created by: flbadcatowner | May 10, 2013

Weird

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Should the legal drinking age be lowered to 18?

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“I call it as I see it.”

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#104
May 13, 2013
 

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tallyho wrote:
<quoted text>
not arguing that point , but stats are so misleading
One must also consider that people in the U.S. often drive many more miles than those in other countries which can make the statistics very misleading as the U.S. is far less densely populated than the European countries and don't forget that vehicle ownership per adult tends to be very high in the U.S. compared to most of the rest of the world. Generally, mass transit is generally available only in cities in the U.S.

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#105
May 13, 2013
 

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I wouldn't say high, more ok, but high - nope...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countrie...

It has more to do with the population density in the US than car ownership.

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#106
May 13, 2013
 

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flbadcatowner wrote:
<quoted text>One must also consider that people in the U.S. often drive many more miles than those in other countries which can make the statistics very misleading as the U.S. is far less densely populated than the European countries and don't forget that vehicle ownership per adult tends to be very high in the U.S. compared to most of the rest of the world. Generally, mass transit is generally available only in cities in the U.S.
that was my point in general ...

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#107
May 13, 2013
 
flbadcatowner wrote:
<quoted text>Generally, mass transit is generally available only in cities in the U.S.
That's the point of mass transit - cities. Mass transit in the suburbs would be and is extremely expensive and highly unnecessary. Share-a-ride has become a more popular alternative to mass transit. In Chicago, the only mass transit available in surrounding counties to Chicago is the train. It all has to do with a city's population. Many smaller, less populated towns not only lack transit buses, but a taxi service as well.

Mass transit has proven to reduce traffic congestion as well as reduced parking requirements in large cities.

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#108
May 13, 2013
 

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Actually, both car ownership rates and miles driven which is affected by population density likely affect the number of alcohol related fatalities. Statistics mean little unless variables are properly accounted for.

One example of misleading statistics is with abortion. if you ask if abortion should be legal, most studies seem to indicate that about 60% or so will say yes. If you ask somebody if they are personally opposed to abortion, a similar result will be obtained, and both sides of the abortion issue will claim that a majority either is for or against abortion depending on where they stand on the issue. As to whether being for or against abortion helps or hurts a political candidate, it is really hard to say for certain, but I am inclined to think that abortion rights support is more likely to be a deal breaker at the polls than opposition to abortion, especially among the more religious people who do make up a substantial part of the electorate. Those who disagree with me are free to do so as I will qualify my statement as an opinion rather than a proven fact.

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#109
May 13, 2013
 

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victoria1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I find that this generation of teens and young adults drink and drive less than generations before them. It has been ingrained their entire lives that it's something that just isn't done, that it's illegal and often fatal.
Now for older generations, they still remember the days when drinking and driving was no big deal and many continue to do so.
Many a mornings I've woken up and seen my eldest son's friends cars lined up in my driveway because they all went out to the pub or club the night before and knew they'd drink so they left the cars behind to be picked up the next day.
I find that to be true, I have offered my son many opportunities to have a beer with me. He declines. He does occasionally drink, but nor=t nearly as much or as often as I did and do. His eldest daughter is still under age and I have also asked her if she wants a beer, and have been turned down every time. Which is what I would expect of this generation. Yet, at her age, I was drinking most every weekend.

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#110
May 13, 2013
 

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flbadcatowner wrote:
<quoted text>Do you want safer roads or more dangerous roads? We will have the latter with a lower drinking age.
When did you stop beating your wife.
That statement is as valid as yours. because I do not agree with your opinion, you throw out specious statements designed to provoke.
Of course i want safer roads, so as i said, why not raise the age limit on everything to 35, everything will be safer. I can still remember my under age drinking. I was just as responsible then asd now. It is a matter of training, education and how I was raised.

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#111
May 13, 2013
 
Mister Mysterious wrote:
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For the same reason we don't lower highway speed limits to 20 miles per hour - because after all, slower speeds do save lives right?
A social system based on laws has to reach a balance some where. Our particular society has decided that 21 is age for drinking. It can be argued that it is an arbitrary age.
But it makes less sense to just decide in a sweeping manner that because someone is allowed to do one thing at a certain age, they should be allowed to do EVERYTHING at that same age.
You do see the logic (or lack thereof, depending on your perspective) in that, don't you?
No, I don't, there is no logic there. If statistically speaking, Americans are more mature, more educated, better equipped emotionally and more able to grasp the concepts of law and the consequences of ones actions, then it would stand to reason that making ALL age related laws effective at 35 would be better for America. Right

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#112
May 13, 2013
 
flbadcatowner wrote:
Actually, both car ownership rates and miles driven which is affected by population density likely affect the number of alcohol related fatalities. Statistics mean little unless variables are properly accounted for.
Yeah, alcohol abuse and dependency likely wouldn't affect the number of alcohol-related fatalities.

