Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#62806 Dec 3, 2012
Orriapa paquia wrote:
<quoted text>
You are quite confused, the protocell website you quoted specifically says its an idea, a conjecture, there is no reference to any scientific experiment in that website. They reference another article from Irene Chen which is an essay (hypothesis, story, account, parable, etc) not a scientific experiment detailing anything testable. This is from six years ago in 2006. Do you have anything new that i can look at?
If you believe in evolution there is no other way around DNA. You may choose to ignore it but that does not make it go away.
You cannot choose to believe in evolution and ignore DNA.
Why so? DNA IS THE PRINCIPLE WAY BUT WHICH HEREDITARY TRAITS ARE PASSED ON FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION.
I am sorry to upset you but you have a blind belief in a theory that you cannot prove nor that you can explain or that you understand. You state scientific evidence but provide none.
I dont believe that Richard Dawkins is what he claims to be but as a proponent of evolution he is at least right when posed with the same question about DNA: his answer "i dont know how the first cell came about and nobody else does, we believe it may have been planted by aliens" (paraphrase)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =9M_ZF8r5e7wXX
Ill be glad to discuss any scientific evidence with you. You still though need to look into DNA theory for yourself and see that evolutionists claims dont match up.
Perhaps you don't know what conjecture means. Or you did not understand that website. Much of the work HAS been done, not all of it has been done.

And no, knowledge of where DNA comes from is not needed for the theory of evolution.

Here is an analogy that should be simple enough even for you. Think of evolution as a trip through history. Now let's compare it to an actual trip. Say that you are making a trip across the country. It starts somewhere on the West Coast. Maybe Seattle, maybe L.A., we don't know. We know that it did go through Chicago and we know where the trip went to pretty much from there. Is it necessary to know where the trip went before Chicago to know where the trip went after Chicago?

Acquiring DNA is our Chicago. That is where the theory of evolution starts from, we don't need to know where the trip went before Chicago now, do we.
Anonymous

UK

#62807 Dec 3, 2012
A question often asked by scientists but which is physically impossible to answer is what level of consiousness is required for a quantum state to break down into one particular reality, does it need to be a human mind observing or would that of a slug suffice, this is something schrodenger wondered when he hypothesised his famous schrodengers cat thought experiment, I probably think to much about these conundrums than is healthy LOL

Since: Sep 12

Hurst, TX

#62808 Dec 3, 2012
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>As long as you understand it to be "your" truth, not THE Truth!
It is the truth you don't have to like it nor do you have to comment on it.
If it walks like a duck sounds like a duck looks and smells like a duck it a very young dinosaur? NO IT'S A DUCK! If what I posted doesn't sound like the world we live in to you it's because it's talking about you.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#62809 Dec 3, 2012
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm thinking that you're reinventing your avatar, and that's it. Probably why you chose something from Avatar.
Evolution is a passive process. You keep wording it as if it's an active process. It's not. Saying so, loudly won't change the facts. Evolution is a process that is acted upon living creatures. The only way to describe or demonstrate it is by observing the past, not predicting the future.
"Proof" is an illogical interpretation of the phenomena.
I'm reinventing my avatar? what's that supposed to mean?

So we cannot predict the future by observing the past? That's actually hard to believe especially in science.
Orriapa paquia

Lubbock, TX

#62810 Dec 3, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you don't know what conjecture means. Or you did not understand that website. Much of the work HAS been done, not all of it has been done.
And no, knowledge of where DNA comes from is not needed for the theory of evolution.
Here is an analogy that should be simple enough even for you. Think of evolution as a trip through history. Now let's compare it to an actual trip. Say that you are making a trip across the country. It starts somewhere on the West Coast. Maybe Seattle, maybe L.A., we don't know. We know that it did go through Chicago and we know where the trip went to pretty much from there. Is it necessary to know where the trip went before Chicago to know where the trip went after Chicago?
Acquiring DNA is our Chicago. That is where the theory of evolution starts from, we don't need to know where the trip went before Chicago now, do we.
So your answer is an analogy of chicago?
I thought evolutionists were about quoting science and evidence?
I tell you repeatedly you have no evidence to show on the origin of life/cell to support evolution which is key to evolution and your answer is that it just happened? You give a website reference with no scientific experiments on it just essays and theories???

Science is about facts you can prove or have a body unequivocal body of evidence, not about conjectures.

So if you cant provide science or evidence what is the difference between your beliefs and creationists then?

