Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 223358 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#62515 Dec 3, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, proto-reptiles from ancient amphibians; early mammals from ancient reptiles. The evidence is in the fossil record and DNA.
No, you are not some kind of hybrid.
Please explain what evidence you have in DNA. Sharing the same DNA with other organisms doesn't provide hard evidence for evolution. What part of our genetic code says a mutation from one species to another is possible? No matter what organism you find on this planet, there will be similarities because we are creatures of this planet. Don't you think the food chain may very well explain why we are made of the same stuff. You are what you eat. hehe.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#62516 Dec 3, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Truth is relative. The bible has many lies as well, because the common man were not allowed to know the real truth, only the elites. The bible does serve a purpose though, that I'd give you. But the scriptures have too many hidden meanings.
God for you. He wants us to seek and search for him, before we can discover him.
The same with our mineral or material resources.
60s chic

Allentown, PA

#62517 Dec 3, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> You are in a way right. But we have seen cases of good people later turning turning to bad people, this is not ordinary, but spiritual, and that is Satan and his cohorts.
How can a man sleeps with his own daughter, do you think that is ordinary?
Didn't Lot sleep with his daughters, even impregnating some of them? There can are bad influences in a person's life that can sway a person to do bad things, that and a lack of conscience. It depends how mentally stable and strong someone is and whether they care enough to have respect and compassion for those around them. Severely abused and traumatized children who are products of bad parenting and surroundings are an example of cause and effect. They are the segment of our society that eventually end up in the legal system. Not the work of Satan or devil, but man's inhumanity to his own kind. The Catholic church doesn't even acknowledge Satan as the cause of so called demonic possessions. It's all a matter of psychiatry - mental issues and what's in a person's mind. if the brain is not healthy or functioning normally, then there's no telling exactly how that person will act or react. Satan and demonic possession belong in the dark ages when people weren't knowledgeable about diseases, deformities and mental illness. Witchcraft and the Salem witch trials is an example of how people were accused of being witches and doing the devil's work. But it was man's greed, his own evil doings that resulted in the deaths of scores of innocent people, and all to take their land.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#62518 Dec 3, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't you see how strange it is that we have morphed from fishes to amphibians to reptiles to mammals even if it happened in a span of millions of years?
We didn't. No particular individual did. Gene pools change over time in response to environmental pressures.

No, I don't see it that strange. What would be strange would be the absence of evolution.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#62519 Dec 3, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> God for you. He wants us to seek and search for him, before we can discover him.
The same with our mineral or material resources.
Ya but the only thing I found is myself, silly me. There is not one true God. Remember, polytheism came first before monotheism. I don't know where I'm going with this but the point is, the bible is not the whole truth.

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#62520 Dec 3, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
Really because I can. You guys post opinions and theory and I laugh and post mine. Than you guys shoot a couple insults than post yours. I do this for fun. Sometimes you guys say something that makes a good point than 2 min on google and their is another theory showing why yours is no good. I do not care where we came from I believe the bible. I have absolute faith in it. Until God himself hops in the his godmobile rides down here and says hey man that whole bible thing was a joke to see how many people would take it serious. I'm going to stick with it.
Why does my belief bother you?
Why if God doesn't exist do you feel the need to debate it?
Do you spend as much time trying to prove that other "fairy tales" don't exist or does the Christian God hold a special place for your "debunking" debate sessions?
Do we have "In Thor We Trust" printed on our money?

Disregard the fact that that would be awesome, and understand the underlying point that I am making.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#62521 Dec 3, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Please explain what evidence you have in DNA.
I don't really work in those fields. Use google scholar, look it up.
Sharing the same DNA with other organisms doesn't provide hard evidence for evolution.
It demonstrates shared lineages of decent. What else, other than evolution, produces phylogeny?
What part of our genetic code says a mutation from one species to another is possible?
Huh? Could you re-write that?
No matter what organism you find on this planet, there will be similarities because we are creatures of this planet. Don't you think the food chain may very well explain why we are made of the same stuff. You are what you eat. hehe.
Genes tend to be conserved throughout phylogeny. Lots of unrelated species have similar genes.

