“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#359 Apr 23, 2014
Independent wrote:
<quoted text>
Your article "debunks" nothing.
It disagrees, which is proof of nothing.
Your article also makes a spurious statement....""If Bundy “owns the land then where is the deed?"
Bundy has never claimed ownership of the land, only grazing rights.
That fact alone "debunks" your article.
https://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publica...
http://capitalismmagazine.com/2014/04/cliven-...
From the magic of the internet, it is established that the fiction novelist Edward Cline has the exact article posted on these two 'web-zines', or 'web-logs'(!). I'm sure Mr. Cline appreciates proteges, it should be flattering.

With that said, the question remains -- who the hell is Laron Fred Woods, and why should we care?

1. a BLM historian?
2. a repository of BLM records?
3. a Utah citizen?
4. a Top Commenter?
----------
Land *** sales ***, not grazing rights, were what the GLO was about, as well as surveying.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Land_Off...

***** The GLO oversaw the surveying, platting and sale of the public lands in the Western United States and administered the Homestead Act[2] and the Preemption Act in disposal of public lands. The frantic pace of Public Land sales in the 19th century American west led to the idiomatic expression "Land Office business", meaning a thriving or high-volume trade.

Beginning in the early 20th century, the GLO shifted from a primary function of land sales to issuing leases and collecting grazing fees for livestock fattened on public lands, and royalties from minerals off lands recently withdrawn from disposal under the Withdrawal Act of 1910, as well as other custodial duties. Thus, beginning in approximately 1900, the GLO gained a focus for conservation of renewable public resources, as well as for their exploitation.*****

from a more regional source, and surely one that would get to the facts:

http://www.mynews3.com/mostpopular/story/TIME...

**** January 1867 -- Conflicts between the federal and Utah territorial governments keep the issue of land ownership on hold until 1868. Meanwhile, Congress carves away large portions of the Utah Territory, adding them to neighboring territories and states, including Nevada and New Mexico.

beginning 1869 -- The government establishes the first General Land Office in Salt Lake City to begin selling lands in the public domain. After an individual completes the requirements for a land entry, his case file is sent to Washington, D.C. This office confirms everything is in order and issues a patent (official land title) transferring the rights of land ownership from the government to the person.*****

Nope, no grazing rights; land ownership "carried the day".

So, who is Laron Fred Woods?

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#360 Apr 23, 2014
crooked lines wrote:
I'm just glad that no one- especially the women and children these militia mooks planned to sacrifice- were hurt. What a deathly stupid line to even consider drawing in the sand, solely for the pathetic, thieving greed of one dead beat. The damage to their *movement* has been done. They backed the wrong hatriot.
"I'm just glad that no one" yep, and someone was in this thread earlier with the same thought in which I agree: there was no one killed or seriously hurt last week.

I guess when lawful enforcement actions are undertaken, those procedures should be restricted to using hypnosis only. There will be no physical interference then; no culpability, no consequences.

There is police brutality as we all know; 1) some campus mope using a 'mega-can' of pepper spray point-blank in the faces of sitting, non-physical, protesters, 2) some idiot with a "frozen trigger finger" on his taser as the perp is prone and incapacitated, 3) cops pounding and kicking the shit out of someone prone on the ground, 4) any excessive force relative to the threat of an out-of-control situation -- and of course, 5) the trigger-happy ones with their service weapons, e.g. the Albuquerque PD being investigated.

Yes, thank God no one was killed.

“\\\ Always Thinking ///”

Level 8

Since: Nov 12

Greensburg, IN

#361 Apr 23, 2014
WOW! DW you spout off @'me' and then you produce this, what kind of a disenfranchised freak are you?

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#362 Apr 23, 2014
crooked lines wrote:
I'm just glad that no one- especially the women and children these militia mooks planned to sacrifice- were hurt. What a deathly stupid line to even consider drawing in the sand, solely for the pathetic, thieving greed of one dead beat. The damage to their *movement* has been done. They backed the wrong hatriot.
That reminds me: I do fault the BLM on two counts. They accommodated, essentially compromised with, Bundy for *so* long before these court actions and decisions. They've taken much criticism about that. Moreover, BLM should have had the foresight to be in front, be transparent, regarding the PR propaganda blitzkrieg rained upon with the start of the roundup and Mrs. Bundy'n'nem getting the word out about the range war and associated invitation. There was not much spontaneous, or spurious, on the Bundy side. Nope.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/15/rich...
***** Richard Mack, a Bundy supporter who served as sheriff of Graham County, Ariz., between 1988-1997, told Fox News on Monday about a planned strategy if "rogue federal agents" had opened fire.

“We were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front,” he said on Fox News, according to TheBlaze.com .“If they are going to start shooting, it’s going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers.”

Mack admits that his plan to put women in the line of fire "sounds horrible," but told radio host Ben Swann it was the only way to get the world to recognize "how ruthless" the federal agents are.

“If they’re going to start killing people, I’m sorry, but to show the world how ruthless these people are, women needed to be the first ones shot. I’m sorry, that sounds horrible. I would have put my own wife or daughters there, and I would have been screaming bloody murder to watch them die. I would've gone next, I would have been the next one to be killed. I’m not afraid to die here. I’m willing to die here.

“But the best ploy would be to have had women at the front. Because, one, I don’t think they would have shot them. And, two, if they had, it would have been the worst thing that we could have shown to the rest of the world, that these ruthless cowards hired by the federal government will do anything.”****

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#363 Apr 23, 2014
and Ben Swann had it:
http://benswann.com/truth-did-bundy-ranch-pro...

as this site below reports, Mack's strategy was reported by The Blaze -- and I read that Blaze the other day [DW] And Mack said it on FOX.

This site as well as the others ain't lying about it.
http://freakoutnation.com/2014/04/14/courageo...

by Anomaly April 14, 2014

********* The Conservative site The Blaze reported on the Bundy Ranch ‘range war’ and revealed that Former Arizona Sheriff Richard Mack and other organizers who joined the protest during his land dispute with the feds planned to put women on the front lines in case the “rogue federal officers” started shooting.

Mack said on Fox News,“We were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front. If they are going to start shooting, it’s going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers.”********
----------

So, is a response like this a surprise?

No, shouldn't think so.

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/04/cliven-bund...

by Karoli April 14, 2014

*** "If being a patriot means behaving like Iraqi soldiers under Saddam Hussein, I'll choose the opposite approach, thank you. As a woman, I have to wonder why on earth any women would follow behind these disgusting people and agree to put themselves out there as cannon fodder. That question is probably best left to experts, because it just boggles my mind." ***

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#364 Apr 23, 2014
Hoosier Hillbilly wrote:
WOW! DW you spout off @'me' and then you produce this, what kind of a disenfranchised freak are you?
"disenfranchised" ??-- who me? Hardly; I'm not the ethnic target of such. I'm safe.

“\\\ Always Thinking ///”

Level 8

Since: Nov 12

Greensburg, IN

#365 Apr 23, 2014
boggles my mind
enough said

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#366 Apr 23, 2014
LOST IN MISSISSIPPI wrote:
Bundy's grandfather purchased the grazing rights to that land in 1880 from the General Land Office, the GLO was a federal agency. Notice I said he purchased the grazing rights. In 1946 the BLM was formed and took over all federal lands and at some point they decided they did not have to honor the old agreements. The government is willing to ignore that fact much like it ignores agreements with Indian Tribes.
Another problem the BLM has, and why I think they decided to round up the cattle using force, is it is quite possible that Bundy has prescriptive rights to that property since his family has been continually using that property for 140 years.
According to Merriam-Webster
ter·ror·ism noun: the use of violent acts to frighten the people in an area as a way of trying to achieve a political goal.
"Bundy's grandfather purchased the grazing rights to that land in 1880 from the General Land Office, the GLO was a federal agency. Notice I said he purchased the grazing rights. In 1946 the BLM was formed and took over all federal lands and at some point they decided they did not have to honor the old agreements. The government is willing to ignore that fact much like it ignores agreements with Indian Tribes."

Hey!! Maybe you know who Laron Fred Woods is??!!

“Truth + context + perspective”

Since: Nov 09

informs against BS

#367 Apr 23, 2014
Hoosier Hillbilly wrote:
A rancher's armed battle against the US government is standard libertarian fare
This is a very good article that spells the problem out in a logical,
common sense way for everyone to consider.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014...
Excerpt:
Cliven Bundy’s armed standoff with the National Park Service and the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) is the latest flare-up in a long, ongoing, often-paranoid revolt against federal ownership public lands, even the idea of a public interest at all.
He's part of a small group of extreme libertarians, corporate profiteers, armed militia members and livestock ranchers who have tried before to seize control of public lands, who nurture an intense hatred of the federal government, and who have a long history of violent eruptions going back to the failed “sagebrush rebellions” of the 20th century and before.
I personally see a strong resemblance between him and the Federal Gov. Both have by-far overstepped their bounds in consideration for the rights of others. They're like 2 spoiled kids each benefiting from a country that has too much
to take advantage of which neither had much to do with. Greedy, self righteous, bigots (chauvinist, partisan), that have far too long had their way. Maybe it's good they've locked horns, there may be a lesson for both.
Since your last paragraph is your own, and not part of the article linked, it's a good thing to include the ending paragraphs of said article:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014...

**** The great irony here, or perhaps manipulation, is that while Bundy has wrapped his range war in the flag of states-rights and the sanctity of county and federal governments, his twenty-year stint as a freeloading trespasser has trampled county and state laws and policies just as thoroughly as federal laws. His refusal to recognize federal lands, for example, is in direct contradiction with the Nevada State Constitution.

His old grazing permit was eventually purchased by Clark County which used its grazing-free status as legally required mitigation to offset habitat destruction elsewhere in the county. Bundy’s trespass cattle violate the county's policy. His zone of trespass moreover, has expanded over the years to include National Park Service and state lands, including the latter’s Overton Wildlife Manage Area. One of his bulls attacked a state ranger in the Overton Wildlife area while illegally trespassing there.

His cattle have also trespassed on and damaged golf courses, private gardens and community gardens.

Patriotism is indeed the last recourse to which a scoundrel clings. Bundy’s local patriotism seems to end as soon as state and county public interests get in the way of his business interests. With his militia gathered round him, he may prove true that if you steal a little they throw you in jail, but steal a lot and they make you king.

For a little while.****

“\\\ Always Thinking ///”

Level 8

Since: Nov 12

Greensburg, IN

#369 Apr 23, 2014
they decided they did not have to honor the old agreements. The government is willing to ignore that fact much like it ignores agreements with Indian Tribes."

Did you hear what the Indian said when standing on the rock in the video I put on here?
He said it would be the 'white mans' turn next.
Yes! they think they run this country/ and they have/ and it's up to "US" to
stop them/ 1st by passing a law that they can only serve 2 consecutive terms/ that's after we kick those that already have out!!!
It will have to me done my a majority of states vote, they'd never do it to themselves. The Tea Party is the only ones advocating it.
Guarantee you that would wake the federal government up!!!
& *=* get'm OUT!!!*=*
Independent

United States

#370 Apr 23, 2014
Chilli J wrote:
You get a site that quotes relevant parts of the Nevada Constitution, which does not support your preconceived notion that Cliven is some brave patriot, not the deadbeat, whiny multi-millionaire malcontent that he apparently is. Then you pick one sentence out of the article and declare that it's spurious? Then you provide two biased Tea Party sites, to try to "support" your POV?
You bias might be showing, bud... Thanks for the laugh.
I always find it entertaining to hear the colorful insults that take the place of articulation.

Demagogue much?
space cowboy

San Jose, CA

#371 Apr 23, 2014
LOST IN MISSISSIPPI wrote:
Bundy's grandfather purchased the grazing rights to that land in 1880 from the General Land Office, the GLO was a federal agency. Notice I said he purchased the grazing rights. In 1946 the BLM was formed and took over all federal lands and at some point they decided they did not have to honor the old agreements. The government is willing to ignore that fact much like it ignores agreements with Indian Tribes.
Another problem the BLM has, and why I think they decided to round up the cattle using force, is it is quite possible that Bundy has prescriptive rights to that property since his family has been continually using that property for 140 years.
This has been through the courts. He had pretty much exausted his appeals in 98. They should have settled it then. The Bush adminstration had 8 years to do something, and they probably didn't want the political repercussions either. I found this news article with bing but I dont guess it tells the whole story-

A 1998 opinion from U.S. District Judge Johnnie Rawlinson in a case where it was determined Bundy wouldn’t be allowed to use federal land for his cattle because of failure to pay grazing fees to the Bureau of Land Management. Rawlinson wrote that it wasn’t until roughly 1954 that “Bundy or his father or both have grazed livestock on public lands owned by the United States and administered by the BLM.”

Clark County Recorder documents show the 160-acre Bunkerville ranch Bundy calls home was purchased by his parents on Jan. 5, 1948. The purchase included the transfer to the Bundys of certain water rights, including water from the nearby Virgin River. Cliven Bundy was born in 1946

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25302186/an-abb...

“So it's not you, It's them?”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#372 Apr 23, 2014
Independent wrote:
<quoted text>
I always find it entertaining to hear the colorful insults that take the place of articulation.
Demagogue much?
It's not demagoguery or insults when it's true, is it? I see that you've offered no cogent reply to the rest of the post. You might be a fan of the guy? Aw... To each their own.
Reporter

Mclean, VA

#373 Apr 23, 2014
BUNKERVILLE, Nev.-- Militia groups are still surrounding the Bundy ranch days after the BLM ended its roundup of cattle. There is concern among some of them that they have been infiltrated by undercover federal agents.

One man, among the self-described militia, says at least two federal agents went undercover to gather information and are preparing to make arrests. This latest information is causing increased tensions among those who say their goal is to protect rancher Cliven Bundy. Around 50 people remain at the ranch.

Former Bundy guard Frank Lindysthe says it is all very troubling.

"They are now calling for militia. They're not in dug in positions, they are sitting on top of ridges. They don't have night vision capability," he said.

Lindysthe left the ranch in the middle of the night after at least two men tried joining the guard. He said the men made him uncomfortable.

"The people that are up there, they have a certain look about them. These are military. My belief is federal agents," he said.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25313504/militi...

“New & Improved..”

Level 8

Since: Oct 07

Formerly From Kenya

#374 Apr 23, 2014
Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are cutting us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?

Define 'her' and you have all the answer you need...
Reporter

Mclean, VA

#375 Apr 23, 2014
Federal agent Paul Horner, a 14-year veteran of the force, spoke with National Report by phone last Tuesday and had this to say:

“Under direct orders from the FBI and the DOJ, on behalf of the BLM, we have infiltrated the crowd with armed undercover agents. The agents are collecting intel and coordinating that information with drones that are also overseeing the disturbance. In addition, we have positively identified approximately 85% of the crowd and are running background checks for previous violations, warrants, etc. License plate numbers of protesters are being collected and entered into the national database as well. These right-wing extremists pose a serious threat to the safety of the operation and we have orders to make arrests and confiscate firearms.

“At this point we have this whole place wired and have identified all key players. DUI checkpoints have been setup along the road leading away from the ranch and we are randomly stopping cars to check for gun permits, warrants, registered firearms, etc. We are working closely with an informant deep within the Oath Keepers to identify chatter related to armed resistance. We have made a tactical call to not arrest protesters at the scene, rather to wait until they are back at their homes where we can take them into custody without a disturbance. I’m not able to release any specifics at this time, but to my knowledge we have apprehended approx 8 individuals

See more at: http://nationalreport.net/federal-agents-infi...
Reporter

Mclean, VA

#376 Apr 23, 2014
National Report is a news and political satire web publication, which may or may not use real names, often in semi-real or mostly fictitious ways. All news articles contained within National Report are fiction, and presumably fake news. Any resemblance to the truth is purely coincidental . The views expressed by writers on this site are theirs alone and are not reflective of the fine journalistic and editorial integrity of National Report. Advice given is NOT to be construed as professional. If you are in need of professional help (and you may be if you are 1941

“\\\ Always Thinking ///”

Level 8

Since: Nov 12

Greensburg, IN

#377 Apr 24, 2014
Reporter it's probably more truth than fiction.

“\\\ Always Thinking ///”

Level 8

Since: Nov 12

Greensburg, IN

#378 Apr 24, 2014
Reporter wrote:
Partner, that's a mighty fine view'n spectacle, it is!
Thank you for putt'n 'me' on-to-it!

“So it's not you, It's them?”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#379 Apr 24, 2014
In a recent New York Times interview, Cliven Bundy spoke his mind and confirmed his inner racist. I can't say that I'm surprised. Some folks just need to pretend that they're superior to others. Cliven Bundy, here to save us from that Federal Government that won't allow slavery. A quote from that Interview appears below and I've attached the site:

“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas,“and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do."

“And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked.“They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/us/politics...

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