Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#63637 Dec 6, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
I always thought of thinking in odds and statistics was more a mathematical thing.
Life isn't a computer. Do not confuse the two. Life follows algorithms, not math. We use the numbers to describe things, the things are not bound by those numbers. "Odds" is simply stating that we cannot predict all the variables and calculate all the factors, everything is cause and effect, we just don't know all the causes, and intelligent people don't fill in causes with guesses, just like intelligent people know that certain chemical reactions will always occur in specific instances, and that's what you are. All life is a bunch of chemical reactions, which produce the effect we call life.

Since: Sep 12

United States

#63638 Dec 6, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>No, quit thinking of individuals. Populations evolve, not individuals.
The mutations take place on individuals and are passed down each mutation stacking on the last one until the changes thrive or dive right some 150-175 mutations per generation

Level 1

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#63640 Dec 6, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Life isn't a computer. Do not confuse the two. Life follows algorithms, not math. We use the numbers to describe things, the things are not bound by those numbers. "Odds" is simply stating that we cannot predict all the variables and calculate all the factors, everything is cause and effect, we just don't know all the causes, and intelligent people don't fill in causes with guesses, just like intelligent people know that certain chemical reactions will always occur in specific instances, and that's what you are. All life is a bunch of chemical reactions, which produce the effect we call life.
Freakshow why are you here? To spew your stupid thoughts of faithlessness? You should really get a life. You have relly no beliefs, no faith in anything. What keeps you alive? You have nothing.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#63641 Dec 6, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
The mutations take place on individuals and are passed down each mutation stacking on the last one until the changes thrive or dive right some 150-175 mutations per generation
You really are not thinking clearly. If you want to look at it one mutation at a time, which is over simplified and a bit wrong no matter how you do it. The mutation enables an animal to have an edge of some sort. It mates and passes on its mutation. Since it helped him or her on average more of his or her progeny will survive to breed and so on. The right mutations never have to meet up in one couple.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#63642 Dec 6, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
The mutations take place on individuals and are passed down each mutation stacking on the last one until the changes thrive or dive right some 150-175 mutations per generation
LOL!

Since: Sep 12

United States

#63644 Dec 6, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>Life isn't a computer. Do not confuse the two. Life follows algorithms, not math. We use the numbers to describe things, the things are not bound by those numbers. "Odds" is simply stating that we cannot predict all the variables and calculate all the factors, everything is cause and effect, we just don't know all the causes, and intelligent people don't fill in causes with guesses, just like intelligent people know that certain chemical reactions will always occur in specific instances, and that's what you are. All life is a bunch of chemical reactions, which produce the effect we call life.
Just trying to simplify here so.
Evolution is fact.......
But their is no way to know how when why the reactions will take place how it will react or even if it will change anything?
Which would make evolution more a necessity to survive than a matter of time?

