Ice-Free Arctic Is "Uncharted Territory"

Ice-Free Arctic Is "Uncharted Territory"

There are 42 comments on the Common Dreams story from Sep 21, 2012, titled Ice-Free Arctic Is "Uncharted Territory". In it, Common Dreams reports that:

Summer ice this year is half what it was 30 years ago and is now affecting weather patterns.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Common Dreams.

Occupy this

San Francisco, CA

#21 Sep 23, 2012
You didnt build that wrote:
<quoted text>
Great post. It's all true.
The radical leftists are trying to destroy global capitalism and replace it with a one world, socialistic government (the United Nations). This is why Obama has been quietly signing onto "international laws" that subjugate American sovereignty over issues such as gun ownership, energy production, private property rights, etc.
They get caught lying through the yellow teeth, and repeatedly pretend that "it never happened." As if they think the "peasants" are stupid.
Even their propoganda is poorly cloaked. Television shows present their agenda as if it were factual and a given. The radical, insanity of their agenda is present even in entertainment shows.
Take their "world without people" show for example. What kind of sick liberal loon would fantasize about a world without people? The radical global leftists dream of a world without people to spoil the environment...and without religion (because they atheists)...which is why the show repeatedly depicts the destruction of religious monuments (especially Christian). They hate God, and want to undermine faith by imagining the decay of God him or her self. Sick, lunatic liberal commies!
One of the best posts I've read in months. There are still intelligent people in the world.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#22 Sep 24, 2012
Occupy this wrote:
<quoted text>
One of the best posts I've read in months. There are still intelligent people in the world.
And you show that you and the posts author aren't among them.
PHD

Houston, TX

#23 Sep 24, 2012
litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
You must include, the slimy steenking filthy vile reprobate rooting(& rotting) racist pukey proud pig & alleged or proud threatener 'brian_g stumble butt dumpster diver'.
True but all need to share the load correcting the above mentioned.
Northie

Spokane, WA

#24 Sep 24, 2012
Occupy this wrote:
<quoted text>
One of the best posts I've read in months. There are still intelligent people in the world.
Intelligent? Hardly. Definitely angry, however.

Why must so many pissed-off old men take out their frustrations with liberals by attacking the earth?
Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#25 Sep 28, 2012
http://www.climatedepot.com/a/17623/NASA-fina...

"In a September 18 video posted by NASA on its website, they admit that the Arctic cyclone, which began on August 5,“wreaked havoc on the Arctic sea ice cover" by "breaking up sea ice." "
You didnt build that

Rohnert Park, CA

#26 Sep 28, 2012
Northie wrote:
<quoted text>
Intelligent? Hardly. Definitely angry, however.
Why must so many pissed-off old men take out their frustrations with liberals by attacking the earth?
People against liberalism rightly see liberalism as a threat to freedom. Liberalism is a form of soft tyranny. A tyranny that seeks (through Obama and the Democrat party) to destroy america as we know it.

The entire global warming fraud is merely one spoke in the liberal machine to destroy America as we have known it, and with it, global capitalism.

It's only natural for people to respond to tyranical liberals with anger. They should be angry.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#27 Sep 28, 2012
Fun Facts wrote:
http://www.climatedepot.com/a/ 17623/NASA-finally-admits-it-A rctic-cyclone-in-August--broke -up-and-wreaked-havoc-on-sea-i ce--Reuters-reports-Arctic-sto rm-played-key-role-in-ice-redu ction
"In a September 18 video posted by NASA on its website, they admit that the Arctic cyclone, which began on August 5,“wreaked havoc on the Arctic sea ice cover" by "breaking up sea ice." "
And your point is that the Arctic, as it warms up, and more 'free ocean' is available will accelerate the decline in sea ice? Just one more 'tipping point' feedback that pushes the Artic sea ice into decline as the warming builds.

That was your point, right?
Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#28 Sep 29, 2012
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
And your point is that the Arctic, as it warms up, and more 'free ocean' is available will accelerate the decline in sea ice? Just one more 'tipping point' feedback that pushes the Artic sea ice into decline as the warming builds.
That was your point, right?
No. My point is there was a big storm in the arctic and it moved all the ice around and a lot of ice out of the arctic.

