Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Read more

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#63326 Dec 5, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Technically, isn't it only bats that actually fly? Others really just glide?
Not countering your points, just that I have heard of no other mammals actually flying.
Insects definitely fly. They generate lift, they can fly in no wind from a low spot to a higher spot. Pterodactyls flew. The rest glide, so far. In a few million years some of those may have moved on to flight too. There is more than one road to flight. Mav does not seem to realize that traits are not exclusive. Just because one group of animals has a trait does not mean that others can't have the same trait too.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#63327 Dec 5, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Feathes are not an avian trait, you idiot. You should know that feathers have been found on dinosaurs. TRex had feathers.
Hence Arch having feathers is not in intermediate trait at all. It was when these bright sparks did not know that dinos had feathers but they do now, and you say that you kow of it.
Flying is not an avian trait either you goose. eg bats and insects, pterodactyl, fish can glide and so can other mammals.
So why do you site feathers as being an intermediate trait when they are not? Why do you site flying is an avian trait?
I suggest that the answer is because in actual fact you have no clue, you just want to prattle on because you have faith with nothing of substance to base it on.
And one of the of closest dinosaur ancestors to birds is what?Ė T, Rex

FYI every stage in evolution is an intermediate trait

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#63328 Dec 5, 2012
What the heck are "pasimony and comlications"?

I think Mav is foaming at the mouth a bit. She can't see the corrections that her spell checker is giving her.

Since: Sep 12

Fort Worth, TX

#63329 Dec 5, 2012
tony1003 wrote:
<quoted text>Interesting thought - given most religions subscribe to ideas similar to the ten commandments. So, if I read you correctly, you argue that good works are sufficient to gain entrance to heaven? Surely that runs counter to the doctrine of the church and especially of the evangelical wing? So why do so many try to use the threat of hell to frighten people into believing in Christ? Not being awkward, would like your view.
As a Christian I believe hell is there. However scaring people to God doesn't work. Telling people about love and acceptance through Christ keeps people listening. Jesus/God want people to love them and I feel with live comes respect not fear.
Man does not go to heaven for good works. What the bible is saying there is how can God punish a man for a sin he didn't know he was guilty of? So for those who have never heard the truth of God they wouldn't know.
So where men don't know any better there is no sin.
Now I should say not everyone agrees with me here.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#63330 Dec 5, 2012
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Those articles suggest that epistasis decreases the rate of adaption and evolution. They do not suggest that evolution does not happen. You are making that up.
So, please stop making this ridiculous article and pointing to scientific articles that do not in any way shape or form suggest what you say they do. Doing so simply destroys the extremely limited credibility that you have.
She is a liar, I have been through these two science mag articles with her before. It appears that she simply read the titles and had no clue about the content of the papers

In her defence the titles do suggest that they represent creation and itís not really here fault that she is to dim witted to understand that what she is posting actually goes towards proving here case to be incorrect

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#63331 Dec 5, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
You have lost your evidence for intermediacy and you lot are still struggling.
If dinos had feathers and birds have feathers then feathers are not intermediate. That is one reason why Rhuben suggests that there was a common ancestor that was neither bird nor dino.
So feather were FIRST a dino trait, not a bird trait, so arch was not showing intermediate mic of dino and bird traits, it was showing more dino traits.
Look you struggler. Even the evolutionist himself states arch's traits are no longer intermediate because they have been found in dinos.
Feathers are no longer unique to birds and cannot be relied on. Flight never was as kitten said showing again what an unthinking looser you actually are.
Are you going to suck this up or will I repost the reseach and make a fool of you that way instead?
What about the fraud around the furcula?
Some dinosaurs had feathers and yes, an intermediate form would be expected to have them. So by definition they are an intermediate trait. Flight is not necessarily an intermediate, if the first birds did not fly then of course its ancestors would not have flown either. But assuming birds flew then yes, flight would also be an intermediate trait.

See the problem is that our way of dividing animals is partly based upon the false idea of "kinds". Evolution is a gradual process so there are never any hard boundaries. There is no definite point where you say, this is a bird and this is a dinosaur. That is why many scientists now have two branches of dinosaurs those that evolved into birds and are still alive today and those that did not and died out. The avian dinosaurs are a bit more interesting to many since they want to track exactly where birds came from.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#63332 Dec 5, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Insects definitely fly. They generate lift, they can fly in no wind from a low spot to a higher spot. Pterodactyls flew. The rest glide, so far. In a few million years some of those may have moved on to flight too. There is more than one road to flight. Mav does not seem to realize that traits are not exclusive. Just because one group of animals has a trait does not mean that others can't have the same trait too.
I asked about mammals specifically. ;)

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#63333 Dec 5, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you STILL trying to defend that unbelievable bit of trash. Boy, your sources must be awfully dear to you. If I find I have been quoting trash I apologize to people for using that source and never use it again.
One more time. Did you read Kong's article. I still have it handy:
http://paleodb.org/cgi-bin/bridge.pl...
In four short words they said: This is crap! Hey, I just did it in three. Of course their words were rather all scientfical weren't they. It sounded so much better when they said it:
"Preservation: original phosphate, anthropogenic"
Or in short: Maz is full of crap.
The link is useless and does not identify what it has dated.