Mutation, however, is different. It is unpredictable and rare. The same kinds of mutations do not happen twice.

First, we worked out how species were related using development and morphology. Species that develop similarly (similar onset of organs and limbs, etc) and species that have similar morphology show evidence of relationship. Hence we know old world monkeys are different than new world monkeys, and that apes evolved from old world monkeys, for example.

Second, our relationships are almost 100% backed up by molecular data. When the molecular data disagree with the morphological placement of species, the molecular data are given precedent. So genetics rewrites how we understand species' relationships.

For example: all the great apes share certain kinds of mutations that are found in no other group. Some mutations that all great apes have they also share only with old world monkeys. So we are confident that great apes evolved from OWM. After the divergence of great apes from monkeys, monkeys went their own evolutionary path and picked up their own mutations - there are not found in the great apes, nor across the board in all OWM, but in their families.

I can explain further: Humans are more closely related to Pan than Gorilla. All three are equally related to Pongo. All four are equally related to all Old World Monkeys. Great apes and OWMs are all equally related to New World Monkeys. All apes and all monkeys are equally related to, say, all horses. This entire group - all mammals - are equally related to all birds.

Etc., etc. These divisions are well worked out and objectively accurate using DNA (mutations and genes).

So if you want to say life was Created, you have a lot of explaining to do. If you want to say that aliens did it, you have your work ahead of you.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#62522 Dec 3, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Ha! You ninja'd me!
It is my secret new stalking technique. Figure out what someone is going to say before they say it and use this old dilapidated software to post ahead of them.

Mu-ha-HA!

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#62523 Dec 3, 2012
60s chic wrote:
<quoted text>
Didn't Lot sleep with his daughters, even impregnating some of them? There can are bad influences in a person's life that can sway a person to do bad things, that and a lack of conscience. It depends how mentally stable and strong someone is and whether they care enough to have respect and compassion for those around them. Severely abused and traumatized children who are products of bad parenting and surroundings are an example of cause and effect. They are the segment of our society that eventually end up in the legal system. Not the work of Satan or devil, but man's inhumanity to his own kind. The Catholic church doesn't even acknowledge Satan as the cause of so called demonic possessions. It's all a matter of psychiatry - mental issues and what's in a person's mind. if the brain is not healthy or functioning normally, then there's no telling exactly how that person will act or react. Satan and demonic possession belong in the dark ages when people weren't knowledgeable about diseases, deformities and mental illness. Witchcraft and the Salem witch trials is an example of how people were accused of being witches and doing the devil's work. But it was man's greed, his own evil doings that resulted in the deaths of scores of innocent people, and all to take their land.
So, from your premise you are saying, Satan does not exist?
It is just human imagination, is that your stand?

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#62524 Dec 3, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
We didn't. No particular individual did. Gene pools change over time in response to environmental pressures.
No, I don't see it that strange. What would be strange would be the absence of evolution.
All organisms adapt to their environment but I find it impossible for one type of organism to evolve into another. Remember Aristotle's causality dilemma? did the chicken or the egg come first? Scientists to this day don't even have an answer to that let alone provide evidence for evolution.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#62525 Dec 3, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Ya but the only thing I found is myself, silly me. There is not one true God. Remember, polytheism came first before monotheism. I don't know where I'm going with this but the point is, the bible is not the whole truth.
Lets leave that for time and age to decide.
Top of the day.

“Be strong ...”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#62526 Dec 3, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
Well my bully of a God can sink your physics. Why if God can create everything in 6 days while you say billions of years can the same God beat mr Einsteins THEORY? All powerful God trumps super smart guy. I believe it was you who told me it isn't science fact until it can be tested as it is impossible for man to test infinite power it is just a very educated guess by a very smart man. Who by the way also believed in God.
Nope don’t work like that, you need proof, evidence, fact and that proof, evidence and fact must be falsifiable otherwise it is not science. I do however notice that you use science and the modern technology that science has born to decry science, very hypocritical of you.

