Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

“Waytogo”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#60274 Nov 23, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> What brought about the rocks, seas and the oceans, etc?
Billions of years of evolution.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#60275 Nov 23, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text>What brought about the rocks, seas and the oceans, etc?
Atoms

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Patagonia

#60276 Nov 23, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> An all-powerful that can create the solar system, the nine planets, and makes the earth the only verifiable place of existence can never be created.
A little evidence would be in order here.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#60277 Nov 23, 2012
ToManyLaws wrote:
<quoted text>
Weak minded people will always listen to lies told well and long enough. Early on your religion FORCED people on pain of death into there cult. Now some people like you are just brainwashed.
God and the buybull are man made BS. You would know it if your mind was not so weak.
The bible is the word of God...

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#60278 Nov 23, 2012
ToManyLaws wrote:
<quoted text>
Billions of years of evolution.
Billions of years?
But all of a sudden, these evolution are no longer obtainable any more. Poof!!!

“Waytogo”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#60279 Nov 23, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> The bible is the word of God...
The buybull is man made fiction. The handbook of the worlds second most evil and violent religion.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#60280 Nov 23, 2012
NikkiShae wrote:
<quoted text>
Charles the Earth gains around 40,000 tons of space rocks and dust every year in the same process that created it. Earth didn't come to be from the "Big Bang" or a giant magic thumb and forefinger.
Oh and you would know for sure on the back of a big bang model where physics breaks down at the singularity. On the back of a model that suggests 96% of the universe is dark energy, a substance they know nothing about except it makes their physics less problematic.

How about this theory that you all like to ignore. This will never take off because it actually makes sense and does not require the mystery of dark matter and energy.

http://wallacegsmith.wordpress.com/2010/10/22...

Hence one can believe in a theory that breaks down and makes the earth not special or one can choose another equally credible theory.

BTW, I also can present research that suggest intergalactic shadows are missing causing challenges to the validity of big bang.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/09/...

You see once again you use illogical assumptions and unsubstantiated views to support your views on big bang and earth formation. Assumption is all there is and appears to be used in place of observed science.

There is more confusion, contradiction and competing theories on earth formation then there ever was.

The one thing that supports a biblical Gods ability to create instantly is that there is now research that proves energy can turn to matter.

What is God described as? Energy and light. What is the primary matter of the universe according to researchers...energy contained within a singularity the physics of which also breaks down at that instant of creation.

So here again is support for yet another biblical assertion and a creationist view that the primary matter of the universe will be made from the substance of God. Done! The statement that a source of power can create matter has been established. That is suportive data on creos behalf

That view is as good if not better than anything you can provide, despite big bangs general acceptance.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#60281 Nov 23, 2012
NikkiShae wrote:
<quoted text>
Atoms
What brought about the atoms?
The cycle goes and on and on.
Language or grammar can never fill that gap or vacuum ...

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#60282 Nov 23, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
SubdutionZone is a champ due to amounts of post and nothing to do with content. He has absolutely no idea except to mimick others words he likely cannot comprehend himself.
Here is a message to Subduction Zone.....
The work on epitasis I have presented actually supports other research on genetic entropy by John C Sanford.
Of course evos, that have some clue, will point to a swathe of blather that refutes Sanford. Of course evos use their own assumption as a refute and tis is and always has been circular. This new research actually refutes the refute to Sanfords work and turns previous refutes into mindless blather.
"These results provide the first evidence that patterns of epistasis may differ for within- and between-gene interactions during adaptation and that diminishing returns epistasis contributes to the consistent observation of decelerating fitness gains during adaptation."
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/332/6034/11...
These data support models in which negative epistasis contributes to declining rates of adaptation over time. Sign epistasis was rare in this genome-wide study, in contrast to its prevalence in an earlier study of mutations in a single gene.
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/332/6034/11...
Some geese here suggest quoting the operative phrase of a research article is quote mining. I say to them they should try presenting some evidence instead of quacking and demonstrating they have no clue what it is to support ones view.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Sanford
Sanford was a respected evo researcher with published papers, turned YEC.
Yes evo researchers that provide this stuff still support TOE. It is just that they have to keep coming up with the most ridiculous and non plausible scenarios to protect their TOE from zombification. The point being that evos have nothing more than handwaving to refute anything any creationist has to say.
Hence a creationist view or faith is no less valuable nor less supported than yours, be it theist or atheist.
So your claim that creationists have not come up with their own algorithmic magic, nor their own interpretations of any data, is made from ignorance. You want croes to understand TOE better than any of you here can and you also appear to have no idea what creos have to present in support of their beliefs. Many evos here are extraordinarily ignorant. Few have any clue.
What evolutionists present as empirical evidence is not really empirical evidence at all. That is just one reason I assert evolutionists have nothing of substance to offer. Subductionzone can feel free to refute me with some evidence rather than his most humble opinion.
Evos invent hypothesis backed by rubbish and then use that to challenge creationists.eg junk dna, an organisms ability to adapt without limits on the back of endless accumulative beneficial mutations, knucklewalking wrist bones,Mendellian inheritance must be the only form of inheritance etc.
So go your hardest evos. My prediction is that I will get more woffle and generalizations with not a shred of research in support and no articulated reply, meaning my points are made and sustained.
Hint: Most research older than 10 years is likely outdated or falsified in favour of the latest flavour of the month.
No serious takers only those wanting to philosophise.

