“You think so?”

Level 8

Since: Nov 12

Greensburg, IN

#380 Apr 24, 2014
Republican politicians began backtracking on their support of Nevada anti-government rancher Cliven Bundy after the New York Times caught Bundy making (((racially-inflammatory))) remarks blaming African-Americans for willingly submiting to dependency on federal assistance.
“They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton,” Bundy was quoted as saying to a group of supporters last Saturday.“And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”
Line for line I would like to interpret the above 'as-to-what-he-was-saying
Line #1 The negro ( as it was perfectly correct to say 'in-his-time'/ mine too ) has failed to take advantage of their freedom from slavery, as is apparent by the number of unwed mothers, young blacks in jail because of the lack
of a responsible father and family experience, because they never had to be responsible for themselves as active
contributors to the family or any work experience.
Line #2 into #3 It's puzzling to think they might have actually been better off if they hadn't been freed, at least some-of-them, having a work ethic and a family for support to honor, respect, teach morals, and help them learn the merits of hard work.
The rest of line #3 and #4 The government has not been a good step-dad by handing out their living without them taking some responsibility for it [this includes the mothers].
{insert} Even when there is a father (maybe not husband), he doesn't admit living with them for fear they'd loose the government hand-out.
Were they actually freed? Are they now independent? Are they worse off \now/ than what they were before government started making their living for them?
I think that's what he was saying, and if it was, I'm in total agreement with him!
I see nothing -racist- about telling the truth. Contrary to what ever Holder thinks!
PS: In reference to Chilli's post above:
“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas,“and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do."
*=* I can defend his statement there in one word *=*
TRUTH!!!!
an opposing view

Mclean, VA

#381 Apr 24, 2014
African Americans made up 11.6 percent of the U.S. labor force — those employed or looking for work — in 2011.1 African Americans have comprised a gradually growing share of the U.S. labor force over time, rising from 10.9 percent in 1991. Overall, in 2011, 18 million Blacks were employed or looking for work, representing 61.4 percent of all African Americans, somewhat less than the 64.1 participation rate for all Americans.
A TROLL NAMED SLACK

Munith, MI

#382 Apr 24, 2014
11.6% of the work force and ONLY 12.6% of the population, that speaks volumes

I would imagine un-mached by any other segment of the population

“So it's not you, It's them?”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#384 Apr 25, 2014
Hoosier Hillbilly wrote:
Republican politicians began backtracking on their support of Nevada anti-government rancher Cliven Bundy after the New York Times caught Bundy making (((racially-inflammatory))) remarks blaming African-Americans for willingly submiting to dependency on federal assistance.
“They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton,” Bundy was quoted as saying to a group of supporters last Saturday.“And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”
Line for line I would like to interpret the above 'as-to-what-he-was-saying
Line #1 The negro ( as it was perfectly correct to say 'in-his-time'/ mine too ) has failed to take advantage of their freedom from slavery, as is apparent by the number of unwed mothers, young blacks in jail because of the lack
of a responsible father and family experience, because they never had to be responsible for themselves as active
contributors to the family or any work experience.
Line #2 into #3 It's puzzling to think they might have actually been better off if they hadn't been freed, at least some-of-them, having a work ethic and a family for support to honor, respect, teach morals, and help them learn the merits of hard work.
The rest of line #3 and #4 The government has not been a good step-dad by handing out their living without them taking some responsibility for it [this includes the mothers].
{insert} Even when there is a father (maybe not husband), he doesn't admit living with them for fear they'd loose the government hand-out.
Were they actually freed? Are they now independent? Are they worse off \now/ than what they were before government started making their living for them?
I think that's what he was saying, and if it was, I'm in total agreement with him!
I see nothing -racist- about telling the truth. Contrary to what ever Holder thinks!
PS: In reference to Chilli's post above:
“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas,“and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do."
*=* I can defend his statement there in one word *=*
TRUTH!!!!
I've seen similar inactivity and non-productivity, while driving by virtually every multi-unit Section 8 housing complex, across the U.S. This inactivity and non-productivity isn't restricted to Black communities. Sadly, I've also seen generational entitlement dependency, in Blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans and Whites. Virtually all folks living in abject poverty have poor work habits.

Had Cliven wondered whether ALL generationally dependent folks would be better off as slaves, he would have confirmed he's only a hypocrite (his family has been generationally dependent on Federal Government entitlements for years, so he's dependent). But he didn't do that, he spoke only of Blacks, confirming he's a hypocrite AND a racist. That Cliven, open mouth...insert foot!

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#385 Apr 25, 2014
justaguess wrote:
Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are cutting us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?
Define 'her' and you have all the answer you need...
I love history, don't you?!

'her' was the body of the female student we saw on the front page of the newspapers, and on the color TV, Kent State University (Kent, OH), one location of the college protests regarding the invasion of Cambodia (and secret ops in Laos maybe).

"Tin soldiers and Nixon comin' " ; that is to say, the proxies -- Ohio governor and the Ohio National Guard.

"Those were the days my friend" ....

All in the context boys .... war protests & a fee-cheat with court orders adjudicated. Yep, like comparing figs and pigs.

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#386 Apr 25, 2014
crooked lines wrote:
<quoted text>That's the thing- Mack, Bundy. Hannity, trolls here- they all have to say how "heavy-handed" the Federal gubmint is...after being in court with this POS for TWENTY YEARS.
The guy has been losing to them legally for those 20 years and has the temerity to act like the gubmint came out of nowhere with this!
And again, even thinking about sacrificing women and children is absolutely deplorable.
I have another BLM brain-fart: whether the enforcement action was done this year, or better done in the past with more timely court proceedings and decisions. There should have been multi-level agency coordination.

1. U.S. Marshals should been been involved for the bolstering the 'front-line' of the decision of the Federal court. I'm sure the BLM police function does have most, if not all, police powers; but they could have been focused on direct protection of the un-armed contingent of equipment operators and wrangles; BLM staff and contractors.

2. under cooperative authority, Nevada State Police would have had a pro-active role in having control of the non-fed part of the access road to fed. land, and the interstate (I-15?)

“You think so?”

Level 8

Since: Nov 12

Greensburg, IN

#388 Apr 25, 2014
Bushs Patriot Act Obama just extended it.

“You think so?”

Level 8

Since: Nov 12

Greensburg, IN

#389 Apr 25, 2014
Chilli J wrote:
<quoted text>
I've seen similar inactivity and non-productivity, while driving by virtually every multi-unit Section 8 housing complex, across the U.S. This inactivity and non-productivity isn't restricted to Black communities. Sadly, I've also seen generational entitlement dependency, in Blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans and Whites. Virtually all folks living in abject poverty have poor work habits.
Had Cliven wondered whether ALL generationally dependent folks would be better off as slaves, he would have confirmed he's only a hypocrite (his family has been generationally dependent on Federal Government entitlements for years, so he's dependent). But he didn't do that, he spoke only of Blacks, confirming he's a hypocrite AND a racist. That Cliven, open mouth...insert foot!
Chilli he didn't say it was restricted to Black communities, you did!
Why'd he pick on the blacks, he didn't like his microphone man.
You know the droopy drawers, cap sideways, piercings and tattoos all over his body

Chilli said: "his family has been generationally dependent on Federal Government entitlements for years"
you mind giving me a reference for that statement?

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#390 Apr 25, 2014
Al Ted and now Cliven wrote:
<quoted text>They could have more powers. I know that Game Wardens can enter homes without warrants. But, I don't imagine they are equipped for handling heavily armed gangs of miscreants like the Bundy Bunch.
It would have been interesting if Bundy had tried to pull this stunt in '07! But, of course, that was pre-Obama and his Patriot Act....
Having all police powers is likely true for Fed. rangers and National Park Police on appropriate Fed. owned and controlled property, for sure.

From personal conversation with some local cops and from my reading -- Indiana Conservation Officers (once known as game wardens) DO have all State Police powers PLUS authority to enforce fish and wildlife laws and regulations. Our State Police do not have that additional authority.

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#391 Apr 25, 2014
Hoosier Hillbilly wrote:
<quoted text>
Chilli he didn't say it was restricted to Black communities, you did!
Why'd he pick on the blacks, he didn't like his microphone man.
You know the droopy drawers, cap sideways, piercings and tattoos all over his body
Chilli said: "his family has been generationally dependent on Federal Government entitlements for years"
you mind giving me a reference for that statement?
I can help with that. Go back up the thread and re-read ** several posts ** which relates to ranchers using "free" land as their own until they had to pay paltry fees for using OUR land, not land just for Nevada citizens, but for ALL of us.

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#392 Apr 25, 2014
Hoosier Hillbilly wrote:
<quoted text>
Chilli he didn't say it was restricted to Black communities, you did!
Why'd he pick on the blacks, he didn't like his microphone man.
You know the droopy drawers, cap sideways, piercings and tattoos all over his body
Chilli said: "his family has been generationally dependent on Federal Government entitlements for years"
you mind giving me a reference for that statement?
Bundy said a lot of things in the last couple of weeks. I hope these press conferences continue for awhile -----

Cliven Bundy: "and they was able to have their family structure together"?