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#63645 Dec 6, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
"Mutagenesis?" These things don't just happen over night, and individuals don't change much at all, you are an evolutionary transition from your parents to any offspring you have, or may have. Look in the mirror, it's happening right before you eyes right this minute ... oh wait, you won't see it that way, because ... I repeat, it's not noticeable changes on individuals, the changes are so slow, if you watched a dinosaur evolve into a bird in real time, you'd still say you were watching dinosaurs the whole time ... and even today you'd be calling the birds dinosaurs ... because you wouldn't see the changes. That's why we didn't realize it was happening until we saw the fossil record, and even then, scientists doubted it was what some thought it was until genetics filled in the blanks with some undeniable information, evidence that could only point toward evolution.
There is a lot of contradiction in your statement. If we evolved gradually how did some dino evolved into some weightless bird. That's some drastic change in size. LOL.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#63646 Dec 6, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
The mutations take place on individuals and are passed down each mutation stacking on the last one until the changes thrive or dive right some 150-175 mutations per generation
You are sort of getting it. Now, you need to learn what a mutation is. A mutation is any change, any change at all, in the billions of molecules that make up the DNA. So 175 is less than a 1% change, if there are 3 billion pairs, for example, 175 mutations is 0.000000058% change. The human gene has 3 billion pairs. Now it unlikely that such a small change is even visible, think a new pimple that's passed down through generations, each generation it gets just a bit bigger, after a few hundred that pimple looks more like a mole ... a few hundred more it's now hard and pointy, but still so tiny almost no one notices it ... a few thousand more and humans have horns. Of course this hypothetical is not likely to happen, and the artificial selection are are now doing for ourselves may prevent the trait from being passed on to enough generations and it will either be replaced by something else, or just fade out completely. In the natural world, it would be a new weapon, possibly a mating feature, the possibilities of how it would influence the organism are too vast to calculate, so we often simplify it and give it an "odds" value based on statistical data, which is not right very often yet because it still needs more study. But, it happens, you are an evolutionary step from your parents, just because you were born, you have mutations in your genes.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#63647 Dec 6, 2012
Makesure100 wrote:
<quoted text>
Freakshow why are you here? To spew your stupid thoughts of faithlessness? You should really get a life. You have relly no beliefs, no faith in anything. What keeps you alive? You have nothing.
Aw, I have a new fan. How sweet. Autographs are every other Tuesday at the rec center, just below the gold statue of Darwin, be there, or be square, you little button, you.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#63648 Dec 6, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a lot of contradiction in your statement. If we evolved gradually how did some dino evolved into some weightless bird. That's some drastic change in size. LOL.
you are still thinking both immediate and minuscule scale. See my post to Bat Foy, if you don't understand why this post of yours is ignorant then there is no way I'm spending, well wasting, the time to explain it to you at all, SubductionZone may have patience left, I do not.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#63649 Dec 6, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a lot of contradiction in your statement. If we evolved gradually how did some dino evolved into some weightless bird. That's some drastic change in size. LOL.
There is an old saying "A trip of 1,000 miles starts with a single step". Small changes add up. Are you saying that a trip of that distance is impossible? People use to do it quite often in the past by walking.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#63650 Dec 6, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
You are sort of getting it. Now, you need to learn what a mutation is. A mutation is any change, any change at all, in the billions of molecules that make up the DNA. So 175 is less than a 1% change, if there are 3 billion pairs, for example, 175 mutations is 0.000000058% change. The human gene has 3 billion pairs. Now it unlikely that such a small change is even visible, think a new pimple that's passed down through generations, each generation it gets just a bit bigger, after a few hundred that pimple looks more like a mole ... a few hundred more it's now hard and pointy, but still so tiny almost no one notices it ... a few thousand more and humans have horns. Of course this hypothetical is not likely to happen, and the artificial selection are are now doing for ourselves may prevent the trait from being passed on to enough generations and it will either be replaced by something else, or just fade out completely. In the natural world, it would be a new weapon, possibly a mating feature, the possibilities of how it would influence the organism are too vast to calculate, so we often simplify it and give it an "odds" value based on statistical data, which is not right very often yet because it still needs more study. But, it happens, you are an evolutionary step from your parents, just because you were born, you have mutations in your genes.
or we can just speed up the process with genetic engineering, cross species, and cloning. We play god and then we become gods! You said unicorn didn't you?

“too hard to handle”

Level 4

Since: Jun 11

butler, pa

#63651 Dec 6, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Life isn't a computer. Do not confuse the two. Life follows algorithms, not math. We use the numbers to describe things, the things are not bound by those numbers. "Odds" is simply stating that we cannot predict all the variables and calculate all the factors, everything is cause and effect, we just don't know all the causes, and intelligent people don't fill in causes with guesses, just like intelligent people know that certain chemical reactions will always occur in specific instances, and that's what you are. All life is a bunch of chemical reactions, which produce the effect we call life.
Still just a bunch of chemical reactions?

Describe and define then the evolution of sentience (reasoning, the sense of self, personality, thinking, etc). I would contend that sentience is very much more than just a bunch of chemical reactions.

