Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#62466 Dec 2, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
It is no more transitional than a cat is between a mouse and a dog.
Arch is no more transitional than a bat is between a mouse and a bird, or a flying fish is between a fish and a bird.
Many non birds ha
The conclusion you skip over is quite telling:

"Creationists will doubtlessly pounce upon this story and quote-mine articles for supposedly damning phrases. But revisions and uncertainities like this are to be expected. As with all big evolutionary shifts, there wasn’t a simple linear route from dinosaur to bird. Instead, animals at the time developed a whole range of different body shapes that were eventually tested and winnowed by natural selection.“There were lots of experimental trials”, says Xu.

The fossil record is full of these failed experiments and evolutionary dead-ends, all preserved alongside the success stories that eventually gave rise to modern species. This makes it very difficult to construct a robust family tree. Witmer sums it up brilliantly in the conclusion of his editorial:

“Just as Xiaotingia moved Archaeopteryx out of the birds, the next find could move it back in — or to somewhere else within this fuzzy tangled knot that makes up the origins of birds and bird-like dinosaurs. That said, during this sesquicentennial anni­versary of Archaeopteryx, which is being honoured with exhibits and commemorative coins, the bitter irony may be that it may not have been the bird we’ve always thought it was. But Archaeopteryx will remain an icon of evo­lution, perhaps even more so now, providing compelling evidence that, as we should expect, evolutionary origins are rather messy affairs.”"

The thing is, you don't seem to understand how science works (it's not dogmatic), nor how speciation works, no how species are interconnected through common descent.

So you make all kinds of strange claims.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#62467 Dec 2, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Who are you? Obviously another evolutionist that likes to offer hubris when they are gobsmacked. Is this too hard for you to understand?
1. Creationist predictions are continuing to be validated with the expectation that 100% of the genome likely to be functional. This validation comes after evolutionists shoved junk dna down creos throats as proof TOE was true, there was no designer and creos were idiots. Now they scurry off in shame, suggest TOE never could make a prediction around non coding dna but creos can clearly see just whom the idiots really are!
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketsc...
So...what's the Creationist claim? That 100% of the genome is functional?

If, by functional, you mean "has an affect on the body it resides in," you'd be wrong about that claim. So the claim is incorrect.

There was nothing in that article that supported Creationism one bit - it was an update of our understanding of the genome and a debate about how it works. The ENCODE people argued that the vast majority of the genome has some function, while others pointed out that pseudogenes and insertion events do not (and they're correct about that).

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#62468 Dec 2, 2012
MazHere wrote:
Oh BTW Subduction Zone, only a confused evolutionist would seriously ask a creationist to find a transitional fossil when we assert that there are no transitional fossils in between major families and never were, silly!
We see many designs shared by non closely related species. It is straw grabbing to turn them into a mathematical algorithm and simply pick which one is closer based on the assumption something has to be.
Arch is NOT transitional to anything. It is a dinosaur that has the same traits as other dinosaurs. If dinos had feathers then feathers are not an avian trait, are they, and neither is a wish bone? Arch does not have a reversed hallux and therefore is not a bird. It is simple for me and only confusing to evolutionists because they are desperate to invent their own evidence.
If you're asking for a more stupid and misrepresented fossil I am happy to comply!
All individuals are transitions. All fossils are transition fossils.

Since: Sep 12

Hurst, TX

#62469 Dec 2, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>Thanks! That works.

I've read the Bible 4 times, just so you know. I've largely forgotten it in specifics but for the major themes.

So faith is for you a connection to God, something that monitors your moral behavior. It sounds almost like an instinct that if you're paying attention (perhaps through prayer?) you can lead a spiritual life?

How am I doing?
Not instinct. Instinct is where someone runs a traffic light and hits your car your first reaction is to smash that twerps head with a bat. The spirit drives me to forgive and ignore my nature. Faith tells me God is there even though I haven't seen.

