Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 197306 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Waytogo”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#60291 Nov 23, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> That is not true.
Which is the first?
That is true. I am glad your religion is dying. Each year more churches close and the parking lots have less cars in them.
anonymous

Chagrin Falls, OH

#60292 Nov 23, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
So now this bright spark is suggesting the onus is not evolutionists to support their view. is that the case? There is a Goose award going on offer here?
The obvious point being that for evolution to be true based on all your woffle around beneficial mutations they have been acumulating for billions of years. Yet this predictive modelling is suggesting a decline in fitness, not an increase in fitness. You may do your best to explain it however your well credentialled researchers sare surprised and have some up with a plethors of maybes to address it. Maybes are not science. Maybe the reason why this model presents such data is because Sanford was right. That is another interpretation of that data.
This research on epitasis may not falsify TOE or an orgaismns limitless ability to adpat. I am not suggesting that it does nor that these researchers say that. However the point is, this is again NOT what evolutionists expected to find. This is common place. Creos do nort have to invent ridiculous scenarios becuase generally the findings speak for themselves in supporting a creationist paradigm.
The results on this research into epitasis is exactly what creationists expect to find. No convoluted explanations and scenarios but parsimony.
Is that too hard for you to get that mind of yours around?
You're missing the point. Creationists have already decided what they want to find and they just will keep looking until they can find evidence that goes along with their preconception.

While it is valid to observe epitasis, it may simply suggest that the particular bacteria being tested isn't being given a set of environmental conditions that allows it to explore new niches. It could be that there is too much mutation occurring and that something about the environment isn't providing sufficient natural selection and/or rewards to the survivors.

The common sense side of this is that you do observe a fossil record where life has become more complex over time. Stop fighting it and just try to understand it.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#60293 Nov 23, 2012
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
The bible says your god is the one true god, your god says the bible is his true word. An outstanding example of circular reasoning.
Always makes me think of a dog chasing it's own tail.
Whatever. But you can not rob Peter to Paul.
With baseless assertions.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#60294 Nov 23, 2012
ToManyLaws wrote:
<quoted text>
Happening all the time. Thing I find funny is some like you just wont evolve. Time to get out of the stoneage.
Has any worms in your school waste bin. metamorphosed into human.

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#60295 Nov 23, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
No serious takers only those wanting to philosophise.
Great! That means I win.
My winning means evos cannot defend their theory, or at least the ones on this forum certainly can't.
Goodness you are a fascinating person. Who told you there was even a debate between "evos" and "creos?" There isn't one. Arguing with you would be like arguing with a child who thinks babies are delivered by stork. "Creos" set themselves up as diametrically opposed to the TOE to give themselves some bit of legitimacy; it's a ploy to get attention basically, which is why many scientists and philosophers advocate against even engaging you idiots in debate.

Also, the study you cited above about the big bang was flawed, the author offered a clarification in a subsequent release - where he basically said that all the hoopla about his observations casting doubt on the standard model was merely hype. If you cared about such things, you would have already known that, because you would have done a little research on a SIX year old press release.
anonymous

Chagrin Falls, OH

#60296 Nov 23, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> What brought about the atoms?
The cycle goes and on and on.
Language or grammar can never fill that gap or vacuum ...
The one between your ears?

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#60297 Nov 23, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Well done. This is indeed lovely.
Charles, let's be serious - as dim as she is and as astoundingly flawed her arguments/data are, you still don't have the slightest clue what she posted.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Australia

#60298 Nov 23, 2012
ToManyLaws wrote:
<quoted text>
That is true. I am glad your religion is dying. Each year more churches close and the parking lots have less cars in them.
Religion is dying because most religions do not adhere to the teachings in their spiritual texts. You've got Catholics bowing down to idols, Islamic extremists and uncivilized faiths populating like rabbits, and other that don't believe in a biblical God but uphold some unsubstantiated dribble of their own.

Look at this article. I have sourced a refute for you lot seeing as none of you are able to supply anything of substance for yourselves.

http://thenaturalhistorian.com/2012/11/03/the...

I refute you by claiming that evidence of people leaving religion does not inform the creation/evolution debate at all. You are evading strong and robust discussions I speak to in an attempt to evade the thread topic. On a properly moderated forum your posts would likely have been deleted.

This boof in the refute to my assertion above is trying to refute accumulating evidence that researchers and scientists are flocking to the various forms of creationism in droves.

Note this fool basing his entire refute on the basis of amounts of published articles, as if the publication watch dogs allow creationist research past their gates. It is only puiblished when disgiused as based on evo paradigms.