Since: Sep 12

United States

#63652 Dec 6, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>You really are not thinking clearly. If you want to look at it one mutation at a time, which is over simplified and a bit wrong no matter how you do it. The mutation enables an animal to have an edge of some sort. It mates and passes on its mutation. Since it helped him or her on average more of his or her progeny will survive to breed and so on. The right mutations never have to meet up in one couple.
I think I jumped ahead or misread one of your previous posts I thought you had said 150-175 mutations per generation. Can evolution be reproduced? I've read some stuff about them trying on fruit flies and failing. I think it was looking for mutations and trying to breed them to be better flies?

Since: Sep 12

United States

#63653 Dec 6, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>LOL!
Take it easy on the LOL I'm really trying to understand this stuff.
To be honest I've been reading and reading trying to get it all for the last three weeks and I gotta tell ya faith as complicated as it can get is a cake walk in comparison.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#63654 Dec 6, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
or we can just speed up the process with genetic engineering, cross species, and cloning. We play god and then we become gods! You said unicorn didn't you?
Conspiracy nuttery, and a possible Ray Comfort fallacy hidden in there because, we have been genetically engineering our food sources since we learned how to farm. It's the reason we have cows, corn, bananas you can bite into, and a mess of other really successful genetically engineered food products. Yeah, that's genetic engineering, the cow, not natural at all, we made it, by choosing specific types to breed and letting the others die off. We chose corn that was tastier and planted more of it, ignoring what didn't taste so well. We found the bananas with the fewest seeds, and kept planting and eating what we could from those, eventually, after a few thousand years, a lot more for some, we now have yellow corn, soft bananas, and beef.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#63655 Dec 6, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
I think I jumped ahead or misread one of your previous posts I thought you had said 150-175 mutations per generation. Can evolution be reproduced? I've read some stuff about them trying on fruit flies and failing. I think it was looking for mutations and trying to breed them to be better flies?
Several fruit fly "guided" tests were done, and several were very successful actually. There was one where they were guided to two completely different species of fruit flies. They choose fruit flies because they have a really short breeding cycle and lifespan, in other species they'd still be working on the first few generations.

Since: Sep 12

United States

#63656 Dec 6, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>You are sort of getting it. Now, you need to learn what a mutation is. A mutation is any change, any change at all, in the billions of molecules that make up the DNA. So 175 is less than a 1% change, if there are 3 billion pairs, for example, 175 mutations is 0.000000058% change. The human gene has 3 billion pairs. Now it unlikely that such a small change is even visible, think a new pimple that's passed down through generations, each generation it gets just a bit bigger, after a few hundred that pimple looks more like a mole ... a few hundred more it's now hard and pointy, but still so tiny almost no one notices it ... a few thousand more and humans have horns. Of course this hypothetical is not likely to happen, and the artificial selection are are now doing for ourselves may prevent the trait from being passed on to enough generations and it will either be replaced by something else, or just fade out completely. In the natural world, it would be a new weapon, possibly a mating feature, the possibilities of how it would influence the organism are too vast to calculate, so we often simplify it and give it an "odds" value based on statistical data, which is not right very often yet because it still needs more study. But, it happens, you are an evolutionary step from your parents, just because you were born, you have mutations in your genes.
Not sure if this made since or not

Evolution is fact.......
But their is no way to know how when why the reactions will take place how it will react or even if it will change anything?
Which would make evolution more a necessity to survive than a matter of time?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#63657 Dec 6, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
I think I jumped ahead or misread one of your previous posts I thought you had said 150-175 mutations per generation. Can evolution be reproduced? I've read some stuff about them trying on fruit flies and failing. I think it was looking for mutations and trying to breed them to be better flies?
There are so many possible changes that it is not really possible for the same path to be taken.

I don't think the changes they were trying for was to improve the fruit flies.

Level 1

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#63658 Dec 6, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Aw, I have a new fan. How sweet. Autographs are every other Tuesday at the rec center, just below the gold statue of Darwin, be there, or be square, you little button, you.
Call me Boris.

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