Valeria Jones was unhappy, explaining that pronouns which apply to everyone do not apply to Jones

Feb 10, 2014 Full story: 92.9 Y93 16

A person in Oregon named Valeria Jones is suing catering company Bon Apptit Management for $518,682 because coworkers used female names in reference to Jones despite the fact that Jones had continually expressed the desire to be addressed only with gender neutral pronouns.

Full Story
SteamRoller

Philadelphia, PA

#1 Feb 10, 2014
The it has really hit the fan.

(Trans and gender queer people as a political movement appear to be unbalanced and very, very controlling of others.)
Patooey

Medford, NY

#2 Feb 10, 2014
She's a moron.
You can tell her I said so.
GOD

Medford, NY

#3 Feb 10, 2014
"The coworkers said Jones looked like a woman—possibly some unidentified female celebrity.
Jones was unhappy, explaining that pronouns which apply to everyone do not apply to Jones and are “unwelcome” because Jones is “not a female or a male.”

Not a male or female?

I only made you people in TWO different types!!!!
Independent

United States

#4 Feb 10, 2014
How about, moronic brain dead freak.

It is gender neutral after all.....

:^`D
SteamRoller

Philadelphia, PA

#5 Feb 10, 2014
GOD wrote:
Not a male or female?
I only made you people in TWO different types!!!!
That is not true, of course. There are hermaphrodites and people who aren't sure of their gender psychologically or who feel their physical gender does not match their sense of their gender.

But how any of that translates into a half million dollar demand that others not use any gendered pronouns is way beyond me.

Now, if there were a pattern of mockery or workplace discrimination or harassment...then that is surely actionable. But that is all different from a demand to not "refer to me as 'she' or 'he,' ever."

Imagine if this person ever travels to France or Germany or elsewhere where the predominant languages are far more gendered than English....

Lawsuit heaven.

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#6 Feb 10, 2014
Spotted Girl?
GOD

Medford, NY

#7 Feb 10, 2014
SteamRoller wrote:
<quoted text>
That is not true, of course. There are hermaphrodites and people who aren't sure of their gender psychologically or who feel their physical gender does not match their sense of their gender.
But how any of that translates into a half million dollar demand that others not use any gendered pronouns is way beyond me.
Now, if there were a pattern of mockery or workplace discrimination or harassment...then that is surely actionable. But that is all different from a demand to not "refer to me as 'she' or 'he,' ever."
Imagine if this person ever travels to France or Germany or elsewhere where the predominant languages are far more gendered than English....
Lawsuit heaven.
When in doubt, go with what's on the birth certificate.
I made sure you people created that piece of evidence.

“We're all Bozos on this bus”

Since: Jan 07

Indianapolis, IN

#8 Feb 10, 2014
Call it 'It', then.
SteamRoller

Philadelphia, PA

#9 Feb 10, 2014
GOD wrote:
<quoted text>
When in doubt, go with what's on the birth certificate.
I made sure you people created that piece of evidence.
Of course you're wrong, gawd, like when you created fundamentalists.

Doctors who are unsure of the gender of a baby often just "choose" by surgically altering the genitals that are present. So a birth certificate may be quite arbitrary.

There's also chromosome and hormone and psychology to consider in gender, in addition to genitals. That's why gender testing for (Iranian) Olympic athletes can be so tricky.

Face it, you are merely expressing a black and white thinking style, a bias, in contravention of fact. Things are not always "either or."

This is all separate from whether this person's demands or legal claims upon others are legitimate.
GOD

Medford, NY

#11 Feb 11, 2014
SteamRoller wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course you're wrong, gawd, like when you created fundamentalists.
Doctors who are unsure of the gender of a baby often just "choose" by surgically altering the genitals that are present. So a birth certificate may be quite arbitrary.
There's also chromosome and hormone and psychology to consider in gender, in addition to genitals. That's why gender testing for (Iranian) Olympic athletes can be so tricky.
Face it, you are merely expressing a black and white thinking style, a bias, in contravention of fact. Things are not always "either or."
This is all separate from whether this person's demands or legal claims upon others are legitimate.
I understand your position, after all I made you.
At what age does the doctor surgically alter the genitals?
Surely not at birth, when it is obvious the childs sex (with the exception of a Hermaphrodite, which is highly uncommon). Whether a child is born male or female, with the exception for Hermaphrodites, is indeed black and white. I have spoken, so shall it be.
Marcavage s Trick

