Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Read more

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#63630 Dec 6, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
Alright but how does it come to be that 2 of a compatible species would have come to be at the same time?(What are the odds really?)
No, quit thinking of individuals. Populations evolve, not individuals.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#63631 Dec 6, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You may have taken those classes but it is sad to see that you did not learn what evidence is.
Similarities in DNA is evidence for evolution. It is an undeniable fact by anyone who understands evidence.
And one more point on giraffes. If the environment changed again so that grass was constantly available the extra energy required to grow a long neck would be detrimental and short giraffes would evolve again.
I didn't see the evidence, that's right. I was hoping for something like evidence in mutagenesis in nature or in a lab. I am really more interested in genetics than fossil records as some evidence turned out to be a hoax.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#63632 Dec 6, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't see the evidence, that's right. I was hoping for something like evidence in mutagenesis in nature or in a lab. I am really more interested in genetics than fossil records as some evidence turned out to be a hoax.
Laboratory evidence can be hoaxed too. That is another reason there is peer review. Also science must be repeatable. One fossil can be hoaxed, many fossils cannot be hoaxed.

I am surprised that you have no interest in finding out what is scientific evidence.

Level 1

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#63633 Dec 6, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Aah, idiot it is then.
NO fossil evidence, just a large gap in between. The easy way out is to say there is no creator..........freaky and isolated, solitude. No proof.........no proof.

Since: Sep 12

United States

#63634 Dec 6, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>Odds do not describe what happens at all. You are still thinking like a creatard, stop that and you will actually have time to learn instead of asking random stupid questions on a forum full of random people.
I always thought of thinking in odds and statistics was more a mathematical thing.

Level 1

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#63635 Dec 6, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Laboratory evidence can be hoaxed too. That is another reason there is peer review. Also science must be repeatable. One fossil can be hoaxed, many fossils cannot be hoaxed.
I am surprised that you have no interest in finding out what is scientific evidence.
Science doesn't exsist Freakshow. Lets have a party.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#63636 Dec 6, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't see the evidence, that's right. I was hoping for something like evidence in mutagenesis in nature or in a lab. I am really more interested in genetics than fossil records as some evidence turned out to be a hoax.
"Mutagenesis?" These things don't just happen over night, and individuals don't change much at all, you are an evolutionary transition from your parents to any offspring you have, or may have. Look in the mirror, it's happening right before you eyes right this minute ... oh wait, you won't see it that way, because ... I repeat, it's not noticeable changes on individuals, the changes are so slow, if you watched a dinosaur evolve into a bird in real time, you'd still say you were watching dinosaurs the whole time ... and even today you'd be calling the birds dinosaurs ... because you wouldn't see the changes. That's why we didn't realize it was happening until we saw the fossil record, and even then, scientists doubted it was what some thought it was until genetics filled in the blanks with some undeniable information, evidence that could only point toward evolution.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#63637 Dec 6, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
I always thought of thinking in odds and statistics was more a mathematical thing.
Life isn't a computer. Do not confuse the two. Life follows algorithms, not math. We use the numbers to describe things, the things are not bound by those numbers. "Odds" is simply stating that we cannot predict all the variables and calculate all the factors, everything is cause and effect, we just don't know all the causes, and intelligent people don't fill in causes with guesses, just like intelligent people know that certain chemical reactions will always occur in specific instances, and that's what you are. All life is a bunch of chemical reactions, which produce the effect we call life.

Since: Sep 12

United States

#63638 Dec 6, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>No, quit thinking of individuals. Populations evolve, not individuals.
The mutations take place on individuals and are passed down each mutation stacking on the last one until the changes thrive or dive right some 150-175 mutations per generation

Level 1

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#63640 Dec 6, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Life isn't a computer. Do not confuse the two. Life follows algorithms, not math. We use the numbers to describe things, the things are not bound by those numbers. "Odds" is simply stating that we cannot predict all the variables and calculate all the factors, everything is cause and effect, we just don't know all the causes, and intelligent people don't fill in causes with guesses, just like intelligent people know that certain chemical reactions will always occur in specific instances, and that's what you are. All life is a bunch of chemical reactions, which produce the effect we call life.
Freakshow why are you here? To spew your stupid thoughts of faithlessness? You should really get a life. You have relly no beliefs, no faith in anything. What keeps you alive? You have nothing.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#63641 Dec 6, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
The mutations take place on individuals and are passed down each mutation stacking on the last one until the changes thrive or dive right some 150-175 mutations per generation
You really are not thinking clearly. If you want to look at it one mutation at a time, which is over simplified and a bit wrong no matter how you do it. The mutation enables an animal to have an edge of some sort. It mates and passes on its mutation. Since it helped him or her on average more of his or her progeny will survive to breed and so on. The right mutations never have to meet up in one couple.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#63642 Dec 6, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
The mutations take place on individuals and are passed down each mutation stacking on the last one until the changes thrive or dive right some 150-175 mutations per generation
LOL!

Since: Sep 12

United States

#63644 Dec 6, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>Life isn't a computer. Do not confuse the two. Life follows algorithms, not math. We use the numbers to describe things, the things are not bound by those numbers. "Odds" is simply stating that we cannot predict all the variables and calculate all the factors, everything is cause and effect, we just don't know all the causes, and intelligent people don't fill in causes with guesses, just like intelligent people know that certain chemical reactions will always occur in specific instances, and that's what you are. All life is a bunch of chemical reactions, which produce the effect we call life.
Just trying to simplify here so.
Evolution is fact.......
But their is no way to know how when why the reactions will take place how it will react or even if it will change anything?
Which would make evolution more a necessity to survive than a matter of time?