I guess that whole aspect of slavery, you know, the one that said your family was NOT yours, but your owners, when your children/ husband/wife/mother could be taken away and sold at any time, escaped this brilliant welfare queen's notice.

What an entitled brilliant welfare queen!!

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#393 Apr 25, 2014
Hoosier Hillbilly wrote:
<quoted text>
Chilli he didn't say it was restricted to Black communities, you did!
Why'd he pick on the blacks, he didn't like his microphone man.
You know the droopy drawers, cap sideways, piercings and tattoos all over his body
Chilli said: "his family has been generationally dependent on Federal Government entitlements for years"
you mind giving me a reference for that statement?
I'm not Chilli but here's one.
You keep trying to put a bow and lipstick on it.
He has not payed for grazing rights for 20 years. So essentially we are feeding his cows for him. Cows he turns around and sells for profit. What would you call that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#395 Apr 25, 2014
http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/grazing.html

**** The unregulated grazing that took place before enactment of the Taylor Grazing Act caused unintended damage to soil, plants, streams, and springs. As a result, grazing management was initially designed to increase productivity and reduce soil erosion by controlling grazing through both fencing and water projects and by conducting forage surveys to balance forage demands with the land’s productivity (“carrying capacity”).

These initial improvements in livestock management, which arrested the degradation of public rangelands while improving watersheds, were appropriate for the times. But by the 1960s and 1970s, public appreciation for public lands and expectations for their management rose to a new level, as made clear by congressional passage of such laws as the National Environmental Policy Act of 1969, the Endangered Species Act of 1973, and the Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976. Consequently, the BLM moved from managing grazing in general to better management or protection of specific rangeland resources, such as riparian areas, threatened and endangered species, sensitive plant species, and cultural or historical objects. Consistent with this enhanced role, the Bureau developed or modified the terms and conditions of grazing permits and leases and implemented new range improvement projects to address these specific resource issues, promoting continued improvement of public rangeland conditions.

The Role of Livestock Grazing on Public Lands Today

Grazing, which was one of the earliest uses of public lands when the West was settled, continues to be an important use of those same lands today. Livestock grazing now competes with more uses than it did in the past, as other industries and the general public look to the public lands as sources of both conventional and renewable energy and as places for outdoor recreational opportunities, including off-highway vehicle use. Among the key issues that face public land managers today are global climate change, severe wildfires, invasive plant species, and dramatic population increases, including the associated rural residential development that is occurring throughout the West.

Livestock grazing can result in impacts on public land resources, but well-managed grazing provides numerous environmental benefits as well. For example, while livestock grazing can lead to increases in some invasive species, well-managed grazing can be used to manage vegetation. Intensively managed “targeted” grazing can control some invasive plant species or reduce the fuels that contribute to severe wildfires. Besides providing such traditional products as meat and fiber, well-managed rangelands and other private ranch lands support healthy watersheds, carbon sequestration, recreational opportunities, and wildlife habitat. Livestock grazing on public lands helps maintain the private ranches that, in turn, preserve the open spaces that have helped write the West’s history and will continue to shape this region’s character in the years to come.***

grazing regulations:
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#396 Apr 25, 2014
All public lands -- and waters -- no matter the jurisdiction level ( local, state, national) having conflicting and competing interests to manage: preservation (restricted or very restricted use), conservation (wise use for sustainable resources), and development (for profit).

As was mentioned in a previous post "way up there", much modern management is for multiple-use, for the benefit and/or enjoyment of 'the many' in contrast to 'the few'.

To mitigate humans' capacity to devastate their environment, another way of thinking emerged. H.D. Thoreau's essays on nature were and are enjoyed and pondered "about the pond".

Contemporaries like John Muir, Gifford Pinchot, and Theodore Roosevelt got things done about conservation of natural resources.

Aldo Leopold, who began as a "wise use" (Pinchot) student but morphed to incorporate ideas of Muir (preservation) scribed poignant verse about ecology and natural resources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Muir

Scottish-American naturalist, author, and early advocate of preservation of wilderness in the United States. His letters, essays, and books telling of his adventures in nature, especially in the Sierra Nevada mountains of California, have been read by millions. His activism helped to preserve the Yosemite Valley, Sequoia National Park and other wilderness areas. The Sierra Club, which he founded, is now one of the most important conservation organizations in the United States. One of the best-known hiking trails in the U.S., the 211-mile (340 km) John Muir Trail, was named in his honor.[2] Other such places include Muir Woods National Monument, Muir Beach, John Muir College, Mount Muir, Camp Muir and Muir Glacier.

In his later life, Muir devoted most of his time to the preservation of the Western forests. He petitioned the U.S. Congress for the National Park bill that was passed in 1890, establishing Yosemite and Sequoia National Parks. The spiritual quality and enthusiasm toward nature expressed in his writings inspired readers, including presidents and congressmen, to take action to help preserve large nature areas.[3] He is today referred to as the "Father of the National Parks"[4

In July 1896, Muir became associated with Gifford Pinchot, a national leader in the conservation movement. Pinchot was the first head of the United States Forest Service and a leading spokesman for the sustainable use of natural resources for the benefit of the people. His views eventually clashed with Muir's and highlighted two diverging views of the use of the country's natural resources. Pinchot saw conservation as a means of managing the nation's natural resources for long-term sustainable commercial use. As a professional forester, his view was that "forestry is tree farming," without destroying the long-term viability of the forests.[30] Muir valued nature for its spiritual and transcendental qualities. In one essay about the National Parks, he referred to them as "places for rest, inspiration, and prayers." He often encouraged city dwellers to experience nature for its spiritual nourishment. Both men opposed reckless exploitation of natural resources, including clear-cutting of forests. Even Muir acknowledged the need for timber and the forests to provide it, but Pinchot's view of wilderness management was more resource-oriented.[30]

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#397 Apr 25, 2014
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Th...

Roosevelt was a prominent conservationist, putting the issue high on the national agenda. He worked with all the major figures of the movement, especially his chief advisor on the matter, Gifford Pinchot. Roosevelt was deeply committed to conserving natural resources, and is considered to be the nation's first conservation President. He encouraged the Newlands Reclamation Act of 1902 to promote federal construction of dams to irrigate small farms and placed 230 million acres (360,000 mi² or 930,000 km²) under federal protection. Roosevelt set aside more Federal land, national parks, and nature preserves than all of his predecessors combined.[19]

Roosevelt established the United States Forest Service, signed into law the creation of five National Parks, and signed the 1906 Antiquities Act, under which he proclaimed 18 new U.S. National Monuments. He also established the first 51 Bird Reserves, four Game Preserves, and 150 National Forests, including Shoshone National Forest, the nation's first. The area of the United States that he placed under public protection totals approximately 230,000,000 acres (930,000 km2).

Gifford Pinchot had been appointed by McKinley as chief of Division of Forestry in the Department of Agriculture. In 1905, his department gained control of the national forest reserves. Pinchot promoted private use (for a fee) under federal supervision. In 1907, Roosevelt designated 16 million acres (65,000 km²) of new national forests just minutes before a deadline.

In May 1908, Roosevelt sponsored the Conference of Governors held in the White House, with a focus on natural resources and their most efficient use. Roosevelt delivered the opening address: "Conservation as a National Duty."

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#398 Apr 25, 2014
http://www.google.com/search...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Sand_County_Al...

A Sand County Almanac is a combination of natural history, scene painting with words, and philosophy. It is perhaps best known for the following quote, which defines his land ethic: "A thing is right when it tends to preserve the integrity, stability, and beauty of the biotic community. It is wrong when it tends otherwise."

In the original publishing, the book begins with a set of essays under the heading "Sand County Almanac," which is divided into twelve segments, one for each month. These essays mostly follow the changes in the ecology on Leopold's farm near Baraboo, Wisconsin.(There is, in fact, no "Sand County" in Wisconsin. The term "sand counties" refers to a section of the state marked by sandy soils). There are anecdotes and observations about flora and fauna reactions to the seasons as well as mentions of conservation topics.

The second section of the book, "Sketches Here and There," shifts the rhetorical focus from time to place. The essays are thematically organized around farms and wildernesses in Canada, Mexico and the United States. Some of these essays are autobiographical. "Red Legs Kicking," for example, recounts Leopold's boyhood experience of hunting in Iowa. The seminal essay "Thinking Like a Mountain" recalls another hunting experience later in life that was formative for Leopold's later views. Here Leopold describes the death of a she-wolf killed by his party during a time when conservationists were operating under the assumption that elimination of top predators would make game plentiful. The essay provides a non-technical characterization of the trophic cascade where the removal of single species carries serious implications for the rest of the ecosystem.[2]

The book ends with a section of philosophical essays grouped together under the heading "The Upshot". Here Leopold explores ironies of conservation: in order to promote wider appreciation of wild nature and engender necessary political support, one encourages recreational usage of wilderness that ultimately destroys it. Musings on "trophies" contrasts the way that some need a physical specimen to prove their conquest into the wilderness, though photographs may be less damaging than a trophy head to be mounted on the wall. He suggests that the best trophy is the experience of wilderness itself, along with its character building aspects. Leopold also rails against the way that policy makers need to find an economic motive for conservation.

