Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#60132 Nov 22, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
All creationists please not a person that has many word and not one shred of support.
Look pal, when you klearn what an actual refute should look like I'll give you are serious reply.
For now you are just a woffler without a link or science to be seen.
I don't want a "serious reply" from you. I told you, I know what your "serious replies" look like - all you do is regurgitate the same tired apologist garbage you heard pastor bob say on sunday. Others have told you this already. You aren't worth engaging in debate, because all you want to do is spam illogical nonsense. I just wanted to tell you that I was amused by you. It's funny that people who are supposedly fulfilled by their religion feel the need to go and whine about a scientific theory that is completely unrelated to their belief.

Also, I thought you should know, refute is not a noun.

Also, one cannot "have" science to be seen.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#60133 Nov 23, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Hogwash!!!
Your hatred for christianity will take you no where.
Well, if science is a "hatred for christian" ... then you are 10000% wrong, because it took us to the moon, gave us the internet, and some really fun games to play.

“I be me, and you are...”

Level 6

Since: Dec 06

in a city...

#60134 Nov 23, 2012
Uhhh yeah we always lived on Plastic Earth sure thang...

Please exit quietly...pssss

“I be me, and you are...”

Level 6

Since: Dec 06

in a city...

#60135 Nov 23, 2012
ok so who hadn't had a giant creature?

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#60136 Nov 23, 2012
Tinka wrote:
ok so who hadn't had a giant creature?
That would be the christians.

Oh wait, the Greeks.

No, the Romans.

Oh, the Egyptians.

Yeah, then Incans.

Hmm, the Aztecs.

Certainly the Sumerians.

I'm runking ducked.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#60137 Nov 23, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>I have a tip, for you. Stop using commas, so much. They make you sound, stupid.
Thanks, but that does not change the subject and your stupidity.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#60138 Nov 23, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>God I love you. You give me hope that maybe, someday, I can smack myself in the head hard enough that I regress to the blissfully unaware mental state of a small child. The way you can be so aggressively stupid about so many things, all the time - well, it's inspiring in a strange sort of way. You are proof positive that ignorance is bliss, and I envy your autistic majesty.
Dull !!!

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#60139 Nov 23, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, if science is a "hatred for christian" ... then you are 10000% wrong, because it took us to the moon, gave us the internet, and some really fun games to play.
To God be the glory.
Without God, there is no earth or universe( planets).

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#60140 Nov 23, 2012
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Mikey got hit on the head by a meteorite with the face of Jesus in it.
Which is actually still more sane than Wolvie's Bigfoot or Chuck's... well, anything.
I really though everyone was more sane that wolfie until Charlie Idiot came along

Do you know where wolfie has got to?, I’ve not come across his distinctive drivel for a few weeks?