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#63645 Dec 6, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
"Mutagenesis?" These things don't just happen over night, and individuals don't change much at all, you are an evolutionary transition from your parents to any offspring you have, or may have. Look in the mirror, it's happening right before you eyes right this minute ... oh wait, you won't see it that way, because ... I repeat, it's not noticeable changes on individuals, the changes are so slow, if you watched a dinosaur evolve into a bird in real time, you'd still say you were watching dinosaurs the whole time ... and even today you'd be calling the birds dinosaurs ... because you wouldn't see the changes. That's why we didn't realize it was happening until we saw the fossil record, and even then, scientists doubted it was what some thought it was until genetics filled in the blanks with some undeniable information, evidence that could only point toward evolution.
There is a lot of contradiction in your statement. If we evolved gradually how did some dino evolved into some weightless bird. That's some drastic change in size. LOL.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#63646 Dec 6, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
The mutations take place on individuals and are passed down each mutation stacking on the last one until the changes thrive or dive right some 150-175 mutations per generation
You are sort of getting it. Now, you need to learn what a mutation is. A mutation is any change, any change at all, in the billions of molecules that make up the DNA. So 175 is less than a 1% change, if there are 3 billion pairs, for example, 175 mutations is 0.000000058% change. The human gene has 3 billion pairs. Now it unlikely that such a small change is even visible, think a new pimple that's passed down through generations, each generation it gets just a bit bigger, after a few hundred that pimple looks more like a mole ... a few hundred more it's now hard and pointy, but still so tiny almost no one notices it ... a few thousand more and humans have horns. Of course this hypothetical is not likely to happen, and the artificial selection are are now doing for ourselves may prevent the trait from being passed on to enough generations and it will either be replaced by something else, or just fade out completely. In the natural world, it would be a new weapon, possibly a mating feature, the possibilities of how it would influence the organism are too vast to calculate, so we often simplify it and give it an "odds" value based on statistical data, which is not right very often yet because it still needs more study. But, it happens, you are an evolutionary step from your parents, just because you were born, you have mutations in your genes.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#63647 Dec 6, 2012
Makesure100 wrote:
<quoted text>
Freakshow why are you here? To spew your stupid thoughts of faithlessness? You should really get a life. You have relly no beliefs, no faith in anything. What keeps you alive? You have nothing.
Aw, I have a new fan. How sweet. Autographs are every other Tuesday at the rec center, just below the gold statue of Darwin, be there, or be square, you little button, you.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#63648 Dec 6, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a lot of contradiction in your statement. If we evolved gradually how did some dino evolved into some weightless bird. That's some drastic change in size. LOL.
you are still thinking both immediate and minuscule scale. See my post to Bat Foy, if you don't understand why this post of yours is ignorant then there is no way I'm spending, well wasting, the time to explain it to you at all, SubductionZone may have patience left, I do not.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#63649 Dec 6, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a lot of contradiction in your statement. If we evolved gradually how did some dino evolved into some weightless bird. That's some drastic change in size. LOL.
There is an old saying "A trip of 1,000 miles starts with a single step". Small changes add up. Are you saying that a trip of that distance is impossible? People use to do it quite often in the past by walking.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#63650 Dec 6, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
You are sort of getting it. Now, you need to learn what a mutation is. A mutation is any change, any change at all, in the billions of molecules that make up the DNA. So 175 is less than a 1% change, if there are 3 billion pairs, for example, 175 mutations is 0.000000058% change. The human gene has 3 billion pairs. Now it unlikely that such a small change is even visible, think a new pimple that's passed down through generations, each generation it gets just a bit bigger, after a few hundred that pimple looks more like a mole ... a few hundred more it's now hard and pointy, but still so tiny almost no one notices it ... a few thousand more and humans have horns. Of course this hypothetical is not likely to happen, and the artificial selection are are now doing for ourselves may prevent the trait from being passed on to enough generations and it will either be replaced by something else, or just fade out completely. In the natural world, it would be a new weapon, possibly a mating feature, the possibilities of how it would influence the organism are too vast to calculate, so we often simplify it and give it an "odds" value based on statistical data, which is not right very often yet because it still needs more study. But, it happens, you are an evolutionary step from your parents, just because you were born, you have mutations in your genes.
or we can just speed up the process with genetic engineering, cross species, and cloning. We play god and then we become gods! You said unicorn didn't you?

“too hard to handle”

Level 4

Since: Jun 11

butler, pa

#63651 Dec 6, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Life isn't a computer. Do not confuse the two. Life follows algorithms, not math. We use the numbers to describe things, the things are not bound by those numbers. "Odds" is simply stating that we cannot predict all the variables and calculate all the factors, everything is cause and effect, we just don't know all the causes, and intelligent people don't fill in causes with guesses, just like intelligent people know that certain chemical reactions will always occur in specific instances, and that's what you are. All life is a bunch of chemical reactions, which produce the effect we call life.
Still just a bunch of chemical reactions?

Describe and define then the evolution of sentience (reasoning, the sense of self, personality, thinking, etc). I would contend that sentience is very much more than just a bunch of chemical reactions.

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