions on a forum full of random people.
I trust it was an innocent question, and merely needs a simple answer.

Since: Nov 12

Milk River, Canada

#63745 Dec 7, 2012
Makesure100 wrote:
<quoted text>
NO fossil evidence, just a large gap in between. The easy way out is to say there is no creator..........freaky and isolated, solitude. No proof.........no proof.
I too suspect a large gap. Might be between the ears. Pretty sure you are faking it though. Happy trolling.

Since: Nov 12

Milk River, Canada

#63746 Dec 7, 2012
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Giraffes like Acacia and Combretums - They have very specialised tongues to navigate the thorns. Their long neck allow them to reach the succulent leaves at the top.
My goat ate up all our rosebushes this summer. Tongue seems normal.

“There's a feeling I get...”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

#63747 Dec 7, 2012
AustinHook wrote:
<quoted text>
My goat ate up all our rosebushes this summer. Tongue seems normal.
Acacia thorns are a bit more dangerous:

http://www.google.co.za/imgres...

“There's a feeling I get...”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

#63748 Dec 7, 2012

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#63749 Dec 7, 2012
AustinHook wrote:
<quoted text>
My goat ate up all our rosebushes this summer. Tongue seems normal.
You are lucky, my goats are partial to eating my clothes
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#63750 Dec 7, 2012
AustinHook wrote:
<quoted text>
I attended a two day seminar with Malidoma Some, from Upper Volta (Burkina Faso) who grew up with dual traditions, Jesuit and witch doctor. He convinced us of how we have an innate attraction to ritual, and it does have a good side, in that it facilitates community building, and can bring a sense of piece if done gently.
Sure, ritual can be a potent force for evil, but for good as well if kept in balance. I would not be too hasty to deprecate it's value.
Heck, I still put up a Christmas tree! I appreciate the spirit of Christmas, but it one of the more natural aspects of Christian culture, an altruistic ritual that has little fear of damnation associated with it.

Most rituals are like apes symbolically mounting each other to show dominance. Most people are very maladjusted because they have so much programmed into them and so little conscious understanding to go with it. What people should fundamentally understand is that Christianity IS indoctrination into the agenda of the State. That pretty much comes down to obeying the law and breeding yourself into a state of dependence on the good will of the herd.

What you think of the State is another matter. In the U.S., we seem to have put the agenda of an aristocracy over the needs or our own lives. Because of that, I blame the Church for failing to see to spirituality in favor of the aristocracy's personal ambitions.

Generally, we could talk about politics and why we spend so much on our military, etc, but that's not the topic here. Visit a few non-American comedy websites and see what our image has become. We tend to be referred to as "murikans", fat and hard-headed pigs, shoving our way into the middle of everything. It's true! We don't care about our long term health. We have absolutely have no interest in understanding others. We've become herd animals who never question our masters. I won't have anything to do with that culture.(Or lack thereof!)

From an evolutionary standpoint, perhaps that is the natural order of things. Until we consume every last scrap of fossil fuels and other natural resources, we only risk allowing others to take them first to dominate us. There will be no stability until those resources are gone for good and humanity is back to living within the planet's means.

Personally, I'd rather have some of the comforts of civilization, but not if it means being a 'murikan!

Since: Nov 12

Milk River, Canada

#63751 Dec 7, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Following my conversation with Kitten I spent some of yesterday (while I spent 10 hours travelling to and from a 25 minute meeting) looking at the analogue side of modern computing.
From what I now understand they are more simulation specific than calculation specific (and therefore less flexible) than their digital counterpart but considerably faster at performing their dedicated simulations.
Looked at your links. Neato. I was feeling sorry for Analog SF magazine the other day, stuck with an name like that, while supposedly speculating on the future, when everything seems to have gone digital. Nice to see it still has a niche. I suppose with a gate array approach to analogue, perhaps the implementations can be made less specific. Of course, these days a lot of chips are mixed analogue/digital already.

Participated in converting a large analogue seismic processing system into digital in the mid-60's, near Paris, France. Fresh from learning digital I was amazed, actually, at how much had been done with analogue. As an early teenager I had played with amateur radio. It was fun, but I found the cookbook approach quite a tease, and yearned to know the math that would give me real insight. Then digital swept me away. Took MIT's online 6002X course last spring. It was a great and fun bridge between all I learned by myself in analogue electronics as a kid to all I learned by myself later.

OOps, getting off evolutionary topic here. Maybe time to start discussing genetic algorithms or something... Thanks for the interlude!