Storms happen, ice melt happens, it has all happened before and will all happen again.

Read the article.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#29 Sep 29, 2012
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
No. My point is there was a big storm in the arctic
Yes. The increase in 'open water' from ice melting certainly changed the climate on that one. Arctic storms may become a regular thing now.
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
and it moved all the ice around and a lot of ice out of the arctic.
A lot of ice ALWAYS moves out of the Arctic each year. This years was not particularly exceptional.
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Storms happen, ice melt happens, it has all happened before and will all happen again.
Read the article.
You happen. Sh!t happens. But I repeat myself..
litesong

Everett, WA

#30 Oct 3, 2012
Barely ABOVE 4 million km2, Arctic sea ice extent is still BELOW any recorded level in any previous year for ~6 weeks, presently at 4,166,563 km2 (October 2, 2012), fractionally gaining ~25,000 km2(a bit more than West Virginia area) of sea ice the previous day, despite the sun, unseen, from the North Pole for 10+ days, & temperatures above the 80th parallel, a bit above -13 degC, fractionally above normal. Much warmth built up in Arctic waters these past months is resisting its conversion back to sea ice, especially southern Arctic waters which have seen much more solar energy absorbed than northern Arctic clear waters.

Only along the Greenland east coast is sea ice extending greatly south. All other regions, including the Northwest Passage, Northeast Passage & Arctic waters, south of the Arctic Ice Pack, resist conversion back to Arctic sea ice.

IN ADDITION, for months, any downwellings in the Arctic waters that have been ice-free, have been conducting much captured solar energy radiating on those clear waters, to the depths of the continental shelves & Arctic Ocean.

This same Arctic Ocean warmth is & will continue to keep Arctic sea ice thinner through the coming winter & even spring. As of October 2, Arctic sea ice VOLUME is ~23% lower than any satellite recorded year AND indications of submarine-detected Arctic sea ice VOLUME.

Yes, the Arctic sea ice Volume is disappearing, day to day, & year to year, quicker than the Arctic sea ice extent, even in the time of Arctic sea ice increase.
litesong

Everett, WA

#31 Oct 4, 2012
MORE "Ice-Free Arctic Is "Uncharted Territory" INFORMATION:

A stunning performance(actually a non-performance) the last two days, showing Arctic sea ice NOT piling on great amounts of sea ice on the Arctic Ocean, surrounding seas & landforms. Two days ago, Arctic sea ice expansion was only the size of West Virginia! TODAY THE ARCTIC SEA ICE AREA EXPANSION WAS ONLY AS TINY AS CONNECTICUT!
Called a secondary feedback in AGW, solar energy absorption by historically unrecorded amounts of clear Arctic waters is putting on an incredible show in a non-performing role, well worthy of an Academy Award. With a stoic unchanging face, almost all Arctic waters refuse to ice:

Details below:
//////////
\\\\\\\\\\
litesong wrote:
Barely ABOVE 4 million km2, Arctic sea ice extent is still BELOW any recorded level in any previous year, at 4,166,563 km2 (October 2, 2012), fractionally gaining ~25,000 km2(a bit more than West Virginia area) of sea ice the previous day, despite the sun, unseen, from the North Pole for 10+ days, & temperatures above the 80th parallel, a bit above -13 degC, fractionally above normal. Much warmth built up in Arctic waters these past months is resisting its conversion back to sea ice, especially southern Arctic waters which have seen much more solar energy absorbed than northern Arctic clear waters. Only along the Greenland east coast is sea ice extending greatly south.
It is stunning how the southern Arctic waters resist the ever increasing darkness & cold atmospheric temperatures trying to convert water to sea ice(yes, only West Virginia this past day).
This same Arctic Ocean warmth is & will continue to keep Arctic sea ice thinner through the coming winter & even spring. As of October 2, Arctic sea ice VOLUME is ~23% lower than any satellite recorded year AND indications of submarine-detected Arctic sea ice VOLUME.
Yes, the Arctic sea ice Volume is disappearing, day to day, & year to year, quicker than the Arctic sea ice extent, even in the time of Arctic sea ice increase.

Also, Arctic downwellings in regions of previous sea ice, now have had as much as many months of solar energy absorbing waters, in which extra energy is conducted to depths of continental shelves or into deep Arctic Ocean waters.
//////////
litesong continues:
Arctic sea ice extent is BELOW any recorded level in any previous year, at 4,173,594 km2 (October 3, 2012), fractionally gaining ~7,000 km2(a bit more than tiny Connecticut area) of sea ice the previous day, the sun, unseen, from North Pole for ~2 weeks, & temps above the 80th parallel, at -13 degC. Temps on landforms surrounding the Arctic Ocean are dropping well below freezing, yet Arctic Ocean & seas still remain remarkably free of sea ice. Much warmth built up in Arctic waters these past months is resisting its conversion back to sea ice, especially southern Arctic waters which have seen much more solar energy absorbed than northern Arctic clear waters. Only along the Greenland east coast is sea ice extending greatly south.
It is stunning how the southern Arctic waters resist the ever increasing darkness & cold atmospheric temperatures trying to convert water to sea ice(yes, only Connecticut area, this past day).
This same Arctic Ocean warmth is & will continue to keep Arctic sea ice thinner through the coming winter & even spring. As of October 2, Arctic sea ice VOLUME is ~23% lower than any satellite recorded year AND indications of submarine-detected Arctic sea ice yearly VOLUME.
Yes, the Arctic sea ice Volume is disappearing, day to day, & year to year, quicker than the Arctic sea ice extent, even in the time of Arctic sea ice increase.
Yeah, despite the feeble denial efforts of 'steenking piddling diddling middling mudling mudslinger dirtling', a slimy steenking filthy vile reprobate rooting(& rotting) racist pukey proud pig, to discount this thread, this thread is alive.
litesong

Everett, WA

#33 Nov 8, 2012
[QUOTE who="people shovers didn't build that"] Liberalism is a form of soft tyranny.[/QUOTE]

Rich upper crust 'paper pushers' & 'people shovers', taking from the poor & giving to the rich, are the same old hard-line tyranny.
litesong

Everett, WA

#34 Nov 8, 2012
litesong wrote:
Arctic sea ice, either by satellite or submarine data, is above the 2007 and 2011 Arctic sea ice extent AND, a month later than 'normal', the sea ice average for the decades of 2000's, AND THE 1990's, at 8,182,813 km2 (November 6, 2012), the day's gain smaller than S. Carolina, with temperatures above the 80th parallel now at -19 degC. The sun has been unseen from the North Pole for 7+ weeks, temperatures on landforms surrounding the Arctic Ocean, as low as -28 & -32degC! After the Arctic cold outbreak, which has added three plus feet of snow to the results of Hurricane Sandy, Arctic cold is once more building.

Arctic Ocean warmth is & will continue to keep Arctic sea ice thinner through the coming winter & even spring. As of October 2, Arctic sea ice VOLUME is ~23% lower than any satellite recorded year AND indications of submarine-detected Arctic sea ice yearly VOLUME.
Yes, the Arctic sea ice VOLUME is disappearing, year to year, quicker than the Arctic sea ice extent.
//////////
litesong continues
Presently, Arctic sea ice extent is above 2007, AND 2011, the average minimum Arctic sea ice extent for the 2000's, the 1990's, & now the 1980's, at 8,227,344 km2 (November 7, 2012), the day's gain, somewhat more than smallish Maryland-sized. Indeed, Arctic Ice Pack area, tho colder than normal for 3 weeks, beginning a month ago, is lower than the years, 2007, 2008 & 2011. Present temperatures on landforms surrounding the Arctic Ocean, have numerous areas into minus teen digits. Many northern Canadian islands & Alaska have a dropping mix of temperatures beyond the minus teens, with numerous lows between -25 AND -33degC! Siberian temperatures are in the lower minus teens.

The vast open Arctic waters north of Siberia have been covered by Arctic Ice Pack. The huge sea ice floes that strongly developed in the vast clear waters north of Siberia(due to broad double digit minus Siberian temps spilled from North Pole's 7 weeks of darkness & vortex mixing breaking down stratified solar heated waters?), have done their job AND connected the Ice Pack to the entire Siberian coastline, truly a remarkable development!

However, Franz Joseph Land & Svalbard, in winter darkness 24/7, are still clear of the Ice Pack & so is the northern coast of Alaska!!!!!!!

A detail noted 24 days ago is a raggy taggy developing edge along a part of the semi-circle, possibly NOT coincidental with the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS (plus?) OF SQUARE KILOMETERS, of waters north of Alaska & Siberia that are VASTLY CLEAR. Might the raggy taggy edge indicate huge turbulence & currents in this largest(ever?) ice free, & resulting southerly-directed heat stratified Arctic waters? I wonder if there might develop more raggy taggy edging, enough to form a swirl pattern?
Twenty three days ago, noted near the raggy taggy ice pack, developed 3 tiny pixel ice floes(arced?), separated from the Arctic ice pack toward southerly directions. Twenty two days ago, the number of ice floes increased to 8 & indeed they formed an ARC. Pretty sure they represent a large scale vortex in open Arctic water!
Further data, show that the vortex is true!

Downwelling solar heats, in unusual clear Arctic Ocean & seas, normally sea ice covered in decades past, which have strongly transported extra solar energy to continental shelf, sea & Ocean depths for 4 months, is over. The sun is unseen anywhere above the 74th parallel, now shrouding the Arctic with darkness for a good portion of the year! The northern parts of the Northwest Passage are in darkness 24/7. Only Alaskan, far north European, & far western Russian southern Arctic seas get a skimming from the sun for only a bit of the day, which is visually only a hand full of solar diameters off the horizon, at most!
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#35 Nov 9, 2012
The arctic still hasn't recovered from the deep minimum despite months of winters chill. It is also affecting the area and time that snow is on the ground which will add a second positive feedback.

Anyone still denying AGW or climate change has to be mentally defective.
LessFactMoreHype

Pinoso, Spain

#36 Nov 9, 2012
It is clear that the current 'cooling' is more due to warming of the arctica and has no relevance to global temperatures..
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/global-warmin...
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#37 Nov 9, 2012
LessFactMoreHype wrote:
It is clear that the current 'cooling' is more due to warming of the arctica and has no relevance to global temperatures..
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/global-warmin...
For those of you unfamiliar with Dirtlings misquotes, misreadings, red herrings, etc. the quotation around 'cooling' was due to the fact that it was a 'false trend' caused by the CRU having poor coverage of the polar zones and therefore not adding the heat driven to the poles by ENSO into account.

But of course, Dirling is more about making confusion than discussing facts.
LessFactMoreHype

Pinoso, Spain

#38 Nov 10, 2012
"Laugh all you want, the science isn't going to change."
http://www.topix.com/forum/tech/TTOTNTM27LVA9...

"While the science doesn't change rapidly it does change."
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/2012-presiden...
PHD

Cibolo, TX

#39 Nov 10, 2012
LessFactMoreHype wrote:
"Laugh all you want, the science isn't going to change."
http://www.topix.com/forum/tech/TTOTNTM27LVA9...
"While the science doesn't change rapidly it does change."
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/2012-presiden...
Einstein’s Science was changed.

Since: Aug 08

Everett, WA

#40 Nov 24, 2012
litesong wrote:
Arctic sea ice extent is 9,549,531 km2 (November 22, 2012), the day's gain 10,000 km2 less than the area of S. Carolina, with average temperatures above the 80th parallel to -23 degC. The sun has been unseen from the North Pole for two+ months!