You ain’t got squat but faith in a genocidal, child murdering apologist for rape and belief in bronze age magic,(oh yes, that’s more faith isn’t it) and faith don’t count in the real world

First look up the meaning of power – where does power come from? Energy, where does matter come from – energy. True that infinity by its very nature is impossible to measure however it also an impossibility to have something infinite (energy) within a finite sphere of that same material (the universe). You don’t rely seem to have got to grips with this whole infinity thing do you?

LYING for your god is typical of the crustrard of little intelligence. Who told you that Einstein believed in god? The same guy that told you about the bull in the babble was true?

Einstien thought the idea of god as childish –“I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one (Albert Einstein)

This joy is the feeling from which true scientific research draws its spiritual sustenance, but which also seems to find expression in the song of birds. To tack this feeling to the idea of God seems mere childish absurdity.(Albert Einstein, 1934)

In a letter to Joseph Dispentiere Einstien wrote - It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it

In his letter to Eric Gutkind, on January 3, 1954 Einstein wrote –…“The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this”…

Honey you can make up whatever crap you like but all you end up doing is making up crap and destroying you credibility at the same time

“First it steals your mind..”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#62527 Dec 3, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
I am glad you are gobsmacked and the best you can do is try to get me to spell woffle the way you would like. I am not refering to food. I am refering to my version of the manin gof woffle meaning unsupported rhetoric and hubris.
That was all these evos had to say to this post. How simple you all really are.
"Ignorance is not a good look Subby and Dan.
Here!!! I'll spoon feed you 2 a bed time story seeing as you can't find any evo evidence to support yourself with, Oh intelligencia!
Your evo researchers are suggesting that the Y chromosome will rot. It is deteriorating and is going to disappear. All the data suggest this.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/ ...
Here is bright spark that thinks he has found the answer to save you blokes.
Listen to this...
"Before they became specialized sex chromosomes, the X and Y were once an ordinary, identical pair of autosomes like the other 22 pairs of chromosomes humans carry. To maintain genetic diversity and eliminate potentially harmful mutations, autosome pairs swap genes with each other in a process referred to as "crossing over."
Roughly 300 million years ago, a segment of the X stopped crossing over with the Y, causing rapid genetic decay on the Y. Over the next hundreds of millions of years, four more segments, or strata, of the X ceased crossing over with the Y. The resulting gene loss on the Y was so extensive that today, the human Y retains only 19 of the more than 600 genes it once shared with its ancestral autosomal partner."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/02/ ...
None of the above sites are creationist in case some fool can't tell the difference.
Above is an example of an evo scratching around, ad nauseum, trying his darndest to keep his grant money by inventing some ridiculous scenario, he could not possibly know. He has saved you with twoddle about what he reckons happened 300 million years ago. He suggests that twoddle falsifies the many research articles that say the Y chromosome will one day disappear.
What do you lot reckon? Let me guess, you have to look your opinion up!
All the research suggests the genome is deteriorating. This again supports Sanford and creationism by suggesting life could not have been evolving for billions of years. Then evos have to run off with this data and rescussitate their theory by basically refuting their own initial data with any ridiculous bed time story any imaginative researcher can think up.
You evos handed us evidence in a silver platter to validate our predictions after all your quacking about junk dna and vestigial organs. You still like to quack about how great you all are. You're still wiping the egg off your faces from over 150 years of human knuckle walking ancestry, and now negative epistasis and genome deterioration.
I love it.
If this is what you evos are so proud of, you are welcome to it.
The fact is that these silly evo researchers keep on supporting creationism with their initial data at almost every turn and then have to scurry off and invent a silly story to offer up to save TOE from flopping.
Creationism is supported by data.
TOE is supported by hypothetical woffle.
I rest my case!"
Subduction Zone and Dan have been shown to be the empty vessels of pretense that actually are.
Correction: Waffle