Great! That means I win.

My winning means evos cannot defend their theory, or at least the ones on this forum certainly can't.

“Exercise Your Brain”

Level 1

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#60283 Nov 23, 2012
ToManyLaws wrote:
<quoted text>
Weak minded people will always listen to lies told well and long enough. Early on your religion FORCED people on pain of death into there cult. Now some people like you are just brainwashed.
God and the buybull are man made BS. You would know it if your mind was not so weak.
Hardly his fault, religion encourages and rewards a weak and lazy thought process. I suppose you could blame his parents who decided he needed to be indoctrinated before he was old enough to develop logical thinking skills....and their parents before them, etc.

Rationally speaking, s/he/it isn't entirely blameless. Once the critical thinking process starts (although stunted) some still have the power to ask questions and dare to look behind the smoke and mirrors.

Fortunately, mankind is better educated than before. More are turning away from religion and less are willing to simply be roped in.....now that's an evolutionary process right there;0)

“Exercise Your Brain”

Level 1

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#60284 Nov 23, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> The bible is the word of God...
The bible says your god is the one true god, your god says the bible is his true word. An outstanding example of circular reasoning.

Always makes me think of a dog chasing it's own tail.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#60285 Nov 23, 2012
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
A little evidence would be in order here.
Evidence?
Grammar or language can never show to us vividly how the earth came into form.
This is not the work of guesses or projections, but the work of a designer( God the creator).

“Exercise Your Brain”

Level 1

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#60286 Nov 23, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> What brought about the atoms?
The cycle goes and on and on.
Language or grammar can never fill that gap or vacuum ...
So let's insert the God of the Gaps....oh wait, that doesn't make a damned bit of sense either.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#60287 Nov 23, 2012
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
I suppose you are proposing a moral neutral, which is fine by me. A sort of do unto others amongst your close circle and survival of the fittest with the world at large. Self survival is deeply ingrained in most of us, the rest could be window dressing in a manner of speaking, rationalization comes easy to most of us, also.
Since the pendulum swings both ways, are you suggesting assessing both ends of the spectrum - zealots vs. anarchists - and deciding which niche in the middle arc you wish to occupy....without getting anniahlated by either radical side, that is;0)
Intriguing, I can live with that;0)
Actually, I'm describing a couple of bell curves in human nature that can't be avoided, yet I don't think I fit into any of the dominant groups. Also, I'd probably call the second group something closer to socialists rather than anarchists. Basically, their goal is to change the rules and redistribute the wealth.

Even family may inherit genetic combinations that place them in a different group than their parents, and when they reject family in favor of the herd, I let them go. Maybe I insulate myself from what I consider to be predestined fates in the community, while they just label me as unwilling to take on responsibility.

Nobody wants to be called a bigot or irresponsible, but I've just reached the point where I don't see ANYTHING to be gained by putting my faith in simple "do unto others" culture. If the mob doesn't loot my home today, they'll knock out a few more kids and rob me tomorrow, AND consider it the moral thing to do.