“Waytogo”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#60141 Nov 23, 2012
If creation is real who created the creator? I mean if nothing can just POOF into being a creator cant POOF into being either.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#60142 Nov 23, 2012
You_tube_dude_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Evidence of creationism is simply this...."Faith".
Faith is not evidence. So you are claiming that there is no evidence for creationism. I agree.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#60143 Nov 23, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately, the evolutionary fiasco played out like the changing scenes and scenarios that support the overarching TOE is much like any bed time story and cannot be proven to not exist. That is why TOE is virtually unfalsifiable and does not meet the a credible standard of falsifiability.
Hence, my question in relation to evolutionists predictions around non coding dna. What supports TOE? If in 50 years time it is demonstrated that all of the genome is functional, as creationists predict, what then? Does that mean TOE is flse?
Not on Darwins death bed! Hence although TOE can make a few scant predictions, it is virtually unfalsifiable and has little predictability.
All faiths can interpret data to suit themselves and come up with their own algorithmic magic to support themselves.
I think to be closed to only one view is problematic.
The thing is it seriously looks like creos are on better tracks than evos.
General creationist predictions on junk dna and so called vestigal organs are being supported more as time goes on. That appears to be a fact. These are stable predictions.
If proven in time, I suggest evolutionists will have lost a huge support for evolutionary theory, despite any handwaving they come up with to explain it.
Maz, you misunderstand what evolution has said about "junk DNA" from the start. Yes, it is easy to debunk something if you use straw man arguments. So far the idea of junk DNA in no way goes against the theory of evolution. Much of the code seemed to be noncoding. Now when we look at it closer it is "differently" coding. Much like vestigial organs, organs may lose their original purpose but that does not mean that they are totally unused. The same occurs with DNA as the species evolves. DNA is not exactly the same as a circuit that can be switched off, so when a gene is "turned off" it very often still has a use. The experts in DNA would not agree with you in any way at all. So if the person who understand DNA the best don't have a problem with non-coding DNA why should someone who does not understand DNA?(That means you)
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#60144 Nov 23, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
This is what Charles said "People really can say all sort of things, whether true or false.
But we can not rule out the existence of spirits and demons.
They do exist."
Charles is being reasonable here. He suggests one has no evidence to rule them out. Then you call him a liar. He is not a liar. If there is no evidence to the contrary then one is no more delusional believing in a God than evos are for beliving in common ancestors that you have never seen.
By the way....Seeing that you want to talk philosophy instead of science, here is some for you......
Importantly, this has a direct bearing on the question of whether humans and other living creatures have souls. As Kant pointed out over 200 years ago, everything we experience – including all the colors, sensations and objects we perceive – are nothing but representations in our mind. Space and time are simply the mind's tools for putting it all together. Now, to the amusement of idealists, scientists are beginning dimly to recognize that those rules make existence itself possible. Indeed, the experiments above suggest that objects only exist with real properties if they are observed. The results not only defy our classical intuition, but suggest that a part of the mind – the soul – is immortal and exists outside of space and time.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/biocentri...
You would rather think of yourself as a souless ape. Congratulations!
Charles said "they do exist" without any proof. There's nothing philosophical or reasonable about it. He's parking himself into the middle of a discussion and dictating truth to us. He's a liar.

Now, as concerns souls, what IS a soul and why do Christians insist that humans have them? You're right. I don't believe in them. It's all just another myth. Generally, I write it off as an attempt to exploit people's fear of death but it also is used to rationalize exploitation of the natural world and even the human world among some zealots.

Demonstrate evidence of a soul, or move on.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#60145 Nov 23, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Herds?
Without the past, there is no present.
Your ancestors did that as well.
Without your ancestors, there is no you.
That was the civilisation then.
I don't "owe" anything to civilization. As I said, you just don't get it. You never will.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#60146 Nov 23, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I really though everyone was more sane that wolfie until Charlie Idiot came along
Do you know where wolfie has got to?, I’ve not come across his distinctive drivel for a few weeks?
You are indeed the best of all idiots.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#60147 Nov 23, 2012
NikkiShae wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah the power of God... Amazing how he/she/it can miraculously conform to your position without a shred of reliable evidence.
Aye, God is servant to its worshippers.

Apparently.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#60148 Nov 23, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> I can see, you were there when he was dying.
Interesting?
What does Isaac Newton's death have to do with anything? Why would my witnessing his death have any bearing on the topic?

Isaac Newton was a heretic who did not believe in the holy trinity. Somehow, he made it through life without being exposed but he probably was not happy with the confinement that the politics of his day forced on him. He spent a good part of his latter days researching religion and alchemy. He also is suspected to have had Asperger syndrome and may have developed Mercury poisoning through his alchemical pursuits.

That's something you can look up on Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#60149 Nov 23, 2012
MazHere wrote:
You have not refuted anything. I do not, and have never run away from anything. It is you evos that refuse to discuss science and use scientific theory to support your point, that is if you had one, which you don't.
I made a claim and you come up with this vague woffle.
Look at the discussion now. It has turned to philosophy. I only want to talk science. It is usually evos that say creos don't want to talk science and all you evos appear to be doing is scurrying as far away from science as possible.
Every statement I have made I can support from your own researchers.
Only if you're a total hypocrite.(shrug) You can't claim evolution is wrong because you've found some evolution science which proves it wrong oh and just ignore the part where the evolutionary biologist disagrees with the assertion that evolution is wrong therefore GODDIDIT WITH MAGIC.

We keep getting silly fundies claiming geology proves the flood therefore geology is wrong and physics proves the Earth is not old therefore physics is wrong and chemistry proves the Earth is young therefore chemistry is wrong.