Indeed I assert that researchers are flocking to creationist models in droves. John Sanford is just one of them.
anonymous

Chagrin Falls, OH

#60299 Nov 23, 2012
ToManyLaws wrote:
<quoted text>
That is true. I am glad your religion is dying. Each year more churches close and the parking lots have less cars in them.
What annoys me is when the church is next to a public building and leaches the government parking spaces on Sunday.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Australia

#60300 Nov 23, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Charles, let's be serious - as dim as she is and as astoundingly flawed her arguments/data are, you still don't have the slightest clue what she posted.
If you are refering to me, it is you that have proven to be dim becuase you have not addressed me with substantive research to refute me. Nor have you explained how anything I assert is not as equally a good interpretation of the data as any these researchers have come up with.

All your woffle around junk dna, vestigial organs; Over 4 billion years of accumulative beneficial mutation that are overwhelmingly negative and restrictive which is great evidence for creation dismissed by the mere wave of the hand and any old ridiculous scenarion any delusional mind can come up with will do!

You can do no more than ridicule me and that makes me extremely happy because you have provided evidence of your own ignorance.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#60301 Nov 23, 2012
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>The earth was without form, and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep until the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters, and God said, Let there be light: and there was light. God is the law.
You are fond of making assertions without evidence that supports them.
anonymous

Chagrin Falls, OH

#60302 Nov 23, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Religion is dying because most religions do not adhere to the teachings in their spiritual texts. You've got Catholics bowing down to idols, Islamic extremists and uncivilized faiths populating like rabbits, and other that don't believe in a biblical God but uphold some unsubstantiated dribble of their own.
Look at this article. I have sourced a refute for you lot seeing as none of you are able to supply anything of substance for yourselves.
http://thenaturalhistorian.com/2012/11/03/the...
I refute you by claiming that evidence of people leaving religion does not inform the creation/evolution debate at all. You are evading strong and robust discussions I speak to in an attempt to evade the thread topic. On a properly moderated forum your posts would likely have been deleted.
This boof in the refute to my assertion above is trying to refute accumulating evidence that researchers and scientists are flocking to the various forms of creationism in droves.
Note this fool basing his entire refute on the basis of amounts of published articles, as if the publication watch dogs allow creationist research past their gates. It is only puiblished when disgiused as based on evo paradigms.
Indeed I assert that researchers are flocking to creationist models in droves. John Sanford is just one of them.
Nope. I didn't see anything to refute. I'll support their observation that they seem to be lacking followers in the science community.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#60303 Nov 23, 2012
MAV, creation articles are not peer reviewed. And they openly admit to not being honest. In peer review actual experts in the subject look at your paper and try to find errors in it. The process that goes on at Creation "Journals" is laughable in comparison.

On a properly moderated forum most of your posts would have been deleted for lying and simply being wrong.

We love to challenge creationists to find real science that backs up their beliefs since we know that they cannot and any results supplied will always raise the general level of hilarity of the thread.

“Waytogo”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#60304 Nov 23, 2012
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
What annoys me is when the church is next to a public building and leaches the government parking spaces on Sunday.
I know. Years ago I owned a house on an alley by a church. They would park in alley and acually park onto my grass,my yard ,my property. I put up a fence so they couldnt. One day one of these good church people hit my fence and had the nerve to try and sue me. LOL typical vile religous freaks. Then this church a few years later wanted to expand. they wanted to buy my land. I said no. Within 6 months I had a court order forceing me to sell my land do to some BS building code crap. RELIGION FORCED GOVERNMENT TO FORCE ME OUT OF MY HOME.
Orangelion

Buckley, UK

#60305 Nov 23, 2012
ToManyLaws wrote:
<quoted text>
I know. Years ago I owned a house on an alley by a church. They would park in alley and acually park onto my grass,my yard ,my property. I put up a fence so they couldnt. One day one of these good church people hit my fence and had the nerve to try and sue me. LOL typical vile religous freaks. Then this church a few years later wanted to expand. they wanted to buy my land. I said no. Within 6 months I had a court order forceing me to sell my land do to some BS building code crap. RELIGION FORCED GOVERNMENT TO FORCE ME OUT OF MY HOME.
I am a christian myself, but I certainly don't agree with those people. They have the irony to call a brick box the house of God, when it isn't, and try to use the example to take away your basic rights.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#60306 Nov 23, 2012
Gstspkr wrote:
But mysteriously, it arrived in the same time frame as Engels and Marx.
Unfortunately for you you are completely and utterly incorrect. Evolution has been around for nearly 4 billion years. And its foundations were laid down in biological study a long time before Darwin came along, who merely provided the mechanism of natural selection after building upon work of those who came before him. One of whom for example was Linnaeus, whose basis for a biological classification system is still in use today. Linnaeus, by all accounts what you would term a creationist, was the man who pointed out the fact that humans are apes. There was some opposition to this of course, predominantly by theologians. They wrote to him informing him of their complaints and concerns. He wrote back to them. He was sympathetic, but asked them if they could provide a valid scientific reason not to place humans in the same category as apes.