Since: Sep 12

Hurst, TX

#62470 Dec 2, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>The conclusion you skip over is quite telling:

"Creationists will doubtlessly pounce upon this story and quote-mine articles for supposedly damning phrases. But revisions and uncertainities like this are to be expected. As with all big evolutionary shifts, there wasn’t a simple linear route from dinosaur to bird. Instead, animals at the time developed a whole range of different body shapes that were eventually tested and winnowed by natural selection.“There were lots of experimental trials”, says Xu.

The fossil record is full of these failed experiments and evolutionary dead-ends, all preserved alongside the success stories that eventually gave rise to modern species. This makes it very difficult to construct a robust family tree. Witmer sums it up brilliantly in the conclusion of his editorial:

“Just as Xiaotingia moved Archaeopteryx out of the birds, the next find could move it back in — or to somewhere else within this fuzzy tangled knot that makes up the origins of birds and bird-like dinosaurs. That said, during this sesquicentennial anni­versary of Archaeopteryx, which is being honoured with exhibits and commemorative coins, the bitter irony may be that it may not have been the bird we’ve always thought it was. But Archaeopteryx will remain an icon of evo­lution, perhaps even more so now, providing compelling evidence that, as we should expect, evolutionary origins are rather messy affairs.”"

The thing is, you don't seem to understand how science works (it's not dogmatic), nor how speciation works, no how species are interconnected through common descent.

So you make all kinds of strange claims.
Hold on I thought some meteorite hit the earth and killed the dinosaurs it the dinos were dead how'd they evolve?

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#62472 Dec 2, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
Hold on I thought some meteorite hit the earth and killed the dinosaurs it the dinos were dead how'd they evolve?
Forgive me for outlining this in basic.

1. all species are constantly evolving. No species is not evolving - evolution is constant.

2. Long before the meteor, dinosaurs had evolved into several phyogeneies (evolutionary lineages). The avians were one of these - and the only lineage from the dinosaurs to survive. The other ones all went extinct.

I'm not a dinosaur expert, I really can't speak to dinos. But I'm pretty sure dinos were starting to have problems before the meteor - at least, Baker presents a pretty compelling argument for that.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#62473 Dec 2, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
Not instinct. Instinct is where someone runs a traffic light and hits your car your first reaction is to smash that twerps head with a bat. The spirit drives me to forgive and ignore my nature. Faith tells me God is there even though I haven't seen.
Ah, ok. So faith acts as a moral guide, controlling selfish responses?

Since: Sep 12

Hurst, TX

#62474 Dec 2, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>Forgive me for outlining this in basic.

1. all species are constantly evolving. No species is not evolving - evolution is constant.

2. Long before the meteor, dinosaurs had evolved into several phyogeneies (evolutionary lineages). The avians were one of these - and the only lineage from the dinosaurs to survive. The other ones all went extinct.

I'm not a dinosaur expert, I really can't speak to dinos. But I'm pretty sure dinos were starting to have problems before the meteor - at least, Baker presents a pretty compelling argument for that.
Why is I don't know such a hard thing for evos to say?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#62475 Dec 2, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is I don't know such a hard thing for evos to say?
When we don't know we admit it. That is quite unlike creationists. They are outright wrong and won't admit it.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#62476 Dec 2, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is I don't know such a hard thing for evos to say?
Well, in that case, I do know. Avians evolved from one branch of dinosaurs well before the meteor. If I remember correctly, it was some 90 million or more years before the meteor hit.

So that answers your question "how did dinos evolve into birds if they were wiped out by the meteor." The answer is "they did so before the meteor hit."

How does that not answer your question? Why should I subsequently stick "I don't know" here?