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#62528 Dec 3, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't really work in those fields. Use google scholar, look it up.
<quoted text>
It demonstrates shared lineages of decent. What else, other than evolution, produces phylogeny?
<quoted text>
Huh? Could you re-write that?
<quoted text>
Genes tend to be conserved throughout phylogeny. Lots of unrelated species have similar genes.
Mutation, however, is different. It is unpredictable and rare. The same kinds of mutations do not happen twice.
First, we worked out how species were related using development and morphology. Species that develop similarly (similar onset of organs and limbs, etc) and species that have similar morphology show evidence of relationship. Hence we know old world monkeys are different than new world monkeys, and that apes evolved from old world monkeys, for example.
Second, our relationships are almost 100% backed up by molecular data. When the molecular data disagree with the morphological placement of species, the molecular data are given precedent. So genetics rewrites how we understand species' relationships.
For example: all the great apes share certain kinds of mutations that are found in no other group. Some mutations that all great apes have they also share only with old world monkeys. So we are confident that great apes evolved from OWM. After the divergence of great apes from monkeys, monkeys went their own evolutionary path and picked up their own mutations - there are not found in the great apes, nor across the board in all OWM, but in their families.
I can explain further: Humans are more closely related to Pan than Gorilla. All three are equally related to Pongo. All four are equally related to all Old World Monkeys. Great apes and OWMs are all equally related to New World Monkeys. All apes and all monkeys are equally related to, say, all horses. This entire group - all mammals - are equally related to all birds.
Etc., etc. These divisions are well worked out and objectively accurate using DNA (mutations and genes).
So if you want to say life was Created, you have a lot of explaining to do. If you want to say that aliens did it, you have your work ahead of you.
In theory, it could work. It doesn't matter how related we are to Pongo or New World Monkeys. I could say that we are also related to bananas.

Whether we were created or genetically engineered, we don't know. But my point here is, there is no evidence for TOE or creation.

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#62529 Dec 3, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Yes. God is a God of goodness. He loves good things, because he is good.
I love you.

“First it steals your mind..”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

..and then it steals your soul

#62530 Dec 3, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
What did my statement have anything to do with science? What I said is you don't believe one group of men because the bible is a religious book but you believe in evolution because its not but is still a bunch of people.
Exactly.

The very fact that you ask me a silly question like that, means that you do not understand how people interpret observations and draw conclusions.
60s chic

Allentown, PA

#62531 Dec 3, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> So, from your premise you are saying, Satan does not exist?
It is just human imagination, is that your stand?
What is there to prove or substantiate that such a being exists? Go ask a priest. They're trained to recognize psychiatric issues when it comes to demonic possession. Holy apparitions and visions are another matter, though. Seems that the Catholic church acknowledges and supports that kind of phenomenon. Too bad so many priests are child abusers and pedophiles. That vile behavior alone doesn't support their belief in a God.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#62532 Dec 3, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>I love you.
I love apple pi

“Be strong ...”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#62533 Dec 3, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe you. I'm sorry it happend however I can tell you true Christians don't do those things. True Christians aren't supposed to hurt people.
I don’t really care whether you believe me or not, but you fall into the tropical christian apology and then sloping shoulders routine, well done. You are talking absolute bollocks – First you don’t give a damn but I suppose it looks god for god points if you apologise for your fellow christians and second it is not up to you to pick and choose who will be Christian and who will not.

“True Christians aren't supposed to hurt people.”- Try telling such good christians as James Holmes, Anders Behring Beivik, Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic. What about the members of that good catholic organisation, the IRA or how about the NLFT, how about those good christians that intimidate and threaten outside abortion clinics. Tell me about the religious beliefs of the KKK or those dealers in misery, the eastern European human traffickers, the majority of all those caught and tried are christian. Hitler was christain, Stalin was raised christian and if he hadn’t taken over Russia he would have been a priest. Pol Pot spent 16 years of his life in a christian boarding school. The bible nurtures and promotes such behaviour.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#62534 Dec 3, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
In theory, it could work. It doesn't matter how related we are to Pongo or New World Monkeys. I could say that we are also related to bananas.
Whether we were created or genetically engineered, we don't know. But my point here is, there is no evidence for TOE or creation.
You are half right. There is no evidence for creation.

There is so much evidence for evolution that no serous scientist doubts it. In biology so many different aspects of the science show massive evidence for evolution. I am more of a geologist so I can only show you how the fossil record supports evolution and not creation.

How much science education have you had? I may be able to recommend some books or even videos for you.

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