He got none.

Over 300 years later, neither has anyone else.
Gstspkr wrote:
Master confiscators, who proposed the rights of the working man and revolution only to seize power and ruthlessly, by force oppress any who opposed them including many revolutionary working men.
But of course. The eternal American boogey-man. The monster under the bed that is not there. Ignore the actual problems and invent an insidious villainous villain of villainy. In reality Marx would be turning in his grave if he saw how his proposals were subsequently twisted by the ruling class such as the Tsars and beyond.
Gstspkr wrote:
They explicitly write of the need to abolish God in order to promote the worship of superiors to which they immediately promoted themselves.
Yet now, as then, half of the former USSR are Christians. You forget that the abolition of the church by Stalin was a political move, which was later restored in another political move by the same man. Which would be a rather strange thing to do were he motivated by atheism. In actuality he was motivated by power, and totalitarianism under the guise of Communism (remember Communism is the opposite of Capitalism, and Capitalism is the American way - meaning you are JUST as guilty of deception as those former Soviet dictators).
Gstspkr wrote:
After all they couldn't allow the peasants assign any meaning to such vile biblical versus like "God is a respecter of no man", meaning we are all equally faulty, themselves included.
And you too it appears, God or no. Of course none of this is relevant to the scientific validity of evolution. Ergo rather than deal with the reality of evolution and astound us all with your great scientific knowledge and falsify evolution and cause a great scientific revolution of our modern times, you basically, in effect, invoke Godwin's law by equating biological evolution (a scientific fact) with Cold War-era Stalinistic Soviet Communism (a perversion of genuine socialistic Communism which has never truly been achieved - but interestingly promoted by Jesus). In short, you argued against a great big giant straw-man. Because you fundies are intellectually incapable of dealing with reality nor approaching any subject with integrity or honesty. And you pray that God will forgive you of your transgressions despite your flagrant dismissal of the 9th Commandment. A true student of Martin Luther.

“Waytogo”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#60307 Nov 23, 2012
Orangelion wrote:
<quoted text>
I am a christian myself, but I certainly don't agree with those people. They have the irony to call a brick box the house of God, when it isn't, and try to use the example to take away your basic rights.
Yet you still want people rights and freedoms taken away because of your cult myth nazi beliefs.
Orangelion

Buckley, UK

#60308 Nov 23, 2012
ToManyLaws wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet you still want people rights and freedoms taken away because of your cult myth nazi beliefs.
No, my religion shaped me to believe and fight for the right causes.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#60309 Nov 23, 2012
Gstspkr wrote:
Maybe it programmed the organisms to be able to adjust within certain parameters.
Or maybe "it" programmed life to evolve.

Or maybe it doesn't even exist at all and nature was sufficient to develop life and cause it to evolve.(shrug)
Gstspkr wrote:
You seem to think that that if you jump off a cliff, you'll evolve wings before hit the bottom.
What a moronic thing to say. Since evolution does not make that claim, neither would I.

Ergo you are either constructing another straw-man to knock down or you are simply lacking education on the subject.

Either way it makes you dishonest.
Gstspkr wrote:
Perhaps the Russian citizenry discovered the Christians weren't public enemy #1 like Marx, Lenin, and Stalin claimed. Maybe as they witnessed them being shipped off to the Gulag didn't make their own life any better. And maybe they saw something real instead of listening to a bunch of empty promises from their government, media, and professors.
Um, G, the Russian citizenry didn't NEED to discover it. They were already around 50% religious then, and are now. They didn't really have any problems until this next bit - It was Stalin who decided to shut down the churches and his followers were simply too afraid to oppose him in fear of being executed. Then later Stalin reopened the churches in another political move marketing himself as a "friend to religion". This also led to a split within the Russian orthodox church (much like Catholicism and Protestantism), and THAT'S why the status quo still exists today.

Of course none of this political tangent is relevant to the validity of evolution.

“Waytogo”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#60310 Nov 23, 2012
Orangelion wrote:
<quoted text>
No, my religion shaped me to believe and fight for the right causes.
Naiz fascism as a freligion is vile and evil. What you think is right the rest of us think is nasty.

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