I guess that makes me a bit of an anarchist. I can't fix it so I'll let it break, maybe even hurry things along if I'm feeling impatient. I'm not sure what I'll do if I ever run across someone who I consider "enlightened".

As I see it, we are approaching a global war over wealth. The western world will be using Big Brother to control and maintain the Status Quo. Developing nations will use religion to control and maintain the Status Quo.

I'm to the point where I just put a metaphorical knife in all of their hands and say "Use it!" in a evil Sith lord kind of way. They're trapped. I have no intention of taking the pain out of the karma they've all earned.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#60288 Nov 23, 2012
ToManyLaws wrote:
<quoted text>
The buybull is man made fiction. The handbook of the worlds second most evil and violent religion.
That is not true.
Which is the first?

“Waytogo”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#60289 Nov 23, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Billions of years?
But all of a sudden, these evolution are no longer obtainable any more. Poof!!!
Happening all the time. Thing I find funny is some like you just wont evolve. Time to get out of the stoneage.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#60290 Nov 23, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh and you would know for sure on the back of a big bang model where physics breaks down at the singularity. On the back of a model that suggests 96% of the universe is dark energy, a substance they know nothing about except it makes their physics less problematic.
How about this theory that you all like to ignore. This will never take off because it actually makes sense and does not require the mystery of dark matter and energy.
http://wallacegsmith.wordpress.com/2010/10/22...
Hence one can believe in a theory that breaks down and makes the earth not special or one can choose another equally credible theory.
BTW, I also can present research that suggest intergalactic shadows are missing causing challenges to the validity of big bang.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/09/...
You see once again you use illogical assumptions and unsubstantiated views to support your views on big bang and earth formation. Assumption is all there is and appears to be used in place of observed science.
There is more confusion, contradiction and competing theories on earth formation then there ever was.
The one thing that supports a biblical Gods ability to create instantly is that there is now research that proves energy can turn to matter.
What is God described as? Energy and light. What is the primary matter of the universe according to researchers...energy contained within a singularity the physics of which also breaks down at that instant of creation.
So here again is support for yet another biblical assertion and a creationist view that the primary matter of the universe will be made from the substance of God. Done! The statement that a source of power can create matter has been established. That is suportive data on creos behalf
That view is as good if not better than anything you can provide, despite big bangs general acceptance.
Well done. This is indeed lovely.

“Waytogo”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#60291 Nov 23, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> That is not true.
Which is the first?
That is true. I am glad your religion is dying. Each year more churches close and the parking lots have less cars in them.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#60292 Nov 23, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
So now this bright spark is suggesting the onus is not evolutionists to support their view. is that the case? There is a Goose award going on offer here?
The obvious point being that for evolution to be true based on all your woffle around beneficial mutations they have been acumulating for billions of years. Yet this predictive modelling is suggesting a decline in fitness, not an increase in fitness. You may do your best to explain it however your well credentialled researchers sare surprised and have some up with a plethors of maybes to address it. Maybes are not science. Maybe the reason why this model presents such data is because Sanford was right. That is another interpretation of that data.
This research on epitasis may not falsify TOE or an orgaismns limitless ability to adpat. I am not suggesting that it does nor that these researchers say that. However the point is, this is again NOT what evolutionists expected to find. This is common place. Creos do nort have to invent ridiculous scenarios becuase generally the findings speak for themselves in supporting a creationist paradigm.
The results on this research into epitasis is exactly what creationists expect to find. No convoluted explanations and scenarios but parsimony.
Is that too hard for you to get that mind of yours around?
You're missing the point. Creationists have already decided what they want to find and they just will keep looking until they can find evidence that goes along with their preconception.

While it is valid to observe epitasis, it may simply suggest that the particular bacteria being tested isn't being given a set of environmental conditions that allows it to explore new niches. It could be that there is too much mutation occurring and that something about the environment isn't providing sufficient natural selection and/or rewards to the survivors.

The common sense side of this is that you do observe a fossil record where life has become more complex over time. Stop fighting it and just try to understand it.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#60293 Nov 23, 2012
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
The bible says your god is the one true god, your god says the bible is his true word. An outstanding example of circular reasoning.
Always makes me think of a dog chasing it's own tail.
Whatever. But you can not rob Peter to Paul.
With baseless assertions.

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