“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#61 Oct 22, 2013
Uh Clem wrote:
<quoted text>
Then learn to question authority instead of blindly supporting no matter what.
Let's elaborate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_panel

[regarding Palin's inital use in Facebook post]---> Though Palin's post did not identify a portion of legislation she believed mandated "death panels",[25] a spokesperson pointed to HR 3200, Section 1233,[26][27][28] and Palin herself followed up in an August 12 Facebook note clarifying her argument by discussing Section 1233.[25] However, neither Section 1233 nor any other provision in any health care bill provided for a system to determine if individuals were worthy of health care.[2]

In September 2010, six months after the passage of the Affordable Care Act, a BBC article stated that among the "sticky charges" that had stuck against the bill was the false charge of "government 'death panels' deciding who can get what sort of care".[96] A survey by the Regence Foundation and National Journal released in 2011 showed 40% of Americans knew that the "death panels" were not in the Affordable Care Act, while 23% said they thought the law allowed government to make end-of-life care decisions on behalf of seniors, and 36% said they did not know.[97]

PolitiFact gave Palin's claim its lowest rating—"Pants on Fire!"—on August 10[2] and on December 19 it was named "Lie of the Year" for 2009.[15][105][106] "Death panel" was named the most outrageous term of 2009 by the American Dialect Society.[107] The definition was given as "A supposed committee of doctors and/or bureaucrats who would decide which patients were allowed to receive treatment, ostensibly leaving the rest to die".[107][108] FactCheck called it one of the "whoppers" of 2009.[109]

***** Be that as it may, there is some precedent for the concept behind the term. At least one state, Texas, has had enabling "death panel" legislation, the Texas Futile Care Law, signed into law by then-governor George W. Bush.[110]*****

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#62 Oct 22, 2013
Uh Clem wrote:
<quoted text>
Then learn to question authority instead of blindly supporting no matter what.
You just read about a "death panel" in the state of Texas in previous post.

Read on (from the same source about death panel)

In response to legislation in Arizona which cut Medicaid funding for previously approved transplants,[114] E.J. Montini of The Arizona Republic used the term,[115] as did Keith Olbermann of MSNBC.[116] Montini referred to Republican Governor Jan Brewer as "Governor Grim Reaper" and both Brewer and the Republican-controlled legislature as a "death panel".[117]

***** An editorial by USA Today said, "to the extent that death panels of a sort do exist, they're composed of state officials who must decide whether each state's version of Medicaid will cover certain expensive, potentially life-saving treatments."[118]*****

Palin applied the term to the IPAB (**which is the Independent Payment Advisory Board**).[119] After the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform released its recommendation to strengthen the IPAB, she charged in the Wall Street Journal that the board was " 'death panel'-like".[120] FactCheck found her characterization of the board wrong on three counts.[121] Representative Phil Roe (Republican-Tennessee), who has twice sponsored bills to eliminate the IPAB, said he would associate the term with the IPAB.[119] Roe was described by the The Washington Post as "a kindred soul by the medical industry" in part for his legislative efforts against the IPAB and a "magnet during the last election for more than $90,000 in contributions from medical professionals from across the country".[122][123] Rep. Phil Gingrey (Republican-Georgia), an OB/GYN, issued a statement, described by PolitiFact as outrageous,[124] that was in line with the "death panels" narrative.[125][126]
Jonathan Banksmith

Stafford, TX

#63 Oct 22, 2013
Hoosier Hillbilly wrote:
<quoted text>
You say what you say and you expect me to respond?
\blathering/- to talk foolishly at length
Why would you ask?
even a better question is
why would you expect me to respond!
Thought I'd say it twice since it's evident your an idiot
and they have to be repeated too.
I'm sorry that you're either too stupid to understand why it was asked or that was your attempt at deflection because you were cornered and didn't have a decent reply.