"In 2001, excessive alcohol use was responsible for approximately 75,000 preventable deaths and 2.3 million YPLLs in the United States."

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm53...

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#113
May 13, 2013
 

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REDNECK HIPPIE wrote:
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When did you stop beating your wife.
That statement is as valid as yours. because I do not agree with your opinion, you throw out specious statements designed to provoke.
Of course i want safer roads, so as i said, why not raise the age limit on everything to 35, everything will be safer. I can still remember my under age drinking. I was just as responsible then asd now. It is a matter of training, education and how I was raised.
I have a different story to tell about my underage drinking, especially after flipping a car over at age 18 and emerging very fortunately with only a few minor abrasions and a whiplash injury. My parents would have handed my head to me if they knew I was drinking that night. I was also much more responsible at age 21 than at 18 as in the difference between night and day, and east and west. My case was also far from being unique. Most behaviorists will agree that the average 21 year old is much more responsible than somebody 18.

Statistics show that accident rates which are hest during teen years tend to drop steadily until about age 25 when they generally start leveling off which would make a 25 year old no more than marginally likely to be involved in an accident than a 35 year old. It would be very arbitrary to set a legal drinking age above 25 on accident likelyhood alone. Based on your own logic you could not make a valid case for raising it over the age of 25. and still be fair when accident statistics are factored in. And even at age 21, accident rates are considerably lower than at 18.

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#114
May 13, 2013
 

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REDNECK HIPPIE wrote:
<quoted text>
When did you stop beating your wife.
That statement is as valid as yours. because I do not agree with your opinion, you throw out specious statements designed to provoke.
Of course i want safer roads, so as i said, why not raise the age limit on everything to 35, everything will be safer. I can still remember my under age drinking. I was just as responsible then asd now. It is a matter of training, education and how I was raised.
Read what this link: has to say about drugs and alchohol:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/teenweb/more_btn6/traff...

Specifically this:

Alcohol and drugs
Driving under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs is a common cause of serious crashes, especially fatal ones, involving teenage drivers. Teenagers who drink and drive are at much greater risk of serious crashes than are older drivers with equal concentrations of alcohol in their blood.

It sounds like you are through the back door advocating a lower legal drinking age through the rhetorical device known as reductio ad absurdum.

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#115
May 13, 2013
 

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flbadcatowner wrote:
<quoted text>Read what this link: has to say about drugs and alchohol:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/teenweb/more_btn6/traff...
Specifically this:
Alcohol and drugs
Driving under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs is a common cause of serious crashes, especially fatal ones, involving teenage drivers. Teenagers who drink and drive are at much greater risk of serious crashes than are older drivers with equal concentrations of alcohol in their blood.
It sounds like you are through the back door advocating a lower legal drinking age through the rhetorical device known as reductio ad absurdum.
For starters, we're talking about alcohol - not drugs, abortion or percent of Fatal/Injury Crashes, 16- to 19-year-old drivers.

Secondly, your statement is idiotic:

"Actually, both car ownership rates and miles driven which is affected by population density likely affect the number of alcohol related fatalities. Statistics mean little unless variables are properly accounted for."

Alcohol abuse accounts for 100% of alcohol-related fatalities - why else would they call them "alcohol-related fatalities?"

Lastly, you condone statistical studies but yet cite them to bolster your erroneous viewpoints - not very smart.

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#116
May 13, 2013
 

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perhaps 18 and graduated... and the way the nation is going it still would be 21 for a lot of kids...
:)

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#117
May 13, 2013
 

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milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
For starters, we're talking about alcohol - not drugs, abortion or percent of Fatal/Injury Crashes, 16- to 19-year-old drivers.
Secondly, your statement is idiotic:
"Actually, both car ownership rates and miles driven which is affected by population density likely affect the number of alcohol related fatalities. Statistics mean little unless variables are properly accounted for."
Alcohol abuse accounts for 100% of alcohol-related fatalities - why else would they call them "alcohol-related fatalities?"
Lastly, you condone statistical studies but yet cite them to bolster your erroneous viewpoints - not very smart.
Considering your past overblown animosity vs. me and unwillingness to accept any and all dissent to your opinions, why should I not dismiss this as a cheap shot rather than accept it as legitimate debate? You take it all too personally and take yourself too seriously.