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#62811 Dec 3, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
That's all you say: garbage?
You have valid source to show me? Where are you getting your real science info? The four horsemen?
Yeah, creationism is total garbage. It cannot produce new knowledge, testable hypotheses or new technology.

“NOTHING GOOD EVERY CAME OUT OF”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

West Plains

#62812 Dec 3, 2012
straa wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolution has been proven beyond any doubt to me, I don't share Charles beliefs, but he has the right to air them as we do
I don't disagree with you on that, but are you saying you don't see the flaws in what he wrote or the absurdity. It isn't even that he makes flawed and absurd statements, it is that he fully supports them as complete and factual truth.

Are we not allowed to comment on that or remark on the absurdity. Can he be rude and we are supposed to take it. Are you the police on here. Are you monitoring, policing and sensoring our dialogue? We are both from a liberal democracy, shouldn't I be able to make my discussion robust where it is required?

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#62813 Dec 3, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I haven't but it makes sense. Take the gene that causes sickle cell anemia. And genes are more than just dominant and recessive, like most early discoveries it does not quite tell the whole story. If you have one of the sickle cell genes it increases your resistance to the malaria parasite. If you have two it increase, but does not guarantee, that you will get sickle cell anemia. When this mutation first appeared it greatly increased the survivability of people with a drawback. Too "much" of the gene could kill you. The population has slowly been changing with the sickle cell prone not reproducing or being less successful in raising their children and their numbers have slowly been going down. The recessive nature of the gene let it do its good work while the population as a whole adjusted to its bad effects.
I actually am doing some work on a gene that is involved in malaria defense in some populations. Another friend of mine is working on G6PD in an indigenous group in Thailand.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#62814 Dec 3, 2012
AustinHook wrote:
Regards the newgeology.us site
<quoted text>
Didn't seem to me to be total garbage. I only took a quick superficial look, but even if it were all just crafty misdirection, it sure would be a good test for anyone who thought they had understood evolutionary theory, to find out if they really understood it. Wish I had time for it.
You want to learn more about evolution or more about how creationists misunderstand it?

If you want to learn science, read science. Creationists aren't giving you science information, they're giving you religious information.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#62815 Dec 3, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
To simplify its easier for a evo to call you stupid or ignorant than admit they don't know.
I did not call you stupid. In point of fact, we are all ignorant about almost everything. I happen to know more about biological science then you do. That's not an insult unless your measure of a person is based on their ability to understand biological science.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#62816 Dec 3, 2012
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
This article speaks briefly to this:
http://news.yahoo.com/cognitive-big-bang-disc...
"(Normally, if a mutation crops up in a gene that's critical to an animal's survival, evolution will weed out that animal, which usually means very little change occurs in critical genes. But if there are two copies of a gene, then the animal has a spare functioning copy, which allows those genes to rack up more mutations both beneficial, harmful and neutral without reducing survival fitness.)"
Thanks!

I think you'll enjoy this:

http://evmedreview.com/...

I subscribe to this:

http://evmedreview.com/

It's free!

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#62817 Dec 3, 2012
Orriapa paquia wrote:
<quoted text>
So your answer is an analogy of chicago?
I thought evolutionists were about quoting science and evidence?
I tell you repeatedly you have no evidence to show on the origin of life/cell to support evolution which is key to evolution and your answer is that it just happened? You give a website reference with no scientific experiments on it just essays and theories???
Science is about facts you can prove or have a body unequivocal body of evidence, not about conjectures.
So if you cant provide science or evidence what is the difference between your beliefs and creationists then?
Yes, you were too stupid to understand the straight forward truth so I tried to teach you with an analogy.

It seems even that was below your comfort level intelectually.

And please, don't try to change the argument after the fact.

You kept saying a stupid thing, that we had to understand where DNA came from to understand evolution. I kept correcting you and pointing out that was not the fact. You kept whining on so I showed you what work has been done on abiogenesis and you lied about the site.

Then you went back to your old busted DNA claim and I tried to make it as simple as possible for you to understand.

