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“Hippie Single DAD, vet, Honest”

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#44
Nov 1, 2013
 

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greymouser wrote:
<quoted text>
"But your suggesting they wait until they are boarded until they do something is wrong in all ways."
And here's where there's disagreement.
There are times where you let the crime happen and then catch them later when the adrenaline isn't flowing so high and cornering the animal where fight becomes the only solution for them.
The suggestion to arming commercial vessels is basically saying the same thing as arming bank tellers to prevent bank robberies.
I didn't suggest it,it is a simple fact. Yes of course you want to arm yourself BEFORE you are attacked. What wait until it's over & go to Somali & arrest them lol lol or find them in 100's of mls. of open ocean? or coast line?
Yes Banks DO ARM themselves, as many ,many others that handle valuable goods,convenience stores have off duty cops working 24/7 .
Should I wait & ask a home invader what their intentions are BEFORE I load my guns? It is no diff. only on a MUCH BIGGER scale & with much worse people
Also no matter the crime,letting it happen then dealing with it later ,historically only leads to more & more crimes being committed. Is similar to the arguments on stand your ground laws & concealed carry permits. Rick

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Nehwon

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#45
Nov 1, 2013
 

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wichita-rick wrote:
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Yes I assumed that is part of what your thinking is. Understand almost none of those vessels are doing this with their crew.
A swabee,a cook or even captain are not the people for this.
But what I don't think your seeing is just how many real private security co's operate that are ready to do it for them.
From the top of the line black ops type guys that we couldn't find REAL NO'S on if we tried,to every type out there.
Also compared with so many of the worlds probs. this is small potatoes,just in the U.S. look at the death rate on the U.S. Mexican border.
But those lg. co's operating private vessels in those waters are hiring security on their own nickel & there is now the largest multi nation naval presence there than EVER before. Rick
http://www.neptunemaritimesecurity.com/the-pi...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/12/us-...
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/pirate-attacks-...
Please keep in mind that I'm trying to keep focus on the initial premise of this thread.

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/weird/T0QM7OE...

If you want to discuss mercenaries, a la Pinkerton "Detective" Agencies in another thread, I may take a bite at your hook and bait.

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Nehwon

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#47
Nov 2, 2013
 

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wichita-rick wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't suggest it,it is a simple fact. Yes of course you want to arm yourself BEFORE you are attacked. What wait until it's over & go to Somali & arrest them lol lol or find them in 100's of mls. of open ocean? or coast line?
Yes Banks DO ARM themselves, as many ,many others that handle valuable goods,convenience stores have off duty cops working 24/7 .
Should I wait & ask a home invader what their intentions are BEFORE I load my guns? It is no diff. only on a MUCH BIGGER scale & with much worse people
Also no matter the crime,letting it happen then dealing with it later ,historically only leads to more & more crimes being committed. Is similar to the arguments on stand your ground laws & concealed carry permits. Rick
Your world sounds much scarier than mine.

If I had to live in fear of everyone and everything, I'd probably say everyone should be armed also.

“Hippie Single DAD, vet, Honest”

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#48
Nov 2, 2013
 

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greymouser wrote:
<quoted text>
Please keep in mind that I'm trying to keep focus on the initial premise of this thread.
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/weird/T0QM7OE...
If you want to discuss mercenaries, a la Pinkerton "Detective" Agencies in another thread, I may take a bite at your hook and bait.
I didn't stray at all. That is in the original context of it.
It is not my bait either merely trying to provide reading material for updating,education on the topic.
It is not just private co's doing this ,or pinketons as you said,though a lot of these people are far from that & in fact highly trained former combat soldiers .
The top of line people doing that also do not like being called mercenaries.
Is a big world out there. Rick

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#49
Nov 2, 2013
 

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greymouser wrote:
<quoted text>
Your world sounds much scarier than mine.
If I had to live in fear of everyone and everything, I'd probably say everyone should be armed also.
I never said that was my world. although I d live in a city & yes crime is a reality.my own thoughts on it are separate from the article.
This is about a certain region of an ocean far away from me.
I would never say arm everyone either ,as I said before that is a topic that arises when discussing the newest battle on gun rights & gun nuts & violence in U.S.. I have read plenty of it.
I have been in that region though ,we were mostly bored, a few pirates would have livened things up a bit. Rick

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#50
Nov 2, 2013
 

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wichita-rick wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't stray at all. That is in the original context of it.
It is not my bait either merely trying to provide reading material for updating,education on the topic.
It is not just private co's doing this ,or pinketons as you said,though a lot of these people are far from that & in fact highly trained former combat soldiers .
The top of line people doing that also do not like being called mercenaries.
Is a big world out there. Rick
"The top of line people doing that also do not like being called mercenaries."

These "top of the line" "security" people you are talking about -
They are hired by private corporations?

If they get a better offer from another "security" corporation, would they take advantage of the opportunity?

Mercenaries have been a long established profession throughout history.

You may give them a more Politically Correct title, but it's only fooling the people who wish to be fooled.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

“Hippie Single DAD, vet, Honest”

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#51
Nov 2, 2013
 

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No that word works for me too. Yes I understand it dates throughout history also. But it is still about a handful of people providing armed security on a vessel,no different than brinks,not the Hessions. Rick
Camilla

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#52
Nov 2, 2013
 

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No, they are not Mercenaries
- nor are they the other ludicrous ...,.
not.

Too late to elaborate on pirates -

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#53
Nov 2, 2013
 

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wichita-rick wrote:
No that word works for me too. Yes I understand it dates throughout history also. But it is still about a handful of people providing armed security on a vessel,no different than brinks,not the Hessions. Rick
Oh.

From a British perspective, the Hessians were -not- providing professional security to guard Trenton, NJ?

And George Washington crossing the Delaware was an act quite despicable as it was the morning after Christmas?

Yay! Peace and Goodwill towards all on Dec 25. Kill you on Dec 26.

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#54
Nov 2, 2013
 

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It's interesting how these tiny framed pirates...ride out in their little wooden boats and take over a gigantic ship and no one defends themselves....Just let a 5'2 100lb darkie take the helm...

“Facts”

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#55
Nov 2, 2013
 

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greymouser wrote:
<quoted text>Your world sounds much scarier than mine.

If I had to live in fear of everyone and everything, I'd probably say everyone should be armed also.
Let me take you to some nice places in Chicago at night
How about Houston??
Juarez???

“Facts”

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#56
Nov 2, 2013
 

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wichita-rick wrote:
No that word works for me too. Yes I understand it dates throughout history also. But it is still about a handful of people providing armed security on a vessel,no different than brinks,not the Hessions. Rick
Correct

“We're all Bozos on this bus”

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#57
Nov 2, 2013
 

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Spirit67_ wrote:
It's interesting how these tiny framed pirates...ride out in their little wooden boats and take over a gigantic ship and no one defends themselves....Just let a 5'2 100lb darkie take the helm...
Tiny boats that can run at speeds 3 times the ship they are attacking. Pirates armed with 30 Cal, 50 Cal machine guns, rocket propelled grenades, hull-breaching high explosive charges and prop-fouling cables.

“Hippie Single DAD, vet, Honest”

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#58
Nov 2, 2013
 

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greymouser wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh.
From a British perspective, the Hessians were -not- providing professional security to guard Trenton, NJ?
And George Washington crossing the Delaware was an act quite despicable as it was the morning after Christmas?
Yay! Peace and Goodwill towards all on Dec 25. Kill you on Dec 26.
LOL Rules of war? Kind of like Queensberry style boxing & cage fighting. Rick

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#59
Nov 2, 2013
 

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Uh Clem wrote:
<quoted text>
Tiny boats that can run at speeds 3 times the ship they are attacking. Pirates armed with 30 Cal, 50 Cal machine guns, rocket propelled grenades, hull-breaching high explosive charges and prop-fouling cables.
I loved reading this....you are a real man who knows his guns. I got chills just reading your words...please tell me again!

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#60
Nov 5, 2013
 

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wichita-rick wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL Rules of war? Kind of like Queensberry style boxing & cage fighting. Rick
or Geneva Conventions?