As I said the land form is over 290myo and numerous stories around the whale bones have been invented to save the evolutionary day.
This is the article abstrats of the link cited.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j....

We know that the tectonic setting of Indiana has remained relatively stable for the last 650 million years because the rocks are still relatively flat and undisturbed. The rocks do however change in thickness across the state. This is because they were deposited in low spots called basins and over high spots called arches . Indiana is bridged by an arch that stretches from the southeast corner of the state to the northwest corner. This arch is called the "Kankakee" arch and is a gentle bend or curve in the bedrock. This arch separates two basins located in the northeast and southwest portions of the state. These basins are round depressions or bowls in the bedrock that collected sediments as they were generated by marine animals or washed in from other sources. Within Indiana these two basins are called the Michigan and Illinois basins (see figure to the right).

The youngest bedrock formations that occur in Indiana are 290 million years old.

http://igs.indiana.edu/Bedrock/tectonic.cfm

I'm off for a couple days interstate with work. Catch you in a couple of days.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#63334 Dec 5, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Gah, I almost answered all these in a post, took me about 5 minutes to pull back into human thought mode. lol
Analogue computers, we need to explore that option so much right now, binary is just not as capable, imagine an analogue computing system using the speeds we have today. Instead of measuring in Ghz, we'd have to measure phones in Thz.
Sorry - lol

I only know of historical analogue computers but I imagine the technology is now available (or soon will be with adequate noise reduction) to take the analogue computer into the future. I suppose it would be a completely different concept of and usage of computing power.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#63335 Dec 5, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
As a Christian I believe hell is there. However scaring people to God doesn't work. Telling people about love and acceptance through Christ keeps people listening. Jesus/God want people to love them and I feel with live comes respect not fear.
Man does not go to heaven for good works. What the bible is saying there is how can God punish a man for a sin he didn't know he was guilty of? So for those who have never heard the truth of God they wouldn't know.
So where men don't know any better there is no sin.
Now I should say not everyone agrees with me here.
Ask yourself this:

How can any intelligent being punish a person for doubting something that has no solid or demonstrable evidence?

When you know the answer to that, then you will know why we are all discarding even your god.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#63336 Dec 5, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>Some dinosaurs had feathers and yes, an intermediate form would be expected to have them. So by definition they are an intermediate trait. Flight is not necessarily an intermediate, if the first birds did not fly then of course its ancestors would not have flown either. But assuming birds flew then yes, flight would also be an intermediate trait.
See the problem is that our way of dividing animals is partly based upon the false idea of "kinds". Evolution is a gradual process so there are never any hard boundaries. There is no definite point where you say, this is a bird and this is a dinosaur. That is why many scientists now have two branches of dinosaurs those that evolved into birds and are still alive today and those that did not and died out. The avian dinosaurs are a bit more interesting to many since they want to track exactly where birds came from.
No the problem is yours and the fact that you will not accept work from your very own reseachers.

There are no hard boundaries because many organisms share the same traits. That is why TOE relies on hand waving where it looks to similarity and ignores the differences, as I said.

Regardless of all this prattle, when it comes to birds I have modern bird footprints that predate arch so the discussion is mute.

I actually have evidence of modern birds dated to 212mya and arch had no reversed hallux and that my friend is another fact you can only deal with via your assumptive reasonings based on confusion.

See ya later!

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#63337 Dec 5, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
I asked about mammals specifically. ;)
Sorry, yes, as far as mammals go only bats fly. And thank you. You just reminded me of one more intermediate trait of archaeopteryx.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#63338 Dec 5, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
You can easily find the answer on google.
The core of computing is binary encoding. The premise is that each of the transistor switches is either on of off, represented by 1 or 0. Each bit is a BInary digiT.
Each of these switches is more-or-less useless on its own. However, you can arrange them in a sequence to get some logic.
Humans use hexadecimal representation as a form of shorthand for binary. That's a 16-base number system that goes from 0-9 then a-f, then rolls over from 0f to 10.
When you write a computer program, the compiler converts your code into opcode, a hex representation of the binary stream. The CPU interprets the opcodes and follows the program, manipulating bits in the accumulator section. In other words, it reads the binary code and uses that code to switch bits on and off in its "brain". The outgoing data is then sent to various locations in the computer, such as to the sound card, video card, hard disk, RAM, etc. You can do this by mapping each location to a virtual location in the computer. For example, you could set the address 0x2000 to be the sound card, and when you write the data 0x5e41 to 0x2000, the sound card will interpret that data and put out an analog signal to the speakers. You could also read the data at location 0x3000 to see what's on that location in the hard drive.
I know, I was asking you, not google, however did you actually understand what you plagiarised?