How simple do I have to make this for you?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#62818 Dec 3, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I actually am doing some work on a gene that is involved in malaria defense in some populations. Another friend of mine is working on G6PD in an indigenous group in Thailand.
Well then you know far more about this than I ever will. I just thought the malaria mutation was a very good example of the article you brought up.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#62819 Dec 3, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you don't know what conjecture means. Or you did not understand that website. Much of the work HAS been done, not all of it has been done.
And no, knowledge of where DNA comes from is not needed for the theory of evolution.
Here is an analogy that should be simple enough even for you. Think of evolution as a trip through history. Now let's compare it to an actual trip. Say that you are making a trip across the country. It starts somewhere on the West Coast. Maybe Seattle, maybe L.A., we don't know. We know that it did go through Chicago and we know where the trip went to pretty much from there. Is it necessary to know where the trip went before Chicago to know where the trip went after Chicago?
Acquiring DNA is our Chicago. That is where the theory of evolution starts from, we don't need to know where the trip went before Chicago now, do we.
What? lol

DNA is our CHI long time AGO. hahahaha!

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#62820 Dec 3, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
So why don't we just cut the BS and point out something from the article that you think is not true and correct it with scientific facts. Just one at least?
This is a problem with that article. It admits that bacteria evolve but claims that "macro evolution" never happens. Their sentence is: "But they never turn into anything new. They always remain bacteria."

They subsequently write " In the lab, fruit flies are studied under every conceivable condition. There is much variation in fruit flies. There are many mutations. But they never turn into anything new. They always remain fruit flies."

That's a poor way to think about it since bacteria have evolved into new species of bacteria in the lab and fruit flies have evolved into new species of fruit flies. Also, there was an experiment done in 1972 that produced an entire new species out of two species - an example of coevolution - an amoeba and it's bacterial parasite were housed together for 5 years. The two merged and became symbiotic.

Anyways, it's a poor way to think because it's not specific. Science requires the use of very specific language to understand what's going on. When an E. coli strain in the lab evolves the ability to digest citric acid, that's a brand new species. No E. coli in nature can digest citric acid.

That's how creationists are confused - they use general categories of species rather that more specific determinants. In doing that, they erase information and make biological science silly and unknowable.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#62821 Dec 3, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
So why don't we just cut the BS and point out something from the article that you think is not true and correct it with scientific facts. Just one at least?
Here's another false sentence:

"Believing in beneficial mutations is like believing a short-circuit in the motherboard of your computer could improve its performance."

Mutations don't work like short-circuits, so presenting this as some kind of analogy is poor and misleading.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#62822 Dec 3, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
You want to learn more about evolution or more about how creationists misunderstand it?
If you want to learn science, read science. Creationists aren't giving you science information, they're giving you religious information.
Hey, I want to learn more about how creationist misunderstand it.

Don't start just yet, I am going to the liquor store to get a couple of liters of Bourbon to help with the thinking process. I figure if you want to think like a creationist you need to drink like a creationist.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#62823 Dec 3, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
It is the truth you don't have to like it nor do you have to comment on it.
If it walks like a duck sounds like a duck looks and smells like a duck it a very young dinosaur? NO IT'S A DUCK! If what I posted doesn't sound like the world we live in to you it's because it's talking about you.
Then, if you don't mind, it sounds like you have a smug belief that your gut feelings are far superior to anyone elses feelings or rational observations. There's no great truth in that kind of "street smarts". It's old-news bigotry.

Since: Sep 12

Hurst, TX

#62824 Dec 3, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>I did not call you stupid. In point of fact, we are all ignorant about almost everything. I happen to know more about biological science then you do. That's not an insult unless your measure of a person is based on their ability to understand biological science.
Calm down I didn't say you called me stupid. My post was half joking a bit of a jab at you evos for never just saying "i don't know" that's all it's ok.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#62825 Dec 3, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Well then you know far more about this than I ever will. I just thought the malaria mutation was a very good example of the article you brought up.
It is, it is!

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Weird Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
What are you thinking about now? (Jun '10) 8 min -Lea- 21,397
Ebola in America 19 min Kelly in Black 39
What song are you listening to right now? (Apr '08) 25 min Laura french 147,750
Add a word and drop a word (Jan '14) 30 min Vector aka Victor... 1,424
Make A Sentance out of a 5 letter word. (Nov '09) 31 min Vector aka Victor... 29,551
Make a Story / 4 Words Only (Nov '08) 55 min Grace Nerissa 24,273
WHAT???? A NEW word game? FOUR WORDS (Sep '08) 2 hr Trouser Cough 40,330
Do you have a Topix crush? (Jun '11) 2 hr Heres lookin at y... 6,419
Missing posters.. (Jan '14) 4 hr SLY WEST 33

Weird People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE