Unions NOW Mad About Obamacare

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Level 8

Since: Aug 08

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#1 May 24, 2013
http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2...

LMFAO. My favorite comment from yahoo news on this article was something to the effect of:

HOLY SH!T, it was supposed to cost everyone else more, not us!!! We want a do over!!!

Pelosi was right, we JUST had to pass it before we could find out about all the wonderful things in it!!! Well duh, what kind of nut job actual discusses things and reads legislation before they pass legislation.

“ROCK ON ROCKERS!!”

Level 8

Since: Mar 11

Rockin' USA ;)

#2 May 24, 2013
Of FREAKIN' course..CONTROL FACTOR!!!

Level 8

Since: Nov 08

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#3 May 24, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
http://www.cleveland.com/busin ess/index.ssf/2013/05/some_uni ons_now_angry_about_he.html
LMFAO. My favorite comment from yahoo news on this article was something to the effect of:
HOLY SH!T, it was supposed to cost everyone else more, not us!!! We want a do over!!!
Pelosi was right, we JUST had to pass it before we could find out about all the wonderful things in it!!! Well duh, what kind of nut job actual discusses things and reads legislation before they pass legislation.
The Texas Senate is another good example...they realized after failing to vote to extend the Texas lottery the giant holes in revenue it would create...How did you not realize this before voting to end the lottery??? Texas lottery has since been extended.

http://www.texastribune.org/2013/04/23/house-...

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

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#4 May 24, 2013
There was another article the other day ... can't find it that said the revenue that was supposed to be generated by taxing "Cadillac health insurance plans" was greatly over-estimated and they think by the time the tax is actually implemented almost no company will be paying it (because, duh, companies are good at structuring their businesses to avoid unnecessary taxes). Which means even more of it will be unfunded and tacked onto our deficit.

Case in point, Verizon is pulling the Cadillac health plans from all their workers and their workers are pi$$ed and striking:

http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport/2011...

If they should be pi$$ed at anyone it should be their own unions who supported passage of the ACA:

"Since Verizon is already spending $4 billion per year covering 800,000 employees, retirees and their families, one might think the unions would have told their members that they may eventually have to give up the Cadillac in exchange for a Chevy. However, the unions didnítóeven though Verizon did more than a year ago."

Give up the Cadillac in exchange for a Chevy, ROFLMFAO.

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

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#5 May 24, 2013
DaveMC wrote:
<quoted text>The Texas Senate is another good example...they realized after failing to vote to extend the Texas lottery the giant holes in revenue it would create...How did you not realize this before voting to end the lottery??? Texas lottery has since been extended.
http://www.texastribune.org/2013/04/23/house-...
Hey, everyone makes mistakes. Democrats certainly don't have a monopoly on making mistakes.

The thing is, lottery is such a simple thing compared to a major overhaul of something as complex as national healthcare (I also presume the argument in favor of cancelling it is that it really preys on the backs of the least fortunate amongst us, which is true and hardly compassionate).

You don't overhaul our nations healthcare and just pass something like that willy nilly without thinking really hard, having extensive discussion and debate, and considering opposing view points. None of that happened, because the democrats rammed the f'ing thing through. I understand why they wanted to ram it through, i.e. because they were going to lose their majority, but the practical consequence of behaving in that manner is that it screws over so many folks and it is not a good piece of legislation.

Therefore, a lot of folks are mad, and rightfully so. Republicans aren't going to fix that mess either, especially considering democrats gave them the finger and refused any sort of compromise with them when they passed it.

A lot of those folks at Verizon who are going to have lesser healthcare plans, are ordinary joes, too. This stuff doesn't just affect folks like bill gates. It has made health insurance MORE costly for so many folks (mostly middle class)... some of who are just finding out now.

Level 8

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#6 May 24, 2013
*preys upon the least fortunate amongst us* I meant.

I never buy lotto tickets. First time in years was for the one last weekend and me and a buddy each kicked in $5 bucks.

Level 8

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#7 May 24, 2013
uncompassionate, too, I meant

“A *wink* and a smile!!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 10

USA

#8 May 24, 2013
I think with Obamacare it's going to be a wait and see kind of thing.

Most states are not sure of the costs.

“A *wink* and a smile!!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 10

USA

#9 May 24, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey, everyone makes mistakes. Democrats certainly don't have a monopoly on making mistakes.
The thing is, lottery is such a simple thing compared to a major overhaul of something as complex as national healthcare (I also presume the argument in favor of cancelling it is that it really preys on the backs of the least fortunate amongst us, which is true and hardly compassionate).
You don't overhaul our nations healthcare and just pass something like that willy nilly without thinking really hard, having extensive discussion and debate, and considering opposing view points. None of that happened, because the democrats rammed the f'ing thing through. I understand why they wanted to ram it through, i.e. because they were going to lose their majority, but the practical consequence of behaving in that manner is that it screws over so many folks and it is not a good piece of legislation.
Therefore, a lot of folks are mad, and rightfully so. Republicans aren't going to fix that mess either, especially considering democrats gave them the finger and refused any sort of compromise with them when they passed it.
A lot of those folks at Verizon who are going to have lesser healthcare plans, are ordinary joes, too. This stuff doesn't just affect folks like bill gates. It has made health insurance MORE costly for so many folks (mostly middle class)... some of who are just finding out now.
From what I understand they just wanted the bill passed and would work out the kinks later...As with most things new and different.
Changes will be made.

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

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#10 May 24, 2013
Ohio Cowgirl wrote:
<quoted text>
From what I understand they just wanted the bill passed and would work out the kinks later...As with most things new and different.
Changes will be made.
Why did they not try their best to work out the kinks as best you could at first? These problems that are popping up were not unforeseeable? Many folks have been warning of them since its inception. The left just thought everyone was a sore loser (According to them, the majority of Americans who did not support the bill when it was passed, were all sore losers)

I'll tell you why they didn't ... because they had control of both houses, were going to lose control of the house shortly, and didn't want to have thoughtful discussions because it would risk having to make compromises. So they rammed it through before control of the house changed.

While I certainly appreciate that the dems were never going to win over many of the republicans, they certainly could have won over at least some of the more moderate among the party, but in order to do so, would have required compromise and give and take.

Fix it? Republicans want nothing to do with it. They want it gone. Anyway you slice it the vast majority of folks get stuck paying more for healthcare. The only way to fix that is to get rid of it. It represents nothing more than another massive unending expansion of the welfare state.

Also when it comes to fixing it, do they think republicans are going to fix it to help the dems union cronies? Plese, if you play political hardball, you are foolish to expect that your opponents won't do likewise.

The kicker is OC, instead of ramming it down republicans throats, Obama could have come out smelling like a rose, passed much better legislation, and generated a lot of good will with a party he should have known he would have to work with to accomplish much of anything during his term, i.e. the republican party.

He could have said, guys, I ALREADY have the votes to pass the bill as it is now, but I want the hallmark of my term to be about bi-partisan cooperation (worked for Clinton) and I want to work with you guys to get things done for the American people. So, rather than ram this thing through, I I'm willing to take your thoughts and considerations in mind and get a bill passed that is truly bi-partisan. It would have been political genius and generated goodwill.

Instead he gave them the finger and that, right there, more than anything set the tone for his ENTIRE presidency. You can't give someone the finger, especially on something as important as national healthcare, and they say, hey, why won't you work with me, what is wrong with you guys ... I can't figure out why you don't like me ... it's cause I'm black ...

“A *wink* and a smile!!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 10

USA

#11 May 24, 2013
The night he got elected ( first time) a bunch of (R) went out to dinner and agreed they would fight him on everything he wanted as they wanted him to be a one term President no matter what his color was.

This is common knowledge so why would he try and work with ppl who from jump street wanted him out?

His way has been to try and work around them if they wouldn't work with him.

I agree the (kinks) should have been worked out but he was working on a time limit.

He was voted in twice, apparently ppl want Obamacare.

I talk with a guy in England and they have Universal Healthcare and love it so he tells me.

Since: Jun 09

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#12 May 24, 2013
Ohio Cowgirl wrote:
I think with Obamacare it's going to be a wait and see kind of thing.
Most states are not sure of the costs.
It is the law of the land, having survived 37 (and counting)*challenges* in the House and a test in the USSC. Because it hasn't been fully implemented, the Chicken Little's still have to run around drawing attention to themselves about this while they can.

“A *wink* and a smile!!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 10

USA

#13 May 24, 2013
Ferrerman wrote:
<quoted text>It is the law of the land, having survived 37 (and counting)*challenges* in the House and a test in the USSC. Because it hasn't been fully implemented, the Chicken Little's still have to run around drawing attention to themselves about this while they can.
Hi F-man..:) MISSED YA!

See that's my point. Nobody really knows about Obamacare. Most of us know it will be changed many times from the original draft.

As I said, it's a wait and see..

Level 8

Since: Nov 08

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#14 May 24, 2013
Sublime...I think the issue with our healthcare system pre-Affordable Health Care Act is it seemed to protect the insurer more than the insured and encompasses everything wrong with our politicians and corporate America today...in the last 8 years I saw my insurance premiums raise under a Republican administration every year and in the last three years my insurance premiums haven't gone up one cent. My insurance provider said under Obamacare I wouldn't actually see my premiums drop for another 4 years and that was a year ago. Over the past 8 years Ive paid almost $60,000 in coverage for my family and haven't used even a tiny fraction of that in healthcare. It is comforting for me to know that under the Affordable Care Act my insurance provider cant just drop me should one of my family members or I become deathly ill. Not everything about The Affordable Care Act is good but it seems to protect the insured more than the insurer...isn't that important??? We have to remember our elected politicians tend to lean toward protecting those lining their pockets instead of their constituents. We wont know the full effects of The Affordable Care Act for a few more years and like OC said tweaks will have to be made. I think posting links to politically biased websites is disingenuous. The article from Red State only paints part of the picture and is misleading at best. The union striking for Verizon wasn't due to Obamacare alone. Verizon had thrown as many as 100 concessions on the table and that was what was forcing the strike.

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

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#15 May 24, 2013
Ohio Cowgirl wrote:
The night he got elected ( first time) a bunch of (R) went out to dinner and agreed they would fight him on everything he wanted as they wanted him to be a one term President no matter what his color was.
This is common knowledge so why would he try and work with ppl who from jump street wanted him out?
As I said, I had no illusions that he would ever win over some in that party. There are moderates in both parties, however.
Ohio Cowgirl wrote:
His way has been to try and work around them if they wouldn't work with him.
I agree the (kinks) should have been worked out but he was working on a time limit.
He was voted in twice, apparently ppl want Obamacare.
I talk with a guy in England and they have Universal Healthcare and love it so he tells me.
He was elected because the republicans had a poor candidate. He got elected despite himself, and it really only came down to a couple of states. That 51% comment killed any chance he had too.

You love it until you have something seriously wrong with you like cancer and have to wait weeks or months longer to see a specialist. Thatís why folks from Canada have been known to come to the U.S.

The folks who benefit under universal healthcare are those who cannot afford or acquire insurance through work. Everyone else receives a lower level of care. I fail to see why those of us who have insurance, should have lesser quality so that those who donít have better quality.

ďThe inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.Ē

Winston Churchill

Thatís what universal healthcare does. Makes some folks far less miserable, since they get free heathcare merely because they exist, and the vast majority slightly more miserable, because they are stuck with a lower level of care than they otherwise would have without it. If you wanna risk your life and your families life and have lower care so someone can have better healthcare coverage, so be it.

“The Car”

Level 4

Since: May 13

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#16 May 24, 2013
Today's unions bear little resemblance to the unions of old. They have become bastions of ditto-heads that don't really think things through, but blindly following their 1-percenter leaders.

“A *wink* and a smile!!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 10

USA

#17 May 24, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
As I said, I had no illusions that he would ever win over some in that party. There are moderates in both parties, however.
<quoted text>
He was elected because the republicans had a poor candidate. He got elected despite himself, and it really only came down to a couple of states. That 51% comment killed any chance he had too.
You love it until you have something seriously wrong with you like cancer and have to wait weeks or months longer to see a specialist. Thatís why folks from Canada have been known to come to the U.S.
The folks who benefit under universal healthcare are those who cannot afford or acquire insurance through work. Everyone else receives a lower level of care. I fail to see why those of us who have insurance, should have lesser quality so that those who donít have better quality.
ďThe inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.Ē
Winston Churchill
Thatís what universal healthcare does. Makes some folks far less miserable, since they get free heathcare merely because they exist, and the vast majority slightly more miserable, because they are stuck with a lower level of care than they otherwise would have without it. If you wanna risk your life and your families life and have lower care so someone can have better healthcare coverage, so be it.
Dems see things one way. Rep see it another way. I'm an Independent so I try to see both sides.

You're right he probably got elected again because most didn't like Flip and Flop but the fact remains he still got elected.

I get it Sublime you don't like him or anything he does.

I think you make assumptions about things that have no come to pass yet.

There's no need for you to get huffy with me. I see you're a big guy( with a nice smile) but honey you don't scare me..:)

Whats that old sying?
They bigger they are the harder they fall.....

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#18 May 24, 2013
DaveMC wrote:
Sublime...I think the issue with our healthcare system pre-Affordable Health Care Act is it seemed to protect the insurer more than the insured and encompasses everything wrong with our politicians and corporate America today...in the last 8 years I saw my insurance premiums raise under a Republican administration every year and in the last three years my insurance premiums haven't gone up one cent. My insurance provider said under Obamacare I wouldn't actually see my premiums drop for another 4 years and that was a year ago. Over the past 8 years Ive paid almost $60,000 in coverage for my family and haven't used even a tiny fraction of that in healthcare. It is comforting for me to know that under the Affordable Care Act my insurance provider cant just drop me should one of my family members or I become deathly ill. Not everything about The Affordable Care Act is good but it seems to protect the insured more than the insurer...isn't that important??? We have to remember our elected politicians tend to lean toward protecting those lining their pockets instead of their constituents. We wont know the full effects of The Affordable Care Act for a few more years and like OC said tweaks will have to be made. I think posting links to politically biased websites is disingenuous. The article from Red State only paints part of the picture and is misleading at best. The union striking for Verizon wasn't due to Obamacare alone. Verizon had thrown as many as 100 concessions on the table and that was what was forcing the strike.
ITA, about the insurance companies. I think we need to do away with them. They are nothing more than middlemen.

You may have not had your rates go up, but you canít just look at it for yourself. You have to look at it as a system. Many folks have had theirs go up and everyone had their flex-spending account contributions capped at 2.5k. That cap alone is about a $500.00 additional tax on me, annually.(I can afford it, but certainly others cannot.

Even in my case it would be on thing if I paid more taxes and they system actually got fixed Ö THE BIG PROBLEM IS >>>>> NOTHING GOT FIXED Ö itís mostly just a cost shifting mechanism Ö we will keep this very inefficiently costly system in place (thatís why insurance and big pharma all signed onto it Ö in fact they make out like bandits cause they just have more folks to milk) and just have other folks pay for some folks to get into the racket. A small number of folks benefit. A large number of folks are worse off.

The lowest hanging fruit of all for cost savings too would have been to stop this nonsense where Americans pay 3 times what Canadians and many Europeans pay for the same pharmaceutical drugs (Iíve said this about a million times). Unless you are the small percentage of folks who actually work in that industry, who wouldnít have applauded that, regardless of your political affiliation.

I donít think the republicans will make any tweaks, unless they save money. The stuff the union folks are complaining about isnít going to save money Ö on the contrary, it will cost money. That money has to come from somewhere.