Philadelphia, PA

#13 Feb 11, 2014
GOD wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand your position, after all I made you.
At what age does the doctor surgically alter the genitals?
Surely not at birth, when it is obvious the childs sex (with the exception of a Hermaphrodite, which is highly uncommon). Whether a child is born male or female, with the exception for Hermaphrodites, is indeed black and white. I have spoken, so shall it be.
For gawd you sure don't know how to read so good.

As I explained, gender can also be, and most often is, defined by chromosomal makeup (or by hormone levels.) Genitals are just one aspect.

Yes, the cases of doctors altering gender refer to babies who are born with variant genitals, but these are still cases of the gender being (arbitrarily, without consent,) changed after birth. It can happen at birth or within a couple of years of birth.

Or later in life. Just like a trans person realizing years later (sometimes) that they identify as something different from their birth gender.

Gender is not black and white. We know this. You're thinking, however, is black and white.
GOD

Medford, NY

#14 Feb 12, 2014
Marcavage s Trick wrote:
<quoted text>
For gawd you sure don't know how to read so good.
As I explained, gender can also be, and most often is, defined by chromosomal makeup (or by hormone levels.) Genitals are just one aspect.
Yes, the cases of doctors altering gender refer to babies who are born with variant genitals, but these are still cases of the gender being (arbitrarily, without consent,) changed after birth. It can happen at birth or within a couple of years of birth.
Or later in life. Just like a trans person realizing years later (sometimes) that they identify as something different from their birth gender.
Gender is not black and white. We know this. You're thinking, however, is black and white.
It is understood that there are very little absolutes in this world, I made sure of that.
The cases you explained are so small that they should not be used to generalize arguments. In the vast majority of cases my birth certificate statements hold true.
By the way, many birth certificates are printed in black and white.

Amen...Be well my brother.
Marcavage s Trick

Philadelphia, PA

#15 Feb 12, 2014
GOD wrote:
<quoted text>
It is understood that there are very little absolutes in this world
Hey gawd, you sure are stupid. No wonder humans made in your image are so messed up.

And yes, you were saying things are absolute, either-or.

Hermaphrodites might be fairly rare, but as I explained to your tired, Abrahamic butt, that is only one component in cases where gender is unclear. Can you recall the other factors in determining gender? The ones I listed?

The Olympics, for example, could care less what a presented birth certificate says about gender. Everyone knows this.

“We're all Bozos on this bus”

Since: Jan 07

Indianapolis, IN

#16 Feb 12, 2014
Didn't Davy Jones sing a song about her?

“*Merry Christmas*”

Level 8

Since: Nov 12

Greensburg, IN

#17 Feb 12, 2014
Clem it's a whatever that can do itself, whatever it is.

“We're all Bozos on this bus”

Since: Jan 07

Indianapolis, IN

#18 Feb 12, 2014
I meant 'it'.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Weird Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
What song are you listening to right now? (Apr '08) 3 min _hellbilly_ 152,746
Evolution vs. Creation (Jul '11) 4 min dirtclod 133,736
***Keep a Word~Drop a Word*** (Jan '10) 18 min Roxie Darling 77,684
spirit girl where you be at (Jun '14) 46 min Suezanne 75
What's your tip for the day? 48 min Suezanne 1,840
Create "short sentences using the last word" (Aug '12) 1 hr Hoosier Hillbilly 7,611
Change-Six-Of-Six-Letters....Fun Game! 1 hr Hoosier Hillbilly 425
6 letter word ...change one letter game (Oct '08) 1 hr Hoosier Hillbilly 26,752
CHANGE One letter CHANCE (Sep '08) 1 hr Hoosier Hillbilly 30,053
BAN(N) the P0STER Above you !!! (Feb '14) 2 hr toad4754 2,990
What are you thinking about now? (Jun '10) 7 hr UnderstandPeople 25,837
More from around the web