Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.
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57,121 - 57,140 of 114,585 Comments Last updated 36 min ago
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#61134
Nov 26, 2012
 
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
You can't prove nor make a case against FAITH. The faithful have first hand knowledge of God.
No they don't. That's why it's called FAITH. If they had first hand knowledge of God it would simply be called KNOWLEDGE.

Fact of the matter is that no-one on Earth knows jack about God any more than anyone else does. And that's assuming that such an entity exists in the first place.
Bat Foy wrote:
Where people of science have faith in some real "smart" guy had an idea ok an educated guess but its still a guess.
And then those guesses are tested via the scientific method. When they start making successful predictions they become more than mere "guesses" and are the formation of a valid scientific theory. Kinda like gravity.
Bat Foy wrote:
When the bottom line is creos are waiting for the evos to just say "I really don't know how it all came about" and lets face it evos have an idea but they do not know. It is your faith in the collective knowledge of people smarter than you coming up with a claim they know but they really don't know either. No one knows the real process of the beginning. You think it is evolution and you guys think a lot.
No, evolution is not the beginning, not by a LONG shot. Evolution occurs only when there is life. Which has only been around these parts for 8-9 billion years AFTER the beginning of the universe.

But yes, we think a lot. Thinking is a GOOD thing. Thinking was banned by God, at least if one takes the Genesis story literally. Some are daft enough to do just that.
Bat Foy wrote:
Come off your pride and vanity accept that no one alive knows where it all started and accept the what if their was a creator.
Science accepts the "what if". It's just there is simply no scientific evidence for it yet. It is pride and vanity which causes ardent theists to demand people take their baseless claims seriously, despite the fact they are in no position at all to make such claims.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#61137
Nov 26, 2012
 
MazHere wrote:
Let's not forget that the physics of the Big bang do not make any sense and break down at the moment of the universes creation.
Yes, they break down as soon as it reaches singularity, but after just a short time the theory starts to work. Hence it correctly predicted CMBR to very particular amounts.

Your "theory" broke down before it even started.

"Jewmagic didit" doth not explain much.
MazHere wrote:
As more biased data came in they have has to now place the material universe on the outer edge of a bubble. That is the latest.
Of course BB in its entirety requires that 96% of the matter in the universe to be dark energy, a mysterious substance they know nothing about except it gives them an insertion value that helps some of the muddle but does not save the physics breaking down.
Many researchers are looking for new theories because they can see BB is problematic.
Except dark energy works. When dark matter and dark energy calculations are applied to astronomical phenomena, those phenomena are in the correct positions, while they are not under relativistic calculations.

Your calculations on the other hand, well... okay so Jewmagic is not even a calculation. Besides the universe is only 6,000 years old anyway so you have nothing to account for. Goddidit. The end. Period. HOTDAMM that's informative!
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#61138
Nov 26, 2012
 
MazHere wrote:
Here is some creationist work on genetic entropy.
Oh look! I see you're lying again. Tell us again what's the date of genomic critical mass? Come to think of it, what's the "scientific theory" of creationism?

(sound of crickets chirping)

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

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#61139
Nov 26, 2012
 
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
I have been speaking to evidence and you totally ignore it. There is fossil evidence in birds and whales that is more supportive of creation then TOE.

False. Birds have been around more than 225 million years (that is about 225 million years longer than most creotards thing the earth has been in existence).

Whales have know evolutionary pathway
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_cet...

[creationist posturing and empty assertions deleted at this point]
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text> Why don't you show us all how clever you are by refuting Sanford with new research in mind, seeing as you evos are too ignorant to realize that creos do actually have their own supports to present?

The new research you presented does not support creationism and does not undermine the ToE much less the proven fact of evolution. Demonstrated in previous posts.

Why can't creotards come up with any research to support their claims?
Why can't creotards develop a SCIENTIFIC theory of creationism?

The answer to the questions above is that it is much easier to go 'quack' than it is to have some substance to add to the discussion.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#61140
Nov 26, 2012
 
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
You are more of an idiot than I ever suspected. I have never stated that creation is the most popular theory at all.
So you create your own misinformation and then apply it.
Indeed if these stupid researchers had of listened to creos they would not have wasted over a decade just working out that non coding dna was functional. This may have allowed the advancement of genetic therapies to advance much quicker than they have by wasting time chasing ghosts and evolutionary assumptions.
It is not the theory of evolution that has provided a benefit to the population you silly one. The benefit has come from observed research in the here and now.
In fact some researchers that are also evos are suggesting that indeed some evolutionary assumptions around retrovirus have hindered medical advancement in the treatment of aides.
http://www.originofaids.com/
http://www.originofaids.com/articles/early.ht...
Oh, you're an AIDS denier too, just like that idiot Jonny Wells and his Moonie pals. So in other words you're in DIRECT support of pseudo-scientific claptrap that KILLS people. Way to go, Jenny McCarthy.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

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#61141
Nov 26, 2012
 
Constitution-lover wrote:
<quoted text>
Well you have made your choice. I gave you the truth and proof. If you deny it you deny God. that doesnt bode well for your eternal soul. Hell is a horrible place.