In the concluding essay, "A Land Ethic", Leopold delves into a more appropriate rationale for conservation. In "The Ecological Conscience" section, he wrote: "Conservation is a state of harmony between men and land." Leopold felt it was generally agreed that more conservation education was needed; however quantity and content were up for debate. He believed that land is not a commodity to be possessed; rather, humans must have mutual respect for Earth in order not to destroy it. He also puts forth the idea that humans will never be free if they have no wild spaces in which to roam.
John

Columbus, OH

#399 Apr 25, 2014
Hoosier Hillbilly wrote:
<quoted text>
Chilli he didn't say it was restricted to Black communities, you did!
Why'd he pick on the blacks, he didn't like his microphone man.
You know the droopy drawers, cap sideways, piercings and tattoos all over his body
Chilli said: "his family has been generationally dependent on Federal Government entitlements for years"
you mind giving me a reference for that statement?
His ranch is 160 acres. That will support one cow? Hes been grazing 900 cow for free on public land since 1954? He probably sells half a million dollars worth of cows some years

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#400 Apr 25, 2014
The land ethic simply enlarges the boundaries of the community to include soils, waters, plants, and animals, or collectively: the land."

"This sounds simple: do we not already sing our love for and obligation to the land of the free and the home of the brave? Yes, but just what and whom do we love? Certainly not the soil, which we are sending helter-skelter down river. Certainly not the waters, which we assume have no function except to turn turbines, float barges, and carry off sewage. Certainly not the plants, of which we exterminate whole communities without batting an eye. Certainly not the animals, of which we have already extirpated many of the largest and most beautiful species. A land ethic of course cannot prevent the alteration, management, and use of these ‘resources,’ but it does affirm their right to continued existence, and, at least in spots, their continued existence in a natural state. In short, a land ethic changes the role of Homo sapiens from conqueror of the land-community to plain member and citizen of it. It implies respect for his fellow-members, and also respect for the community as such." ~~~ Aldo Leopold, in his book A Sand County Almanac (1949).

Rethinking the importance of predators in the balance of nature resulted in the return of bears and mountain lions to New Mexico wilderness areas. and similar conclusions that killing a predator wolf carries serious implications for the rest of the ecosystem.

Leopold wasn't alone in understanding predator-prey relationships. A National Park scientist studied coyotes and wolves. Murie was key in saving wolves from eradication in Denali National Park and the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolph_Murie

“You think so?”

Level 8

Since: Nov 12

Greensburg, IN

#401 Apr 25, 2014
Let me 'rip' this down to what's really going on.
She said:"Just TLC"
You keep trying to put a bow and lipstick on it.
#* No bow no lipstick:
Clivy has been getting by with grazing his cattle on federal land for many years, in his heart he knows it's wrong, but the old man has principles and will not admit to being wrong - know anyone else like that? He's made excuses for himself so long he now believes them - does that sound familiar also.
He has not payed for grazing rights for 20 years.
So essentially ((we))/// you got a mouse in your pocket Just?/// They're eating grass and fertilizing and tilling the ground...maybe the government owes him?/// are feeding his cows for him. Cows he turns around and sells for profit. What would you call that?[Getting by with it] same as he does! When he sells those cattle the government gets taxes from him and the buyers, when he files his fed. taxes on personal profit the government gets more money, when he spends some of the money he made selling cattle the gov. gets more money ... are you beginning to get the picture here?
I understand the man, same as I did Ron Paul, and agree with what their thinking, but their
unusual way way of getting their point across loses effectiveness in how they say it.
Old school ways are so much different than todays we can't understand each other, just like you couldn't understand what your parents were trying to say if your over 40 years old. That's when kids stop listening all together.
John

Columbus, OH

#403 Apr 25, 2014
Hoosier Hillbilly wrote:
They're eating grass and fertilizing and tilling the ground...maybe the government owes him?/// are feeding his cows for him.
He's not improving the land by running cows on it. Blm spends more than they take in fees

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