“*Merry Christmas*”

Level 8

Since: Nov 12

Greensburg, IN

#64 Oct 22, 2013
Jonathan Banksmith wrote:
<quoted text>I looked at the ACA rates. Guess what? They're actually better than what I've been feeding a major insurance company for years. By far. What I don't want to see are great rates then have them jacked up later either. Time will tell.
Obama's entire presidency is built on this precept, he'll do anything in his power to make it succeed even though he's failed in all other respects even if it cost tax payers another small fortune, but that's not his concern because = he don't care!=.
His spending since he's been in office proves that, and if it hasn't what about what he's getting ready to spend? 20 Trillion before he's out of office - I guarantee it!

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#65 Oct 22, 2013
Uh Clem wrote:
<quoted text>
You see, it's a bit different when the government gets the decision.
When it's the insurance company, you have avenues of recourse: Several layers of state appeals, followed by several layers of federal appeals.
When the government gets first right of refusal, who you gonna appeal the decision to? Hmmmm?
OK "perfessor", let's work through this. Indeed, I'm thinking of a case like Terry Shivano(sp?) when the parents and the spouse were at odds in resolution of "pulling the plug" (see article about Ontario board, to refresh your memory of a like scenario)

This was heavily politicized by Republicans in charge and went high up in the judicial system; maybe even U.S. Supreme Court.

You can bet your clown shoes that a board such as the IPAB would not necessarily be the last word for a decision; the path has already been trod. The final decision could be the SCOTUS.

“*Merry Christmas*”

Level 8

Since: Nov 12

Greensburg, IN

#66 Oct 22, 2013
Deery your talk'n away above my head but Clem makes sense, you want'a come down to our level
and explain your BS or convince others how brilliant you are?
=*= Just answer Clem's question =*=
"When the government gets first right of refusal, who you gonna appeal the decision to? "
Jonathan Banksmith

Stafford, TX

#67 Oct 22, 2013
Hoosier Hillbilly wrote:
<quoted text>
Obama's entire presidency is built on this precept, he'll do anything in his power to make it succeed even though he's failed in all other respects even if it cost tax payers another small fortune, but that's not his concern because = he don't care!=.
His spending since he's been in office proves that, and if it hasn't what about what he's getting ready to spend? 20 Trillion before he's out of office - I guarantee it!
You recite that info as though it were fact yet it is anything but the truth. In simplest terms, any business needs to spend money to make money. Yes, Obama spends money like any business or past President but the deficit is going down Mr H. Going down like your credibility. Take your fear and hate of black men deep into the Indiana woods and stuff it.
Jonathan Banksmith

Stafford, TX

#68 Oct 22, 2013
Hoosier Hillbilly wrote:
Deery your talk'n away above my head but Clem makes sense, you want'a come down to our level
and explain your BS or convince others how brilliant you are?
=*= Just answer Clem's question =*=
"When the government gets first right of refusal, who you gonna appeal the decision to? "
Well I was right, you're stupid.

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#69 Oct 22, 2013
Hoosier Hillbilly wrote:
Deery your talk'n away above my head but Clem makes sense, you want'a come down to our level
and explain your BS or convince others how brilliant you are?
=*= Just answer Clem's question =*=
"When the government gets first right of refusal, who you gonna appeal the decision to? "
answered:

in simple terms, like it's been done in America and Canada : courts; up to and including SCOTUS

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/weird/T7U4E3F...

“Will cause trouble when bored”

Level 6

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#70 Oct 22, 2013
Hey deer whisperer so nicely said. ;) props on it all!!!

“So it's not you, It's them?”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#71 Oct 22, 2013
Hoosier Hillbilly wrote:
<quoted text>
Obama's entire presidency is built on this precept, he'll do anything in his power to make it succeed even though he's failed in all other respects even if it cost tax payers another small fortune, but that's not his concern because = he don't care!=.
His spending since he's been in office proves that, and if it hasn't what about what he's getting ready to spend? 20 Trillion before he's out of office - I guarantee it!
On your: "he's getting ready to spend 20 Trillion before he's out of office...?" comment above. Does that 20 Trillion include the 12+ Trillion Bush 41 / Reagan / Bush 43 already spent, Bush 43's fiscal commitment to spend 1+ Trillion in two off book wars and Bush 43's 650+ Million fiscal commitment to Medicare Part D?

