Evolution vs. Creation

There are 20 comments on the Jan 6, 2011, Best of New Orleans story titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#60306 Nov 23, 2012
Gstspkr wrote:
But mysteriously, it arrived in the same time frame as Engels and Marx.
Unfortunately for you you are completely and utterly incorrect. Evolution has been around for nearly 4 billion years. And its foundations were laid down in biological study a long time before Darwin came along, who merely provided the mechanism of natural selection after building upon work of those who came before him. One of whom for example was Linnaeus, whose basis for a biological classification system is still in use today. Linnaeus, by all accounts what you would term a creationist, was the man who pointed out the fact that humans are apes. There was some opposition to this of course, predominantly by theologians. They wrote to him informing him of their complaints and concerns. He wrote back to them. He was sympathetic, but asked them if they could provide a valid scientific reason not to place humans in the same category as apes.

He got none.

Over 300 years later, neither has anyone else.
Gstspkr wrote:
Master confiscators, who proposed the rights of the working man and revolution only to seize power and ruthlessly, by force oppress any who opposed them including many revolutionary working men.
But of course. The eternal American boogey-man. The monster under the bed that is not there. Ignore the actual problems and invent an insidious villainous villain of villainy. In reality Marx would be turning in his grave if he saw how his proposals were subsequently twisted by the ruling class such as the Tsars and beyond.
Gstspkr wrote:
They explicitly write of the need to abolish God in order to promote the worship of superiors to which they immediately promoted themselves.
Yet now, as then, half of the former USSR are Christians. You forget that the abolition of the church by Stalin was a political move, which was later restored in another political move by the same man. Which would be a rather strange thing to do were he motivated by atheism. In actuality he was motivated by power, and totalitarianism under the guise of Communism (remember Communism is the opposite of Capitalism, and Capitalism is the American way - meaning you are JUST as guilty of deception as those former Soviet dictators).
Gstspkr wrote:
After all they couldn't allow the peasants assign any meaning to such vile biblical versus like "God is a respecter of no man", meaning we are all equally faulty, themselves included.
And you too it appears, God or no. Of course none of this is relevant to the scientific validity of evolution. Ergo rather than deal with the reality of evolution and astound us all with your great scientific knowledge and falsify evolution and cause a great scientific revolution of our modern times, you basically, in effect, invoke Godwin's law by equating biological evolution (a scientific fact) with Cold War-era Stalinistic Soviet Communism (a perversion of genuine socialistic Communism which has never truly been achieved - but interestingly promoted by Jesus). In short, you argued against a great big giant straw-man. Because you fundies are intellectually incapable of dealing with reality nor approaching any subject with integrity or honesty. And you pray that God will forgive you of your transgressions despite your flagrant dismissal of the 9th Commandment. A true student of Martin Luther.

“Waytogo”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#60307 Nov 23, 2012
Orangelion wrote:
<quoted text>
I am a christian myself, but I certainly don't agree with those people. They have the irony to call a brick box the house of God, when it isn't, and try to use the example to take away your basic rights.
Yet you still want people rights and freedoms taken away because of your cult myth nazi beliefs.
Orangelion

Abergele, UK

#60308 Nov 23, 2012
ToManyLaws wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet you still want people rights and freedoms taken away because of your cult myth nazi beliefs.
No, my religion shaped me to believe and fight for the right causes.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#60309 Nov 23, 2012
Gstspkr wrote:
Maybe it programmed the organisms to be able to adjust within certain parameters.
Or maybe "it" programmed life to evolve.

Or maybe it doesn't even exist at all and nature was sufficient to develop life and cause it to evolve.(shrug)
Gstspkr wrote:
You seem to think that that if you jump off a cliff, you'll evolve wings before hit the bottom.
What a moronic thing to say. Since evolution does not make that claim, neither would I.

Ergo you are either constructing another straw-man to knock down or you are simply lacking education on the subject.

Either way it makes you dishonest.
Gstspkr wrote:
Perhaps the Russian citizenry discovered the Christians weren't public enemy #1 like Marx, Lenin, and Stalin claimed. Maybe as they witnessed them being shipped off to the Gulag didn't make their own life any better. And maybe they saw something real instead of listening to a bunch of empty promises from their government, media, and professors.
Um, G, the Russian citizenry didn't NEED to discover it. They were already around 50% religious then, and are now. They didn't really have any problems until this next bit - It was Stalin who decided to shut down the churches and his followers were simply too afraid to oppose him in fear of being executed. Then later Stalin reopened the churches in another political move marketing himself as a "friend to religion". This also led to a split within the Russian orthodox church (much like Catholicism and Protestantism), and THAT'S why the status quo still exists today.

Of course none of this political tangent is relevant to the validity of evolution.

