Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.
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56,941 - 56,960 of 114,528 Comments Last updated 32 min ago

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Since: Sep 11

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#60917
Nov 25, 2012
 
Maz, the reason no one is talking about "junk" dna is because no one cares. It's not an issue. You're making it into one, for some reason. Probably because, as has been demonstrated, you don't really understand any of this stuff so you cling to the one thing that you like to spam the most. You're making a strawman out of nothing, and claiming "victory" because no one cares about your strawman.

Hey, again, remember when you misunderstood the chromosome 2 issue so badly that you posted evidence for me? That was funny.

“cdesign proponentsists”

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Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

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#60918
Nov 25, 2012
 
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Poops!
They own it and they can not even speak it as a first language. Irony!
English is the first and native language of England unlike Germany( German).
I cannot believe that you are stupid enough to argue! LOL!

“Steaming hunk”

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Since: Jun 11

butler, pa

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#60919
Nov 25, 2012
 
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are we arguing? There was no announcement. That's my point.
Did you look at my link to Wikipedia? On that same year, Einstein had his property confiscated, his books burned and was banned from teaching in German universities. He didn't need to have someone say "Now this is officially a holocaust!" He avoided it before he would be caught in it.
Agreed.

Splitting hairs about it and I apologize.

anonymous

Franklin, PA

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#60920
Nov 25, 2012
 
superwilly wrote:
<quoted text>
No, but your comment indicated that you thought einstein immigrated in response to the holocaust, which clearly did not start until after the invasion of poland in 1935.
Certainly persecution happened before then! Hitler didn't just pop up out of nowhere!
What "announcement" are you talking about?
You clearly think that the Holocaust is defined by official events only. Personally, I don't and since I was talking about events that predated your official definition, I only address them in the same predictive fashion that Einstein would have.

Let's not waste time on this. It's not what the debate is about.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

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#60921
Nov 25, 2012
 
superwilly wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed.
Splitting hairs about it and I apologize.
S'alright!

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

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#60922
Nov 25, 2012
 
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
ENCODE has published research suggesting 80% of the genome is functional and some suggest that it is very likely that 100% of the genome will be found to have function.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketsc...

Already refuted. This is dead.
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text> Actually creationism can make predictions and is testable because Genesis gives me a story to falsify or support whilst TOE is virtually unfalsifiable. eg junk dna, vestigial organs, the revolving door of human ancesotrs, the death of single celled LUCA.

The truth is that evolution is very easy to falsify but no one had done it in 150 years. Must suck to be a creationist.

Lets look a Genesis for falsifiable concepts.

1. Earth created in 6 days including all life forms.
SCIENCE SAYS.... FALSE. The universe is nearly 14 billion years old [per physics, astronomy, cosmology].

2. All life forms created in a few days.
SCIENCE SAYS..... FALSE! Different forms of life have come and gone over 3.8 billion years.[per Geology, anthropology, paleontology, genetics, biology, evolution,...]

3. Humans were created on one day in fully modern form (presumably).
SCIENCE SAYS..... FALSE!!! There have been a range of hominids ranging from modern humans back through a Lucy like ancestor and beyond.[paleontology, paleobiology, anthropology, genetics,.....]

I can go on, but I don't need to, do I? Creationism is falsified.

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#60923
Nov 25, 2012
 
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
I.... DON'T..... KNOW!
He may have said it to keep family happy. He may have been promoting his legacy. He may have had a speech pre-written for him by the Illuminati.
All I can tell you is that I don't care. I don't even know what he means by it. It's not a scientific opinion.
And yet he was a scientist of international repute. Hmmm.

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#60924
Nov 25, 2012
 
straa wrote:
<quoted text>
Eh, of course English and German are practically the same, aren't they, oh no, thats right, there about as different from eachother as you could possibly get, German is a great language, but its not exacyly shakespear is it, not to nice on the ear either, only joking, but seriously, English is English and as far away from German as it is from french
It is only the deaf that can disagree to that.
English is English and German is German. Case closed.

“I am Sisyphus”

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#60925
Nov 25, 2012
 
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I said TOE needs to be sent to the philosophy camp.
That appears to be the only base you wish to have an evolution/creation discussion on.
Your post suggests that you have no intension of adhering to a scientific debate.