Therefore Goddidit with magic.

It's dumb.
MazHere wrote:
If all you can do is say ' TOE is right because they said so, then I say, that 'they' have been wrong many many times before.eg human knucklewalking ancestry, junk dna, 2 turned to three domains of life, the death of single celled LUCA, brain size tied to bipedalism, Mendellian inheritance being the only form of inheritance refuted by HGT and epigentic inheritance etc.
I can support the scientific statements I make in previous posts and here.
The consortium has assigned some sort of function to roughly 80% of the genome, including more than 70,000 ‘promoter’ regions — the sites, just upstream of genes, where proteins bind to control gene expression — and nearly 400,000 ‘enhancer’ regions that regulate expression of distant genes
http://www.nature.com/news/encode-the-human-e...
I have stated, in line with the thread topic, that evos have woffled on about junk dna being absolute proof of evolution. That claim is slowly turning to mud. Toe is made of these little balls of rot that are offered as support but are no more than flavour of the month.
That's because you're arguing against a straw-man.
MazHere wrote:
A creationist prediction is, and has always been, that in time it will be found that all dna will be found to be functional. The same goes for vestigial organs.
Chicken teeth. The result of non-coding DNA. "Junk DNA" is an unfortunate term now misused by creationists.
MazHere wrote:
This prediction is being validated as time goes on as any good prediction should. This is opposed to evolutionary theory that generally comprises flavour of the month.
So what say you evos about junk dna? What supports TOE? Some junk, no junk, all junk, how much junk?????? TOE is an anything goes theory with the hit and miss predictability of a crystal ball.
Toe is a philosophy of faith (No need for God) just like any other and is, just like any other faith, trying to find some support for its credibility. Theist evos just have their own slant and IDers are somewhere in the middle.
Evolution is not atheism. I demonstrated evolution for you on this ver thread. So far you've not addressed it. But then it doesn't matter anyway since your alternative is merely Goddidit with magic.

You lost long before you even came here.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#60150 Nov 23, 2012
MazHere wrote:
This is what Charles said "People really can say all sort of things, whether true or false.
But we can not rule out the existence of spirits and demons.
They do exist."
Charles is being reasonable here. He suggests one has no evidence to rule them out. Then you call him a liar. He is not a liar. If there is no evidence to the contrary then one is no more delusional believing in a God than evos are for beliving in common ancestors that you have never seen.
Chuck IS a liar, but that's beside the point in this case. However Charles in this case too is being unreasonable. He made a claim with zero evidence. Scientifically speaking, the existence of spirits and demons cannot be ruled out. But without evidence they cannot be ruled in either.

So until he can provide objective testable scientific evidence to support his claim there is no reason to lend any credence to his claims.
MazHere wrote:
By the way....Seeing that you want to talk philosophy instead of science, here is some for you......
Importantly, this has a direct bearing on the question of whether humans and other living creatures have souls. As Kant pointed out over 200 years ago, everything we experience – including all the colors, sensations and objects we perceive – are nothing but representations in our mind. Space and time are simply the mind's tools for putting it all together. Now, to the amusement of idealists, scientists are beginning dimly to recognize that those rules make existence itself possible. Indeed, the experiments above suggest that objects only exist with real properties if they are observed. The results not only defy our classical intuition, but suggest that a part of the mind – the soul – is immortal and exists outside of space and time.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/biocentri...
You would rather think of yourself as a souless ape. Congratulations!
Unfortunately when one looks at the actual paper there is nothing about Quantum interference of large organic molecules to suggest the existence of the soul. Of course internet being what it is, and that even includes popular websites directed at Joe-Public, it is inevitable that complicated subjects like quantum physics is twisted by some wishful thinking crank who thinks it supports quantum woo. And this is precisely what you've got a case of right here.

Besides, even if it DID prove spirituality it's quite obvious it's proving the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#60151 Nov 23, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I really though everyone was more sane that wolfie until Charlie Idiot came along
Do you know where wolfie has got to?, I’ve not come across his distinctive drivel for a few weeks?
Oh, he usually comes back. And perhaps this time he'll have another Bigfoot carcass.

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