Send us a post card when you get there.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

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#61142
Nov 26, 2012
 
Constitution-lover wrote:
<quoted text>
I never lied. Creation by God is real. Anyone whos heart is open to God knows this.

You did lie. You claimed the Bible as an a priori fact. You claimed the Bible is literally true. As you cannot know these things for a fact and you claim you do you have therefore LIED.

Who is the author of all lies? Say hello to your new master.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#61143
Nov 26, 2012
 
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not a liar you dickweed.
Yes you are. You're a fundie.(shrug)

By the way, does Jesus approve of such venom?
MazHere wrote:
Just because a scientists still accept TOE when their assumptions and predictions are falsified does not mean I am a liar.
I thought you said evolution was non-falsifiable? Oh yeah, that was when you switched tables and claimed evolution was falsified - AFTER I gave you a bunch of potential falsifications - potential falsifications which you DID NOT meet by the way - and then claimed to have falsified evolution.

I expect to see your face on the cover of Time any day now...
MazHere wrote:
That fact that you have such a hard time accepting the obvious is a clear demonstration that you are the point leader here because you post the most woffle.
Yes, the obvious that you have proven everyone "wrong" with your amazing scientific JEWMAGIC. Well done Jenny.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

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#61144
Nov 26, 2012
 
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, but you are misrepresenting what KK said.
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
You said one truth in there. Evolution is still not the most popular theory, it's just provided us with the most benefits, your creationist mythology is actually more popular, and it's not produced anything beneficial. You just defeated your own argument, thank you for conceding that the theory of evolution is beneficial.
<quoted text>
Why not? First of all creotards only started saying this recently and second this is necessary science.
<quoted text>

The evolutionary facts are in the DNA. We can trace human lineage back just using DNA. genetic and other evolutionary medical breakthroughs have continued all along.
<quoted text>
False. Evolutionary medicine is the area(s) of medicine that are making the most breakthroughs.
<quoted text>
Blah, blah, blah.... assertion, assertion assertion and not a fact to be found.
<quoted text>
You will swallow any crap available, won't you. Another loonie who follows loonies.
"Leonard Horowitz is a former dentist, anti-vaxxer, promoter of various "natural cures," and self-publisher of books and pamphlets expressing such unfounded beliefs as that the AIDS and Ebola epidemics were intentionally caused by the U.S. government. "
http://www.skepdic.com/horowitz.html
The guy is a con artist.
I had no respect for you to begin with and you just lost the rest.(note the irony)
If you were not an evotard you would be actually able to mount appropriate responses to challenges instead of running off down the garden path of evasion and philosophical twoddle.

You think going quack quack 'con artist' solves the concern. This researcher is actually concerned about saving lives.

You quack quack about dna. Where were you when I was disussing the myth of 1%, junk dna, and the chasing of erv ghosts? What evidence in DNA are you talking about? Do you even understand what assumptions underlie genetic distancing in relation to deep ancestries? I doubt it.

You see evolutionists like to go all over the place but when refuted by providing some support they start to crap somewhere else. I responded to the claim that creos have no evidence and look at the stuggling and squirming, tail chasing and change of subjects.

I suppose you think researchers head for creationism just to purposely destroy their careers for no reason. One does not have to be a creo to have faith in God.

If you wofflers want to try to maintain that creos have NO support for their pardigm then you should be able to demonstrate for yourself and articulate what new research into epitasis does not support Sanford. Sanford provides some algorithmic magic just like evos can.

You should also be able to demonstrate how the reseachers that suggest that non coding dna is functional are idiots and wrong, because validation of predictions is a creationist supoport that evos are either too stupid to understand or too proud and ignorant to accept.