Do you use a lot of psychological projection?
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text> If you can't refute my points, they are established.

As I have already refuted them this is a moot point.
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text> That does mean TOE is false. What it does mean is that TOE is not the closed case evolutionists like to present it as being.

I think you mean that ToE is the most materially supported scientific theory in the history of science, and that the ToE has multiple lines of evidence from multiple fields of science.

I sure it was just a typo on your part.
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text> I don't want to waste my day discussing philosophy. I already belong to another philosophy forum so I won't be discussing philosophy here.

So you are afraid of answering the question. Thats cool, but at least be honest about it.
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text> Science based discussion is all I am here to partake in.

Funny as you have avoided it like the plague, preferring instead to misquote actual science and real researchers. Maybe you mean 'science biased discussion'. LOL.

Isn't it true that you have no evidence for any science other than evolution as an explanation of origins?

Isn't it true that non-coding DNA is a non-sequitur and in no way supports Creationism as any sort of scientific theory? Isn't it true that there is NO other scientific theory of origins other than evolution?
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text> So if no evo can falsify my points I'll leave you all to discuss Jesus, languages, spiritual texts and their veracity, and the philosophies of life.
Cheers....

Isn't it true that in science it is the person questioning the established theory who has the burden of proof?

Isn't it true that we don't have to falsify your points (even though I have done you the kindness of doing so) because your side has the burden of proof?

Isn't it true that you believe a religious notion and it is ONLY BECAUSE YOU HOLD THOSE BELIEFS that you feel the need to question evolution?

Have a happy, luv.

“I am Sisyphus”

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#60926
Nov 25, 2012
 
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> And yet he was a scientist of international repute. Hmmm.

Man, you never get it when you are being made fun of.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

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#60927
Nov 25, 2012
 
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> And yet he was a scientist of international repute. Hmmm.
Yeah, the poor guy undoubtedly had all sorts of loonies trying to co-opt his name for crazy things. He could have been killed by any number of fanatics that he refused to endorse.

Do you suppose that he may have learned to make his real message clear to people who were capable of empathizing with him, yet left others with some ambiguous talisman to hang onto, rather than casually crush their messianic delusions?

Hmmmph!! The Internet has its value.

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#60928
Nov 25, 2012
 
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
I cannot believe that you are stupid enough to argue! LOL!
Are you running away from the post, challenge it if you can. Stupidity in the highest order.
Lol

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#60929
Nov 25, 2012
 
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Man, you never get it when you are being made fun of.
Man, then you do not know or understand the meaning of fun.
Did he( Einstein) said, " science without religion is lame and religion without science is blind ". Did any one forced him to say that, yes or no?
An advice, look before you leap(poke nose).

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#60930
Nov 25, 2012
 
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, the poor guy undoubtedly had all sorts of loonies trying to co-opt his name for crazy things. He could have been killed by any number of fanatics that he refused to endorse.
Do you suppose that he may have learned to make his real message clear to people who were capable of empathizing with him, yet left others with some ambiguous talisman to hang onto, rather than casually crush their messianic delusions?
Hmmmph!! The Internet has its value.
That is your opinion. To me, he believed that, science and religion can mutually co-habit together as one, for the good of the society.
anonymous

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#60931
Nov 25, 2012
 
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Man, you never get it when you are being made fun of.
Asperger's.

“I am Sisyphus”

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#60932
Nov 25, 2012
 
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
What's up Dogen? Is the creation/evolution debate getting to hot for you to handle. Now you want to head staight for a philosophical topic to chase out tails around all day about. I can pick the crap out of your geology and you can pick the crap out of any flood geoplogy. Well that sounds like fun..Not.

Oh, I don't really think you have a chance against real geology an I can prove flood geology is crap. So it sounds like plenty of fun to me. And YOU did bring it up.
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text> I tell you what why don't you get off that lazy behind of yours and refute my claims around junk dna, vestigial organs, ervs, chromosome 2 fusion, the fossil evidence, the myth of 1%, birds being out in the fossil record or any of my previous claims.