For example what is mean by setting address &h02000 as the sound card and why did I use &h0 instead of 0x

BTW hard drive address donít work in quite the same way, mainly because of the actual address space and they vary depending on the format, 0x3000 would be a bloody small hdd

And you have not answered my final question

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#63339 Dec 5, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry - lol
I only know of historical analogue computers but I imagine the technology is now available (or soon will be with adequate noise reduction) to take the analogue computer into the future. I suppose it would be a completely different concept of and usage of computing power.
The sheer power of such a machine, but yeah, the noise issue is one that has slowed it down considerably as well. Mostly it's that people who code, like me, have become comfortable with binary, it's easy and static so we don't have to worry about precision. Most people don't know enough about computers so they just shrug at the notion not even considering how much computing power such a thing would conceivably possess. If I had a lab for development I'd work on it myself, but alas, you need a bit more funding for hardware tech development than other sciences. I think that analogue computers are the next step, we've reached a ceiling in our digital tech and now we're just adding more processors to the machines instead of actually improving the processors. Oh, and we are improving the PCB layouts, using evolutionary algorithms, that's fun to watch in real time, the computers working out the best PCB layouts is a thing of poetry.

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#63340 Dec 5, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
She is a liar, I have been through these two science mag articles with her before. It appears that she simply read the titles and had no clue about the content of the papers
In her defence the titles do suggest that they represent creation and itís not really here fault that she is to dim witted to understand that what she is posting actually goes towards proving here case to be incorrect
I notice she didn't respond to what I said about her faulty interpretation. Funny how that works.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#63341 Dec 5, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
The link is useless and does not identify what it has dated.
As I said the land form is over 290myo and numerous stories around the whale bones have been invented to save the evolutionary day.
This is the article abstrats of the link cited.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j....
We know that the tectonic setting of Indiana has remained relatively stable for the last 650 million years because the rocks are still relatively flat and undisturbed. The rocks do however change in thickness across the state. This is because they were deposited in low spots called basins and over high spots called arches . Indiana is bridged by an arch that stretches from the southeast corner of the state to the northwest corner. This arch is called the "Kankakee" arch and is a gentle bend or curve in the bedrock. This arch separates two basins located in the northeast and southwest portions of the state. These basins are round depressions or bowls in the bedrock that collected sediments as they were generated by marine animals or washed in from other sources. Within Indiana these two basins are called the Michigan and Illinois basins (see figure to the right).
The youngest bedrock formations that occur in Indiana are 290 million years old.
http://igs.indiana.edu/Bedrock/tectonic.cfm
I'm off for a couple days interstate with work. Catch you in a couple of days.
Yes, uneducated people will make up stories. Educated people look at the facts and can tell what is or is not a "story". And it is not the "landform" that is 290 million years old, it is the strata of rock that the whale bones, and once again I emphasize the word bones, were buried in. The were found in unconsolidated sandstone. That means that the "rock" could be dug with a shovel. And no, there is bedrock that is older than 290 million years in the lower peninsula and I am betting much older than that in the upper peninsula.

Where are you getting your "facts" Maz?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#63342 Dec 5, 2012
Oh crap, I almost forgot the very important trait that KittenKoder's post reminded me of( sorry to end a sentence with a preposition, hey wait, now I didn't!)

Maz, did Apatosaurus have hollow bones?

Do birds have hollow bones?

Can you guess the next question?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#63343 Dec 5, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
No the problem is yours and the fact that you will not accept work from your very own reseachers.
There are no hard boundaries because many organisms share the same traits. That is why TOE relies on hand waving where it looks to similarity and ignores the differences, as I said.
Regardless of all this prattle, when it comes to birds I have modern bird footprints that predate arch so the discussion is mute.
I actually have evidence of modern birds dated to 212mya and arch had no reversed hallux and that my friend is another fact you can only deal with via your assumptive reasonings based on confusion.
See ya later!
And a lack of hard boundaries of course supports evolution. Too bad for you.

The lack of reverse hallux on Archy only shows that it was not what we would call a modern bird, but rather a "transitional form". Or are you that dense. If Archy had all bird features you would call it a modern bird as your cretinous allies have done for years. Now that it no longer has a reversed hallux it takes it out of birddom. Could you be more hypocritical?

I am sure that you will work on it.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#63344 Dec 5, 2012
Oops, Maz ran away for the day again.

Has anyone else noticed that she posts several long prepared rants at the start of each stay? I am betting she writes up several posts and saves them and then visits a series of sites like this one.

The gal must be a serial masochist

It also explains why she does not like to drop sources. If she dropped sources as the got debunked on various websites she would not be able to use the same long posts on each site. That is why she ignores when one of her sites is debunked and when it gets trashed as her whale story did by Kong's article she has a conniption fit.

So right now Maz is spending her allotted time on some other website tormenting other believers in sanity and logic.

Since: Sep 12

Fort Worth, TX

#63345 Dec 5, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>Ask yourself this:

How can any intelligent being punish a person for doubting something that has no solid or demonstrable evidence?

When you know the answer to that, then you will know why we are all discarding even your god.
My God does not require people to have proof. He requires faith which is cool because I don't have proof but I have tons of faith.
Kitten we have talked long enough for you to realize you won't be changing my mind. I realize I won't be changing yours. Therefore I respect your position on this I wish you would do the same.

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