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#62477 Dec 2, 2012
60s chic wrote:
<quoted text>
True, it was either sit in a cave and not advance forward, or explore, invent and create, but with risks. There are risks everything. We have a brain and if there is a God, his intention was for us to use it. Maybe that was the only way he could "see us through", as you say. Sitting and waiting for something miraculous to happen isn't going to help anyone. Think about the most innocent of our society - children. Many suffer, are abused, starve and die each day. It is a blessing that there are good people who help the less fortunate, but many of the children still slip through the cracks. Also the risk of not making new discoveries to try and correct past mistakes, would not lead to newer better alternatives. If vaccines hadn't been invented a hundred years ago, many people wouldn't have survived. I suppose some would say that would be natural selection, but it's possible that those diseases could wiped out an entire population, if not for vaccines. There have been a lot of great discoveries that have helped mankind. Unfortunately, it's possible there may be evil and sinister intentions behind some experiments.
True. And that is Satan at work. Satan is actually controlling majority of people in the world, either directly or indirectly.
In each era actually, we have different ages, during the biblical times, it was the iron or bronze age era. A good example is King Solomon. His wealth was immeasurable.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#62478 Dec 2, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>Why is I don't know such a hard thing for evos to say?
"I don't know" is pretty much equal to "I gave up". Imagine that world where scientist just gave up.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#62479 Dec 2, 2012
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
Sitting and waiting for a miracle is what Charles does.
You can talk about miracles all you want. Charles talks about the miracle of God all day long... because we all die! Go figure!
His shaman show is low budget, but if you enjoy wasting the day sharing platitudes, making sweeping assumptions about your God, the mighty Voltron, and generally tuning out people with simplistic dialog that resembles to an old Gumby episode, Charles is your guy! For a little diversity, MazHere plays a good Nopey but you really have to sort through a lot of irrelevant links, and she's a bit of a potty-mouth.
A simple answer to you. You or any one else can not fight God.
Go on with your potty mouth.(Shrug).

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#62480 Dec 2, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> True. And that is Satan at work. Satan is actually controlling majority of people in the world, either directly or indirectly.
In each era actually, we have different ages, during the biblical times, it was the iron or bronze age era. A good example is King Solomon. His wealth was immeasurable.
Uhm...you believe satan is controlling most people in the world?

For real? You seriously believe that?

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#62481 Dec 2, 2012
60s chic wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol, oh I know. It's futile to argue about religion anyway. We're all opinionated to some degree. I gave up mainstream religion a long time ago; too many hypocrites in my church who didn't practice what they preached. I have nothing against anyone practicing a religion or what they choose to believe, though, nor am I'm trying to imply I'm an atheist either. Charles is only exercising his free speech right and it's interesting to get into the mix. He's not going to completely agree with everything I say, anymore than I am with him. I like reading what he has to say though and he's probably a very decent man, too. If everyone were the same or thought exactly alike, it would be a very boring world.
You are right. It is true that most christians don't practice what they preach.
For me, though, no one is truly perfect, except Jesus christ, i try my best every day to follow the teachings of the holy bible, because that is the written word of God.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#62482 Dec 2, 2012
Colorado Chick wrote:
<quoted text> Gotta HAVE styro , plastic and paper protects for YOUR take-out food purchases...DON'T YA!!!
Ofcourse, but if the ozone layer's depletion widens, it will affect humans, plants and the entire ecosystem. Think!
A beautiful day for Colorado in particular and the US in general.
Top of the day.

Since: Sep 12

Hurst, TX

#62483 Dec 2, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>Uhm...you believe satan is controlling most people in the world?

For real? You seriously believe that?
From the Christian prospective he's right.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#62484 Dec 2, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Uhm...you believe satan is controlling most people in the world?
For real? You seriously believe that?
Spiritually and theologically speaking, there are two life examiners for humans, they God and Satan.
But due to the love of earthly things like money, jewelleries, etc, many people have directly or indirectly embrace Satan, even in the church. A good example is the Illuminati, etc.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#62485 Dec 2, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Spiritually and theologically speaking, there are two life examiners for humans, they God and Satan.
But due to the love of earthly things like money, jewelleries, etc, many people have directly or indirectly embrace Satan, even in the church. A good example is the Illuminati, etc.
God and Satan are two sides of the same coin

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#62486 Dec 2, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Uhm...you believe satan is controlling most people in the world?
For real? You seriously believe that?
um I don't think so. more like ET's from another planet.

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