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#120
May 13, 2013
 

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flbadcatowner wrote:
<quoted text>I have a different story to tell about my underage drinking, especially after flipping a car over at age 18 and emerging very fortunately with only a few minor abrasions and a whiplash injury. My parents would have handed my head to me if they knew I was drinking that night. I was also much more responsible at age 21 than at 18 as in the difference between night and day, and east and west. My case was also far from being unique. Most behaviorists will agree that the average 21 year old is much more responsible than somebody 18.
Statistics show that accident rates which are hest during teen years tend to drop steadily until about age 25 when they generally start leveling off which would make a 25 year old no more than marginally likely to be involved in an accident than a 35 year old. It would be very arbitrary to set a legal drinking age above 25 on accident likelyhood alone. Based on your own logic you could not make a valid case for raising it over the age of 25. and still be fair when accident statistics are factored in. And even at age 21, accident rates are considerably lower than at 18.
I will concede the age difference. 25 works for my argument as well as 35. I used 35, because a previous poster had stated that you cannot run for President until age 35. So, that being said, if statistics and psycho babble state that 25 is the plateau, then everything from age of consent, to voting, to driving, trial by jury as an adult, to drinking should be mandated at 25.

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#122
May 13, 2013
 

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quilterqueen wrote:
When our young people go into the military they are trained before they go off to war. Who trains them how to drink responsibly?
... it should be the parents ... i had an interesting discussion on this subject ... my parents and their friends were the guys who came home from WW II and back then it was not unusual for men and women from the same city to be stationed together so they stayed friends after they came home ... as kids we watched them drink and i do remember seeing a few fall down drunks but that was the exception ... we also would get to take a sip of beer once in a while (never whiskey) and we pretty much learned by example ... the parents never approved of those who got fall down drunk in front of us kids ... we were able to drink at 18 back then in NY so that meant at 16 and 17 we had fake proof ... seeing how we all still lived at home we never would come home drunk because of the repercussions of our actions ... as we got older and went on to college and or the military we had the basic knowledge of... drink to much suffer the consequences ... my Dad would cut no slack at all we had to get up and do our chores and work no matter what ... Dad said no sympathy for self inflicted wounds ... now these kids today stay at home and usually the first time away from home is to go to college ... because of their not knowing and being away from home there gonna experiment which I believe leads to the most serious drinking ... binge drinking ... i read about students and others their age drinking a quart of vodka or some other drink and end up in hospitals getting their guts pumped out or dead from abuse ... they have games now like beer pong and how many shots can they drink in an hour,jell-o shots etc ... plus with all this flavored stuff out to disguise liqueurs taste is an invitation to drink and drink plenty ... i wonder how they would do drinking a shot of corby's and a beer ... the DUI laws are tough and they should be ... i told my kids and my nephews that my deal is i'll pay for the cab ride home and drive you to your car next day if need be with no questions asked but im not springin for the arrest costs or court costs which by the time your done with the lawyers,fines and other costs were talking about 7 grand for first offence ... now they draw drivers licences to see who will be the DD and that person is exempt from the next time ... so far so good ... but i'm still keeping my fingers crossed ... this is just my humble opinion and i do not want to get in a heated discussion over it ... bottom line it's up to the parents to teach their kids ...

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#123
May 13, 2013
 

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REDNECK HIPPIE wrote:
<quoted text>
I will concede the age difference. 25 works for my argument as well as 35. I used 35, because a previous poster had stated that you cannot run for President until age 35. So, that being said, if statistics and psycho babble state that 25 is the plateau, then everything from age of consent, to voting, to driving, trial by jury as an adult, to drinking should be mandated at 25.
I don't think I would go quite that far.

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#124
May 13, 2013
 

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This is a country where companies sell rifles to five year old's and people are arguing about drinking ages and driving? The GOP might have the right idea- NO laws except those regulating vagina's. It makes perfect sense if you don't think about it.

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#125
May 13, 2013
 

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Lol...kinda' like the crackhead giving advice to the heroin addict.

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#126
May 13, 2013
 

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mandate trial by jury ??????????

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