“Waytogo”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#60310 Nov 23, 2012
Orangelion wrote:
<quoted text>
No, my religion shaped me to believe and fight for the right causes.
Naiz fascism as a freligion is vile and evil. What you think is right the rest of us think is nasty.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#60311 Nov 23, 2012
Gstspkr wrote:
Go for the gusto progressive!, PLUNDER! PISS IT AWAY! AND APPLAUD YOURSELF!. As the great Margaret Thatcher said, "Socialism is great until you run put of other people's money". After that you'll have to "evolve your ass off the free ride couch" and discover the basic science of economics.
Science is physics, chemistry and biology. Economics does not come under that. If you REALLY stretch it you could try to claim that it's part of biology as a subset of sociology which is a subset of psychology and in turn biological altruism.
Gstspkr wrote:
You applaud your education, but do you take more than you give Mr Progressive ? Who is it that you feel entitled to weigh down ? Does it make you feel important to try bring others down to your level ?
My level? You're a liar and propagandist. You pretended that politically inconvenient reality (science) was not science and now you're on a rhetorical tirade against me personally. I'm not upset, just rolling my eyes.
Gstspkr wrote:
Is it fair, progressive that they forgo going to the pub, and not buying your drinks ? Is it fair that they save and invest, while you've piss your time away ? Is it right that they recognize to need to grow, while you feel the need to confiscate their reputation, resources, and freedom ? It appears you missed your calling and time. You should have been born in the 17th century, as you fit the profile of a fine English slave trader
Really now? And yet here you are manipulating history and science to promote a political view with the express intent of illegally teaching ancient superstition in public schools so you can ensure **other people's kids** will be as naive as you. The irony is quite astounding. Physician heal thyself.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#60312 Nov 23, 2012
Gstspkr wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course not, when the judge and jury are socialist , then I'm judged by their agenda which strangely doesn't acknowledge their past forgeries and "mistakes". Can you ever remember a textbook disclaiming one of their irrefutable findings ? If you don't smell rotten fish in Denmark, friend, you have a sinus infection. And a very large sinus indeed.
Yup. All them judges and jurists were just mean old socialists.

Every single one of 'em since 1925.

Duh.

Thank you for showing everyone you shot your load and have nothing to fire but blanks.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#60313 Nov 23, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> He was a Christian that is all.
He is unlike you guys that are liars and backbiters.
Ah shaddap Chuck, ya lying sack of dumb.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#60315 Nov 23, 2012
Portal wrote:
<quoted text>The makers are if fact manipulating and controlling all life on this planet.........they function in a dimension the primitive human animal will never and dosnt want to comprehend. The Bible story is nothing more than intelligent beings distorting the truth.....to fool the human animal. A brilliant disguise!
Ah. So you're using the Star Trek definition of the word 'dimension'. Always a good sign. How'd that hand signal go again?
Orangelion

Abergele, UK

#60316 Nov 23, 2012
ToManyLaws wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet you still want people rights and freedoms taken away because of your cult myth nazi beliefs.
I don't, I have good evidence to support my beliefs.

“Waytogo”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#60317 Nov 23, 2012
Orangelion wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't, I have good evidence to support my beliefs.
You have nothing. Your lies wont change facts.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#60318 Nov 23, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
Hey Dude, methinks you have upset another godbot
Yup. Took shorter than usual too.

:-p
ChristineM wrote:
Gstspkr, the “Great” Margaret Thatcher legacy –
The institutionalised corruption of privatising the nation’s utilities so her mates in the City could get ever richer.
The complete dismantling of entire industries and the communities that relied on them.
Engineering the biggest transfer of wealth from the poorest to the richest ever seen in the UK up to that point.
The Poll Tax
Riots.
Poverty.
Record unemployment,
The most draconian and repressive employment legislation anywhere in the developed world
Her defence of and friendship with Chilean mass-murdering dictator General Pinochet
The ruination of the NHS to name but a few of her achievements.
Uhuh, hence her mostly general lack of popularity ever since. If I also wanted an easy cheap shot I could easy just say George Bush.
Orangelion

Abergele, UK

#60319 Nov 23, 2012
ToManyLaws wrote:
<quoted text>
You have nothing. Your lies wont change facts.
It will have to be an empasse till one wins his points then.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#60320 Nov 23, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> What brought about the rocks, seas and the oceans, etc?
Space detritus.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#60321 Nov 23, 2012
Gstspkr wrote:
<quoted text>
And the socialist gospel proclaims that once upon a time a lightning bolt struck a possible ammoniated methane pool, generated stray amino acids which possibly hooked up in a manner which allowed it feed, digest and reproduce itself. Sorry progressive genius, I just can't buy swamp land in southern Arizona, but you obviously have that "kind of blind faith" for such an investment.
You're getting him confused. He's the UFO-ologist. Which is technically more akin to creationism.

I notice you're bringing up abiogenesis again. It still has no bearing on the scientific validity of evolution. Sorry.

But no matter what your beefs are with ANY scientific concept, you have already defeated your own case (as if you even had one to begin with). Your alternative is Goddidit with magic. Even if we PRETEND evolution was wrong (just for the sake of argument) all we need do then is say well evolution did it with magic, and our claims would be every bit as valid as yours.

That's it. Stalemate. Debate over. You may as well go home.

Bye then.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#60322 Nov 23, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
With all your words you do realize that you never have anything of substance to say.
Irony meter go boom.