Arctic Ocean warmth is & will continue to keep Arctic sea ice thinner through the coming winter & even spring. As of November, Arctic sea ice VOLUME is ~21% lower than any other year Arctic sea ice yearly VOLUME. Average Arctic sea ice VOLUME during November for the period 1980-89, was ~18 thousand km3. Present November 2012 sea ice VOLUME is 6200 km3. The Arctic sea ice loss has been an uncontrolled plummet, desired by unscientific AGW deniers, who mostly have no or little mathematical or science background.
//////////
litesong continues
Presently, Arctic sea ice extent is 300,000 km2 less than 2nd place 2011, at 9,630,781 km2 (November 23, 2012), the day's gain, again only the area of S. Carolina, despite present temperatures on landforms surrounding the Arctic Ocean, in Siberia & Arctic Canadian islands, to the deep minus twenties & even to -32degC.

Finally, the Arctic Ice Pack has attached solidly to the north coast of Alaska & now on the west coast. Baffin Bay is sea icing. Due to solar heats absorbed into the shallow waters of Hudson Bay, despite many sporadic temperatures to as low as -24 degC, the Bay still has NOT ICED.

The vast open Arctic waters north of Siberia have been covered by Arctic Ice Pack. The huge sea ice floes that strongly developed in the vast clear waters north of Siberia(due to broad double digit minus Siberian temps spilled from North Pole's 7+ weeks of darkness & vortex mixing breaking down stratified solar heated waters?), have done their job AND connected the Ice Pack to the entire Siberian coastline, truly a remarkable past development!

Chief Joseph Land is being encircled by Arctic Ice Pack, due to a continuing vortex that is moving cold Arctic sea water southward to the islands. However, Svalbard, in winter darkness 24/7, is still clear of the Ice Pack!!!!!!!!!!

A detail noted over a month ago, is a raggy taggy developing edge along a part of the semi-circle Ice Pack, possibly NOT coincidental with the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS (plus?) OF SQUARE KILOMETERS, of waters north of Alaska & Siberia that are VASTLY CLEAR. Might the raggy taggy edge indicate huge turbulence & currents in this largest(ever?) ice free, & resulting southerly-directed heat stratified Arctic waters? I wonder if there might develop more raggy taggy edging, enough to form a swirl pattern?
A month+ ago, noted near the raggy taggy Ice Pack, developed 3 tiny pixel ice floes(arced?), separated from the Arctic ice pack toward southerly directions. A month ago, the number of ice floes increased to 8 & indeed they formed an ARC. Pretty sure they represent a large scale vortex in open Arctic water!
Further data, showed that the vortex was true!

Downwelling solar heats, in unusual clear Arctic Ocean & seas, normally sea ice covered in decades past, which have strongly transported extra solar energy to continental shelf, sea & Ocean depths for 4 months, is over. The sun has been unseen from the North Pole for 8 weeks & presently anywhere above the 71st parallel, now shrouding the Arctic with darkness for a good portion of the year! The Northwest Passage is in darkness 24/7. Only far north European, & far western Russian southern Arctic waters get a skimming from the sun for only a bit of the day, which is visually very near the horizon, at its highest! The sun is only 3 arcdeg above its farthest yearly position to the south, due to the tilt of the Earth & present orbital position, with average temperatures above the 80th parallel to -23 degC. The sun has been unseen from the North Pole for two+ months!
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#41 Nov 24, 2012
You didnt build that wrote:
<quoted text>
Liberalism is a form of soft tyranny. A tyranny that seeks (through Obama and the Democrat party) to destroy america as we know it.
Factually, tyranny generally develops from the right, with well meaning 'autocrats' from either political or moneyed families trying to gather more and more money or power to themselves so that they can 'fix things to their liking'. The result is the rest of the public, drained of resources, money and power to supply the greed rebelling and putting in place a more liberal and 'individuality' friendly government of the people.

Just as, despite the rhetoric, Conservative/Republican governments increase the debt (to feed their greed while not paying their share) while more liberal/Democratic government drive to balance the budget while reducing waste.

But do go on. I know you don't care about the facts (just look at the history) so much as your own 'sacred cow' mythologies.

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