Since: Sep 12

United States

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#61145
Nov 26, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>Ah, now you're trying the projection angle. Okay, at the risk of being redundant here's the typical, and factual, reply:

We do say we don't know all the time, it's you who refuses to say you don't know, you fill in the blanks with "god dun it" and then give up, we push on making things like computers, cellphones, mp3 players, etc. and you just sit back, lazily enjoying the fruits of our effort. We're just asking for the check.
Stay with me here I didn't say anything about technology I pay to play and the idea that smart people don't believe in God is a bit insulting for everyone. A lot of very smart people believe in God. Than you say the fruits of "our" efforts so how many of those things did you invent or think up or fund? Taking credit by roping yourself in with the technology in crowd doesn't make you an inventor. No more than believing in God and creation makes me the author of the bible. By the way I remodel houses in my spare time preach and work as a maintenance man I'm not lazy nor did I invent the house.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#61146
Nov 26, 2012
 
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
SubductionZone, How does the overwhelmingly negative effects of epitasis support TOE better than John's theory of gentic entropy?
Because we're still alive.
MazHere wrote:
3. Selection can’t stave off deterioration—there are a number of reasons for this:
http://advindicate.com/...
Actually I am keen for some evo to evoke those long lost research skills and find the usual banter that evos offer to refute Sanford. All that woffle was before recent work actually supports Sanfords work again.
... except that Sanford is a reality-denying YEC. He refuses to take natural selection into account, genetics does not support his claims, does not support his timeframes, he can't account for the current diversification of the human population nor its continued increase in the face of what *should* be majority cancer cases across the globe, nor can he provide a date for genomic critical mass whereby the human genome is no longer viable. This may have something to do with the fact that critical mass had already been reached. Twice. Those fictions were called Genesis and Noah's Flood.

Interesting that anything you are unable to refute is only dismissed as "woffle".

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

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#61147
Nov 26, 2012
 
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
And how many times do I have to remind you that you are on a debating forum and are actually meant to be able to contruct an intelligent debate.
Even if you found the refute you would not understand it, nor be able to debate it because you have demonstrated you are an uneducated boofhead.

I call projection, luv.
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text> [non debate like emotional rant deleted from this point]......
Now, do please tell us how the research into epitasis does not support Sanfords work, if you can? Which, of course, my bet is you can't..

In the same way research into weggies does not support Sanfords work. Because it doesn't. Remember who has the responsibility in science. It is not the onus of the established theory to prove itself wrong, it is the responsibility of the new idea to prove it is supported better by the data and is able to make better predictions than the old theory. In other words don't try to pass the buck. Yes Sanford has been refuted. Actually he never had a leg to stand on. But that is not the point. It is UP TO YOU to provide EVIDENCE for creationism.

We are waiting.......
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#61148
Nov 26, 2012
 
Constitution-lover wrote:
Follow God or dont. You have free will. I wills erve God and spread his word.
If God exists there is no free will. If there is free will then God is not all knowing. If God is all knowing then there is no free will. Poor apologetics from creationists will now follow.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

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#61149
Nov 26, 2012
 
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
If you were not an evotard you would be actually able to mount appropriate responses to challenges instead of running off down the garden path of evasion and philosophical twoddle.
You think going quack quack 'con artist' solves the concern. This researcher is actually concerned about saving lives.
You quack quack about dna. Where were you when I was disussing the myth of 1%, junk dna, and the chasing of erv ghosts? What evidence in DNA are you talking about? Do you even understand what assumptions underlie genetic distancing in relation to deep ancestries? I doubt it.
You see evolutionists like to go all over the place but when refuted by providing some support they start to crap somewhere else. I responded to the claim that creos have no evidence and look at the stuggling and squirming, tail chasing and change of subjects.
I suppose you think researchers head for creationism just to purposely destroy their careers for no reason. One does not have to be a creo to have faith in God.
If you wofflers want to try to maintain that creos have NO support for their pardigm then you should be able to demonstrate for yourself and articulate what new research into epitasis does not support Sanford. Sanford provides some algorithmic magic just like evos can.
You should also be able to demonstrate how the reseachers that suggest that non coding dna is functional are idiots and wrong, because validation of predictions is a creationist supoport that evos are either too stupid to understand or too proud and ignorant to accept.

Sorry Luv, but you failed to address my points and just ran off with another litany of unsupported assertions and accusations. THEN you supported a known and debunked con artist.

You failed.

Remember it is YOUR responsibility to support creationism. WHO has the burden of proof in science? Evolution is the established science. You cannot wish it away or mumbo jumbo it.

Shit or get off the pot.

Let me know if you come up with anything supporting creationism. I won't hold my breathe.


Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, but you are misrepresenting what KK said.
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
You said one truth in there. Evolution is still not the most popular theory, it's just provided us with the most benefits, your creationist mythology is actually more popular, and it's not produced anything beneficial. You just defeated your own argument, thank you for conceding that the theory of evolution is beneficial.
<quoted text>
Why not? First of all creotards only started saying this recently and second this is necessary science.
<quoted text>

The evolutionary facts are in the DNA. We can trace human lineage back just using DNA. genetic and other evolutionary medical breakthroughs have continued all along.
<quoted text>
False. Evolutionary medicine is the area(s) of medicine that are making the most breakthroughs.
<quoted text>
Blah, blah, blah.... assertion, assertion assertion and not a fact to be found.
<quoted text>
You will swallow any crap available, won't you. Another loonie who follows loonies.
"Leonard Horowitz is a former dentist, anti-vaxxer, promoter of various "natural cures," and self-publisher of books and pamphlets expressing such unfounded beliefs as that the AIDS and Ebola epidemics were intentionally caused by the U.S. government. "
http://www.skepdic.com/horowitz.html
The guy is a con artist.
I had no respect for you to begin with and you just lost the rest.(note the irony)

The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#61150
Nov 26, 2012
 
Constitution-lover wrote:
<quoted text>
I would never lie. That is a sin. I have never been a jerk. I tell the truth and if that hurts you it is because that is your soul telling you to listen.
I am not hurt in any way. In fact it's also possible that (so far) you may not have lied, at least in your "heart". You HAVE been a jerk though and committed the grevious sin of hubris. However a number of your fellows HAVE lied, and in fact continue to do so. My guess is they have taken the advice of Martin Luther to heart.

This is because in our experience creationists who are faced with facts refuse to acknowledge them and force themselves to lie in order to preserve their religious outlook. After which they may pray that the Lord will forgive them for God is supposed to be a forgiving sort. Though while they assure themselves that the Almighty will SURELY forgive THEM, they still apparently have no problem in deciding that God will not forgive those who simply disagree with their baseless unprovable religious opinions.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#61151
Nov 26, 2012
 
Constitution-lover wrote:
<quoted text>
Open your heart is just an expression. It means to let God fill you with the Holy Spirit and love.
Yes, believe it or not I understood the expression. But the problem is that because you are relying on such non-accurate expressions and appeals to emotion, you are unable to demonstrate your claims in an objectively verifiable manner. A Hindu, Muslim, Sikh or Jew could also tell us to "see with our hearts" to claim that THEIR particular religious beliefs are the most valid in the world rather than yours. You believe in your religion. They believe in theirs in equal measure. I choose not to believe any and demand they provide an objective demonstration instead.

So far no religious person on the planet is capable of doing that.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#61152
Nov 26, 2012
 
MazHere wrote:
Why don't you show us all how clever you are by refuting Sanford with new research in mind
Uh, Jenny, NEW research was not needed. He was centuries out of date when he came up with it the first time.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#61153
Nov 26, 2012
 
Constitution-lover wrote:
<quoted text>
Lying is a sin. And all you just said is a lie.
Not at all. I didn't lie just because you disagree.

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm

So I see you're one of those NON-LITERAL "literalists" then.

It's funny, I am the only Biblical literalist I know. As most other creationists (save perhaps the Flat Earthers) reject the "Word of God".
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#61154
Nov 26, 2012
 
Constitution-lover wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible is the only proof you need. God gave you all you need.
The Bible is inaccurate. There was no global flood, humanity did not start with two humans 6,000 years ago, the Earth is not a flat square circle, and lizards, donkeys and bushes do not talk. The Bible is accurate in some places, inaccurate in others. It is therefore the product of local ignorant goat-herders who knew little of the world outside their own country, and not the "Word of God".

Since: Sep 12

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#61155
Nov 26, 2012
 

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Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>No, scientists don't have faith in any one person. The neat thing about science is that it is repeatable. If it is not repeatable it is not science. Christine M can find evidence for evolution in her home country, write an article about it, and Kitten Koder and I can jump into a plane at SeaTac, fly over the pole and look at her evidence for ourselves.

You have some guy who supposedly talked to a burning pile of sagebrush and you want us to believe that? Where is the sagebrush? Where is the fire?
Were any audio recordings made?

Why should we believe your fictional book rather than some other fictional book? What EVIDENCE do you have that supports your book? Don't you think that the braindead of other religions claim the exact same thing about their books of magic?
You're right! Moses was a few thousand year before flash drives. However you are asking me to take your word for that we come from monkeys because you did from some person who told you and so on and so on. I choose to have faith that God made us the way we are. Idk what went on before God made everything we see today. Like I said before I'm not so stupid as to deny dinosaurs the proof is there. I don't deny that new and interesting things are found every day. The bible says nothing about dinosaurs but it also says nothing about cell phones and cars. I don't think that information is needed to live a Godly life thats why it isn't there. I said all of that to say this faith is all the proof I need I don't need to know how. When I stand before God after he looks at my life's history and welcomes me home I will ask him how he did it. I will continue to serve my God in faith and first hand answered prayer. The amour of my prayers that have been answered are so far beyond mathematical probability I just don't question it anymore.

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