“Hippie Single DAD, vet, Honest”

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#61
Nov 5, 2013
 

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greymouser wrote:
<quoted text>
or Geneva Conventions?
Yes & on topic remember:) It seems the piracy laws, or rules if there are any, pre date the conventions or the Hague conventions by 150 yrs. Under those "rules' & by nato rules we have the right to the "application of the law of prize" meaning we can seize EVERYTHING they own,possess or stole IN ANY WATER, they cannot run home after attacks because we can then follow them even to their interior to reclaim the prize. Rick
http://www.worldpolicy.org/blog/2011/02/23/co...

"Article 101 of the Convention defines an act of ship-based piracy as consisting of acts of violence or detention, or an act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew of a private ship directed against another ship on the high seas, or outside the jurisdiction of any State. Piracy also extends to the operation of a pirate ship which is a ship used by persons for the purposes of committing pirate acts. This general definition of piracy is consistent with the common expression that a pirate is hostis humani generis: an enemy of all mankind. However, by limiting the definition to acts committed for ‘private ends’ any actions taken for political motives are excluded.- See more at: http://www.crimesofwar.org/commentary/maritim...

Thus the UNCLOS makes it clear that high seas piracy is illegal and that all states have a right to seize and prosecute those responsible for pirate acts on the high seas - See more at: http://www.crimesofwar.org/commentary/maritim...

http://www.crimesofwar.org/commentary/maritim...


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#62
Nov 5, 2013
 

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wichita-rick wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes & on topic remember:) It seems the piracy laws, or rules if there are any, pre date the conventions or the Hague conventions by 150 yrs. Under those "rules' & by nato rules we have the right to the "application of the law of prize" meaning we can seize EVERYTHING they own,possess or stole IN ANY WATER, they cannot run home after attacks because we can then follow them even to their interior to reclaim the prize. Rick
http://www.worldpolicy.org/blog/2011/02/23/co...
"Article 101 of the Convention defines an act of ship-based piracy as consisting of acts of violence or detention, or an act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew of a private ship directed against another ship on the high seas, or outside the jurisdiction of any State. Piracy also extends to the operation of a pirate ship which is a ship used by persons for the purposes of committing pirate acts. This general definition of piracy is consistent with the common expression that a pirate is hostis humani generis: an enemy of all mankind. However, by limiting the definition to acts committed for ‘private ends’ any actions taken for political motives are excluded.- See more at: http://www.crimesofwar.org/commentary/maritim...
Thus the UNCLOS makes it clear that high seas piracy is illegal and that all states have a right to seize and prosecute those responsible for pirate acts on the high seas - See more at: http://www.crimesofwar.org/commentary/maritim...
http://www.crimesofwar.org/commentary/maritim...
Accepted.

So you are suggesting that commercial ship captains should be the primary counter to piracy by arming them?

“Hippie Single DAD, vet, Honest”

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#63
Nov 5, 2013
 

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greymouser wrote:
<quoted text>
Accepted.
So you are suggesting that commercial ship captains should be the primary counter to piracy by arming them?
NO! I thought we were already past that? That is the reason those private security people & in a very major way all those NATO ships are already doing this.
BUT do understand any outgoing commercial vessel has the right to guard their cargo,now it seems to be under going a transformation of rules of sea because in big print ,most nations on earth recognize what I was saying about pursuing attackers until the retrieve their goods back,by those rules ALL the countries that have been attacked can follow their attackers into whatever water or land it takes .
I do find it funny that IF someone was just over taking a vessel & setting fire to it or blowing it up ,we could call it an act of war & take the whole country lol. Not that we would we want it ,unless of course they had oil. Rick

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#64
Nov 6, 2013
 

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wichita-rick wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL Rules of war? Kind of like Queensberry style boxing & cage fighting. Rick


"British call heads. It’s tails. What do you do, settlers?...

Settlers say that during the war they will wear any color clothes that they want to, shoot from behind the rocks and trees and everywhere.



Says your team must wear red and march in a straight line."

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