Since: Nov 12

Milk River, Canada

#63752 Dec 7, 2012
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
Personally, I'd rather have some of the comforts of civilization, but not if it means being a 'murikan!
Ran into that slang in a conversation by two French girls when I first moved to Paris. They were a bit embarrassed that I caught the phrase. I really didn't mind, Yankee was a deprecating slang once too.
(For context I was a New Yorker, left the USA in 1965 at 22, and never came back, but eventually settled in Canada)

I have lived in enough places around the world to know both the great marvels and the great faults of many a country. It's easy to flip from one view to the opposite of one's own country. Fight the worst, and strive for the best, and have fun doing it! Eh?
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#63753 Dec 7, 2012
AustinHook wrote:
<quoted text>
Ran into that slang in a conversation by two French girls when I first moved to Paris. They were a bit embarrassed that I caught the phrase. I really didn't mind, Yankee was a deprecating slang once too.
(For context I was a New Yorker, left the USA in 1965 at 22, and never came back, but eventually settled in Canada)
I have lived in enough places around the world to know both the great marvels and the great faults of many a country. It's easy to flip from one view to the opposite of one's own country. Fight the worst, and strive for the best, and have fun doing it! Eh?
Been there, done that! I spent a couple of years in the Med and around the Persian Gulf. I never got to see Paris but I did spend a lot of time in Toulon and other southern cities.

I'm a suburbanite. I've never spent much time in the really big cities like New York or Paris. The people tend to be rude to outsiders and from what I've observed, those same people have a hard time traveling to foreign places because they kind of expect people to do things their way. All Americans have that label. I guess it's more about geography than anything. Actually, my mother is Canadian so I've visited Montreal, Toronto and St. Johns a lot when I was younger.

Nowadays, I'm not very interested in travel. There's plenty of jobs if you're willing to live in a compound in the Middle East, but I've put down roots and don't think I could sell my house too easy anyway.

It's not easy to be an American abroad nowadays. People tend to lecture you like you have a personal batphone to the president to call and have him fix things. We really get our leashes yanked in every direction, so that "murikan" image is a bit harsh. Still, our freedom is in our own hands. Too bad most of us have allowed ourselves to become cliquish @holes as teenagers, never to look back and free ourselves from such trivial conflicts. The real conflicts are the last things on our minds.
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#63754 Dec 7, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Another word for moderate is enabler, the two are identical concepts. Why should we allow those with the delusions that some imaginary being talks to them and influences the physical world, which they believe because of it lacking any demonstrable evidence, suffer longer? They need treatment for their delusion.
They let anyone post on topics--even delusional, twisted and distorted people like you.
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#63756 Dec 7, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell the creationists, not us.
All the creationists I know-already know that. No need to tell the sane and rational, what they already know.
That type of "all knowing" merely mouthy, delusional, patheTic type deviant behavior crap is for sociopathic, totally inept, incompetent LOSERTICS.
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#63757 Dec 7, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
LMAO! where did you get that theory about giraffes? Darwin from the 1800? LOL.
How does our DNA change? You have an explanation? or sleepiness is your excuse?
The symptoms of delusional sociopathic PSYYCHO-nutcases--no one else in the world could possibly have a clue (let alone OTHER opinions) about the processes of evolution.

People like that shouldn't be allowed to empty bobblehead, lemming herd pack, roam freely, without monitoring.
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#63758 Dec 7, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
If it proves detrimental, the organism(s) die(s) before the trait spreads to most of the population. There, over simplified, but genetics 101.
No they don't.

Look around you--in the REAL world.

And please stay away from children in Science classrooms.
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#63759 Dec 7, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You are awfully close to it. And we don't "worship" Darwin. We appreciate how he explained a difficult idea so clearly. If you don't like the theory of evolution attack the science of it. When we attack the "science" that Hovind uses it is easy to see that he has no real science backing his views.
Derwins incomplete theory is outdated now.

Science has jumped by leaps and bounds, and still has leaps and bounds to go.
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#63760 Dec 7, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet, you pull out the exact same fallacies he does, almost word for word, oh wait, it's Eric Hovind doing the talking mostly now, because senior got in trouble.
Also, you are a YEC, stop pretending otherwise, you liars are really just annoying now, because there are so many of you christian freaks trying to pretend to be non-creationist morons then pulling out the creatard canards and fallacies already addressed by people a million times. Your own inability to learn betrays your lie.
STUNTED intellectual growth-SEE: being MIRED in duh "pwanet of duh apes" theory.

Talk about idiocracy and ignorance.

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