In terms of the strike, hereís another article from abcnews that says the cuts to their medical are at the heart of the strike (in addition to pension issues, please Ö I think everyone should have a 401k, like most folks in the private sector ... the stuff unions demand would get you laughed out of a job if you made such demands at most companies)

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/verizon-stri...

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

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#19 May 24, 2013
Ohio Cowgirl wrote:
<quoted text> Dems see things one way. Rep see it another way. I'm an Independent so I try to see both sides.
You're right he probably got elected again because most didn't like Flip and Flop but the fact remains he still got elected.
I get it Sublime you don't like him or anything he does.
I think you make assumptions about things that have no come to pass yet.
There's no need for you to get huffy with me. I see you're a big guy( with a nice smile) but honey you don't scare me..:)
Whats that old sying?
They bigger they are the harder they fall.....
He got re-elected for a second term, just like Bush did, not because he was liked by most. I hated voting for Bush the second time, but I felt I had no choice, given what the democrats had running against him. I thought Bush was a terrible President and quite possibly the worst one we have ever had.

The ONLY thing so far that I really did not like was obamacare.

I also think immigration reform is going to be a disaster from an entitlement cost perspective, but that seems to be a bi-partisan effort (I don't like the idea of providing 10-20 million mostly highly impoverished foreign nationals with a lifetime of free obamacare, foodstamps (already get them for their anchor babies), cash assistance, section 8 housing, SS, Medicare ... basically care from cradle to the grave). I thing our politicians are simply in it too see how many new votes they can grab and they are going to sell all Americans in order to win favor with this new class of potential voters.

Other than that, I think he's done alright, but Obamacare was a monumental f' up. I probably would have voted for him, but for Obamacare. There were some other things I would consider of minor annoyance that I have not liked, but I'm not going to like 100% of what any President does, even if I were President I'd probably feel I made mistakes in hindsight and not like some of the things I did.

When did I get huffy with you? Did I say anything disrespectful towards you? If so, I didn't mean to. I'm just presenting my views and trying to have an honest discussion. I thought things had been pretty civil, myself, b1tch <<<< I'm TOTALLY teasing with b1tch ... don't take it the wrong way.

<smiles>

“A *wink* and a smile!!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 10

USA

#20 May 24, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
He got re-elected for a second term, just like Bush did, not because he was liked by most. I hated voting for Bush the second time, but I felt I had no choice, given what the democrats had running against him. I thought Bush was a terrible President and quite possibly the worst one we have ever had.
The ONLY thing so far that I really did not like was obamacare.
I also think immigration reform is going to be a disaster from an entitlement cost perspective, but that seems to be a bi-partisan effort (I don't like the idea of providing 10-20 million mostly highly impoverished foreign nationals with a lifetime of free obamacare, foodstamps (already get them for their anchor babies), cash assistance, section 8 housing, SS, Medicare ... basically care from cradle to the grave). I thing our politicians are simply in it too see how many new votes they can grab and they are going to sell all Americans in order to win favor with this new class of potential voters.
Other than that, I think he's done alright, but Obamacare was a monumental f' up. I probably would have voted for him, but for Obamacare. There were some other things I would consider of minor annoyance that I have not liked, but I'm not going to like 100% of what any President does, even if I were President I'd probably feel I made mistakes in hindsight and not like some of the things I did.
When did I get huffy with you? Did I say anything disrespectful towards you? If so, I didn't mean to. I'm just presenting my views and trying to have an honest discussion. I thought things had been pretty civil, myself, b1tch <<<< I'm TOTALLY teasing with b1tch ... don't take it the wrong way.
<smiles>
As a general rule I'm not a bitch but if forced I can become one in a hot New York minute.

I took the wanted sub standard insurance for my family as a slap.

I want everyone to have healthcare, affordable healthcare.

As for immigration, your answer to that is a REP answer thinking all who enter the states will be on welfare. Some of those ppl have been here for years and work hard everyday just like you and I. They want what we want or already have.

ALL entitlements need to be revamped. There are way to many abusing the system. That includes whites...

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