I think I have refuted them all. I don't remember what you said about ERVs but if you think it is not a complete crush of creotard nonsense then you don't really understand them. Since you don't seem to comprehend any bit of science, but rather simply parrot the creotard greatest hits in the head list, this should be pretty easy.

So tell me, ho... er.... I mean 'how' do you account for ERVs, DNA in general and the fossil evidence ALL falling into the EXACT SAME nested hierarchy pattern?

Just a real easy one to get us kicked off. You should have no problem trying to double talk your way out of that one without changing the subject. There is the rope. Do with it whatever you do with rope.
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text> Oh no! Thats all too hard for some of you. You'd rather talk about languages it seems!
Here is another claim presented for you again...Nothing I can present in support of creation could be worse than the 150 years of instability and falsifications you have to offer.

You are not even clear when you are making unsupported assertions. Seems you are frustrated that the ToE has been around 150 years and has weathered every criticism against it without breaking a sweat. It will be around in another 150 years. How can it not? It has not a single competitor in all of science.
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text> Your theoretical base is no better than mine and TOE should be sent packing to the philosophies camp and be deleted from science streams.

ROTFLMFAO. Okay. Lets play that game for a few.

Instead of talking about the THEORY of evolution, lets talk about the FACT of evolution.

The FACT of evolution is observable in the Fossil Record.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/arti...

The FACT of evolution is observable in the Genomic Record.
http://www.astro.umd.edu/~miller/teaching/ast...

The FACT of evolution is observable in nature.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciatio...
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/speciation.ht...

The FACT of evolution is observable in the laboratory.
http://www.dbskeptic.com/2008/06/21/macro-evo...

If you can deal with the FACT of evolution,....THEN we can discuss the theory.

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Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#60933
Nov 25, 2012
 
Good grief is Maz still polluting this thread with her debunked nonsense?

On the "modern bird fossils". No, all accounts call them bird like and note some differences between modern birds and those fossil footprints. And especially important no bird fossils have been found,... yet. At any rate a reversed hallux does not a bird make. Creationists have claimed that Archaeopteryx is a modern bird ever since it was found even though it has sharp pointed teeth, a long tail, claws on its wings and now a non-reversed hallux. Yes, better preserved fossils than the original indicate that the hallux was not reversed. For the TOE this is no problem since all that matters it that the hallux reversed some time.

Even if those footprints do turn out to be bird footprints it is no big whoop, as the professionals say. It only means that we had the wrong date for the first birds. The older date is not a ridiculously older bird that would harm evolution in any way. It might help the BAND group (Birds Are Not Dinosaurs) but it will not harm the TOE in any way.

Now lets look at her kerfuffle with noncoding DNA.

We are still finding out how DNA works. We know that genes can be turned off and on, The finding of "junk DNA" was a bit of a surprise to biologists at first. That seems to indicate that they thought at the time that evolution would not have the massive amount of non-coding DNA that we have. So now that we are finding that there is a use for it that somehow is supposed to be a problem for evolution? I don't think so.

"Junk DNA" was a concept that creation could not handle in any way, so I guess this is a slight reprieve for them. Creationism has been shown to be wrong ten ways from Sunday in every other aspect of science so a slight reprieve, and I mean a very slight one, may seem like a victory to them. Time will tell on the genetics question. And from my reading ERV's are still not considered to be "junk DNA" and creationists still do not have an answer for them.

We are waiting.

“I am Sisyphus”

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#60934
Nov 25, 2012
 
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Man, then you do not know or understand the meaning of fun.
Did he( Einstein) said, " science without religion is lame and religion without science is blind ". Did any one forced him to say that, yes or no?
An advice, look before you leap(poke nose).

Yes, time traveling minions of evil from the 24th were holding a phaser to his head.

Did Einstein also say:

"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. "(Albert Einstein, 1954)

Or

" I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings." (Albert Einstein)

Did anyone force him to say these things?

“I am Sisyphus”

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#60935
Nov 25, 2012
 
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
Asperger's.

I don't know.

My son has full blown autism and even he gets things faster than Charles!
anonymous

Franklin, PA

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#60936
Nov 25, 2012
 
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know.
My son has full blown autism and even he gets things faster than Charles!
My twin brother, too!

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