Does that 20 Trillion include the Interest upon Interest that we've spent on that Bush 41 / Reagan / Bush 43 Deficit, some of it over the last 30+ years? Ex-VP Cheney famously told us "Deficits don't matter!" So if they didn't matter then, why do they matter so much to you now? Did you sleep through the 80s, Mr. Van Winkle?

“*Merry Christmas*”

Level 8

Since: Nov 12

Greensburg, IN

#72 Oct 22, 2013
Your Wrong Johnny!
Take your bigger than anyone Else's ego and stuff it!
Blacks got nothing to do with this, other than the fact Obama is one! " Which gave him the 'edge' on the 1st election, the second I'll never understand!

“*Merry Christmas*”

Level 8

Since: Nov 12

Greensburg, IN

#73 Oct 22, 2013
PS: and the “what ever!!” that can't speak English chimes in!
Jonathan Banksmith

Stafford, TX

#74 Oct 22, 2013
Chilli J wrote:
<quoted text>
On your: "he's getting ready to spend 20 Trillion before he's out of office...?" comment above. Does that 20 Trillion include the 12+ Trillion Bush 41 / Reagan / Bush 43 already spent, Bush 43's fiscal commitment to spend 1+ Trillion in two off book wars and Bush 43's 650+ Million fiscal commitment to Medicare Part D?
Does that 20 Trillion include the Interest upon Interest that we've spent on that Bush 41 / Reagan / Bush 43 Deficit, some of it over the last 30+ years? Ex-VP Cheney famously told us "Deficits don't matter!" So if they didn't matter then, why do they matter so much to you now? Did you sleep through the 80s, Mr. Van Winkle?
That's just it. You said it better than I. These GD petty teabaggers griping about ANY spending he does including the obligated spending brought on by The Decider in the early 2000s. They just don't use facts to lay blame
Jonathan Banksmith

Stafford, TX

#75 Oct 22, 2013
Hoosier Hillbilly wrote:
Your Wrong Johnny!
Take your bigger than anyone Else's ego and stuff it!
Blacks got nothing to do with this, other than the fact Obama is one! " Which gave him the 'edge' on the 1st election, the second I'll never understand!
"which gave him the edge", do you even hear yourself???

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#77 Oct 22, 2013
Lylah wrote:
Hey deer whisperer so nicely said. ;) props on it all!!!
Thanks, Lylah. Homework has to be done and not just key off of sound bites.

“Pillars of Creation....”

Level 4

Since: Jan 11

Into this world we're thrown

#78 Oct 22, 2013
Jonathan Banksmith wrote:
<quoted text>I looked at the ACA rates. Guess what? They're actually better than what I've been feeding a major insurance company for years. By far. What I don't want to see are great rates then have them jacked up later either. Time will tell.
How can they be better when they added risk? And I dont even know if you can call it risk since they are taking on people who are known to be sick.

“Will cause trouble when bored”

Level 6

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#79 Oct 22, 2013
Pfft lmfao just because u say I can't speak English doesn't make it so hillbilly. Calling names you know what that insinuates. **cough losing

“*Merry Christmas*”

Level 8

Since: Nov 12

Greensburg, IN

#80 Oct 22, 2013
The nonsense of you 2 behooves anyone of intelligence acknowledging your posts,
therefore I coincide to your ignorance.
Further more; recognize I will not confer with
you again, as some forums use to do, you have been edited form my respond list.

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#83 Oct 22, 2013
Jonathan Banksmith wrote:
<quoted text>That's just it. You said it better than I. These GD petty teabaggers griping about ANY spending he does including the obligated spending brought on by The Decider in the early 2000s. They just don't use facts to lay blame
And to add to Chilli's and your points ... in late 2008, G.W. Bush and H. Paulson (Sec. of the Treasury) realized U.S. was on the brink of economic Armageddon and put together that T.A.R.P. thing. And Paulson "begged" for Democratic votes in Congress to enact it to save our bacon.

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