Hey Maz! What's the "scientific theory" of creationism?

(sound of crickets chirping)

See what I mean? Maybe next millenium then eh?

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#60323 Nov 23, 2012
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Really now? And yet here you are manipulating history and science to promote a political view with the express intent of illegally teaching ancient superstition in public schools so you can ensure **other people's kids** will be as naive as you. The irony is quite astounding. Physician heal thyself.
You had best keep rolling your eyes because that is the level of your competence. You suggest science is manipulated to suit some agenda but you stay silent as to what exactly it is that is said that is misrepresented and how?

Here is an idea!!!! Have a go at giving more than woffle in response to this below, with that famous peer reviewed research you lot always insist on and gobble on about.

Evos have had nothing to say at all about junk dna.
Here is what support for ones view may look like that evos appear to have no clue about.

Creationists can actually make predictions around non coding dna and vestigial organs. There will be none if mankind was created rahter than evolved. Evolutionists cannot not make a prediction around dna. It is that simple. Refute that with evidence and more than your humble and uneducated opinion. They can't.

Do we now why you can't? Because creos can support their view and evos are left walking up the garden path of evasion along with all their evolutionary cohorts here. All they can offer is opinionate rhetoric, and that is NOT science in case they are confused.

Further more to that it is evolutionary scientists that are handing creationists the evidence for creation on a silver platter and continually refuting previous evolutionary assertions.
80% of the genome is now known to be functional and is validating creationist predictions.

http://www.nature.com/news/encode-the-human-e...
Here is the published and peer reviewed research.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15716009

Here is a paper written by evolutionists including one from the Max Plank Institute in Germany. This paper speaks to the myth of 1%. This paper supports my view that indeed evolutionists have no credible method of dna comparison. Evo results are fictiously biased. Rather evolutionary researchers ignore all differences then zero in on some tiny bit of sequence and start applying their preconcieved assumptions and algorithmic magic.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/316/5833/18...

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/316/5833/18...

So evos suggest man is closely related to a chimp because they are 1% similar or 80% different. Make up your mind.

Hence TOE is not a science it is a philosophy trying to be a science and failing miserably it seems. Evos just refuse to see it. Its a matter of unfounded pride. Others here believe in some form of dribble yet will ridicule others.

The majority of you evos be you theist or atheist are as closed minded as any religious bigot has a right to be.

Now I guarantee you that you will come back with a woffly reply or none at all, as opposed to a view I provide backed by research data given a creationist interpretation.

Alternatively you are welcome to call the evolutionary researchers quoted above idiots if you like. We may have some point of agreeance on that.

“Waytogo”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#60324 Nov 23, 2012
Orangelion wrote:
<quoted text>
It will have to be an empasse till one wins his points then.
I already won. Many weeks ago.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#60325 Nov 23, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
So have evolutionists become mindless sheep! I am not a mindless sheep because I can actually support my view that creationists are gaining better support for their views whilst TOE is becoming a huge mes of contradiction and instability., It appears evos here on this forum are demonstrating how confused they are.
None of you here have the ability to mount a supported debate. Not one of you have for the entire thread, it appears.
None of you will speak to any prediction on non coding dna because you do not have one, whilst I do. There is no need for junk if we were created. You lot sprooked there would be and suggested that 98% of the genome was functionless. These bright sparks, once again and in line with previous history, were wrong.
Hence junk dna proves evolution and I suppose 80% functional non coding dna also supports evolution does it?
http://www.nature.com/news/encode-the-human-e...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15716009
Also 1% difference supports TOE as does the fact that dna comparisons are ridiculously misrepresentative and in actual fact there is an 80% difference in protien expression as well as all the vast differences that are ignored.
http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/biology/fra...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15716009
Assertions backed by research is the only way to form a bais for debate. Mindless opinion and empty words mean nothing, just in case you remain confused about what a debate or supporting ones view should look like.
I suggest that as an observer of the evolution/creation debate the creationists are actually being given their evidence by evolutionists on a golden plater!


O HAI MAZ! I see you're still repeating fallacies even though they've all been addressed since here:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...

I notice you *still* haven't addressed your humongous problems and since you're *still* promoting GODDIDIT WITH MAGIC it *still* makes you a stupendously monumental dishonest hypocrite.

I'm sure you'll come back with something rationally coherent one day, right?

Like when Jesus comes back.

Go ask Harold Camping when that might happen.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#60326 Nov 23, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
A post based on opinion will never provide more credibility than the supported view I can present with research in support of my views and assertions. eg my last post. Evos here appear to be too stupid to even understand what research and support looks like.
I'd say peer reviewed research from your own researchers is support for my view as opposed to these woffly replies I get from the likes of idiots like you.
As I said you evos here on this forum are hopelessly ignorant and uneducated in the science they are trying to defend and doing a bad job of I may add!
In that case you should have no problem addressing my posts then.(shrug)

Go on Maz. Snap to it. Chop chop. There's a good fundie.

(Dude checks watch)

(then calendar)

Oh, hey Miss February.

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