First water conservation summit draws crowd, ideas

The county held its first water conservation summit Wednesday as Marin faces critical decisions about its water future.

[BGHOZ]

Start collecting your own water....

[spicey]

Here we are again just like in the 70's---not enough water, must ration, no dishwasher use, share the bath water with your plants, don't flush and so many more "creative" ways to cut back on water use. The difference between then and now??? Our population and amount of homes has increased because of the big push for more development in Marin. So you "newbies" who have not been through this before get ready to tighten your belt or your faucet, as it were.

[Jeesh]

Its all a charade to force this desal plant on us.
You cant stop people who will either make money or get to give away good jobs to friends or associates.
Its the oldest bureaucratic game going, all at our financial peril.

[doc99]

I find it very disturbing that this was held during working hours preventing many people from attending.

[BGHOZ]

spicey wrote:

Here we are again just like in the 70's---not enough water, must ration, no dishwasher use, share the bath water with your plants, don't flush and so many more "creative" ways to cut back on water use. The difference between then and now??? Our population and amount of homes has increased because of the big push for more development in Marin. So you "newbies" who have not been through this before get ready to tighten your belt or your faucet, as it were.

Spicy, try it,save your 'grey water', see how much you save on your bill...give it a try,couldn't hurt.Stop complaining on the population growth, all the more reason why you should...(by the way I'm not a 'newbie'born and raised here..by the way where you from?

[Marin Native]

BGHOZ wrote:

<quoted text>Spicy, try it,save your 'grey water', see how much you save on your bill...give it a try,couldn't hurt.Stop complaining on the population growth, all the more reason why you should...(by the way I'm not a 'newbie'born and raised here..by the way where you from?

BGHOZ - Please tell us what type collectin system and what size storage container you use. Please report your sucess here. You will be doing a lot of good by educating us. Thanks.

[Forward Thinker]

I attended the Water Conservation Summit and was energized by the enthusiasm of this new/old Green movement. Replacing lawns with drought resistance grasses/native plants & creating a catchment to capture gutter rainwater spill is big business, another cottage industry I hope will thrive. Other cities (Santa Fe, Las Vegas, San Antonio, even LA!) have initiated far better water usage reduction programs than in Marin. Be ready: legislation is coming. Majority of your water bill is transportation cost.

[Jim]

A desal plant extracting SF Bay water next to the outflow from the sewer company is to fresh water like Nuclear power is to renewable energy.

There is a tremendous disconnect.

[BGHOZ]

Marin Native wrote:

<quoted text>
BGHOZ - Please tell us what type collectin system and what size storage container you use. Please report your sucess here. You will be doing a lot of good by educating us. Thanks.

How bout large
garbage containers for starters,metal containers rust and if you are watering pets or plants metal deposits probably aren't too good for them.

[Marin Native]

BGHOZ wrote:

<quoted text>How bout large
garbage containers for starters,metal containers rust and if you are watering pets or plants metal deposits probably aren't too good for them.

What method are you using to trap and collect the water? Are you storing the water in plastic garbage cans. How do you use this water to flush the toilet? How does it get from point a to b?

[BGHOZ]

Marin Native wrote:

<quoted text>
What method are you using to trap and collect the water? Are you storing the water in plastic garbage cans. How do you use this water to flush the toilet? How does it get from point a to b?

Elbow grease an a bucket, how more green can you get than that....?

[Marin Native]

BGHOZ wrote:

<quoted text>Elbow grease an a bucket, how more green can you get than that....?

This does not sound very efficient. How much water are you saving per month with your catch and save method in a plastic carbage can?

[BGHOZ]

Marin Native wrote:

<quoted text>
This does not sound very efficient. How much water are you saving per month with your catch and save method in a plastic carbage can?

I know you're trying to nail me down on this one...I will explain again...this conversation all stems from a post I made earlier...about when we needed to conserve water during a drought back in the 70's.I do not presently use this system.I was simply making a suggestion on what we did in the past...as a matter
of fact I plan on going on line to do some research now that you've promted me.One of the things I remember that we DID do is recycle 'grey water'(ie.the rinse cycle on the washing machine...)which could be used for instance in flushing toilets,
and in some cases watering the yard.I believe we now have envio friendly detergents that if used in this manner won't harm plants.I work at a place currently that has a coolant system that pumps gallons of water out with nowhere to go.On that location there is also a large community garden that needs watering on a daily basis...this water can be recycled and especially because it is not contaminated back to the garden...Back to what I was saying, I realize we have a rainy season that depending on that particular
year yeild more or less,but the bottom line is that water if collected can be used, not neccesarily year round but to a point.Just some ideas, I most certainly am not an expert,only hope to inspire some to more economic ways of thinking.Imagine what Marin could have done with all that water back in Jan.2005!

[Pulipaca]

BGHOZ, your post caught my eye so I thought I should chime in on building cooling systems.
First I must say that I am a firm believer in conservation and recycling water, and also the projects to better utilize the existing water sources that we are blessed with in the MMWD without desalinating toxic, filthy, polluted bay water and blending into our system to enhance more rampant development in the MMWD.
I worked at a large office building in south central Marin as a facilities engineer for four years. During that time I learned a whole lot about all the systems it takes to run a large building.
Our heating and cooling system was what is called a closed loop system. How it works is there are 10 inch pipes that recirculate water throughout the building to the many heat pumps in each office suite. That water goes to either a boiler or cooling tower depending on the calls for heat or cooling. It depends on the time of year but both the boiler and cooling tower run 24/7 365 days a year. They do not dump any water out of a closed loop system except for a small amount from the cooling tower. THAT WATER IS TOXIC ! We had a specialist from ComAir come in every few months and run tests on the water and add chemicals to kill the bacteria. Remember legionairs disease ?
I most seriously doubt your claim that your building's cooling system is dumping much water at all, and if it is, it is probably poison and going to the bay. And to think some kooks think we should drink that swill !

[Marin Native]

BGHOZ wrote:

<quoted text>I know you're trying to nail me down on this one...I will explain again...this conversation all stems from a post I made earlier...about when we needed to conserve water during a drought back in the 70's.I do not presently use this system.I was simply making a suggestion on what we did in the past

I followed the thread of comments. I also oppose desal. I hope that we can meet all our water needs through sensible conservation, limit of new growth, expanding our current supply by better utilizing the storage already in our resevoir, and exploring other water source such as new resevoirs.

I am not an expert though and there are many questions. I oppose desal on many fronts. I believe the MMWD board needs to explore ALL options in order to avoid the catastrophic results in the event of a three-year drought. I do not blame them at all for exploring desal as an option. I just hope that there are better solutions.

Sure I was trying to trap you. I agree with your opposition of desal, but it was clear to me that your idea, as you presented it, did not come close to being the answer. I do not believe there is a simple answer. I don't think we should just roll over and accept desal without finding the answers to all our questions.

[Marin Native]

BGHOZ wrote:

<quoted text>...this conversation all stems from a post I made earlier...about when we needed to conserve water during a drought back in the 70's.I do not presently use this system.I was simply making a suggestion on what we did in the past...as a matter of fact I plan on going on line to do some research now that you've promted me.One of the things I remember that we DID do is recycle 'grey water'(ie.the rinse cycle on the washing machine...)which could be used for instance in flushing toilets

Let's not forget some of the facts surrounding the drought of 76-77. Sure, we conserved like crazy flushing only if brown and many other severe and unpleasant quick conservation methods. We also purchase water from the south and ran a pipleline across the Richmond-San Rafael bridge. Ultimately we were saved by a ridiculously wet winter after two years of drought.

We did not "conserve" our way out of the shortage. Withoug the pipe on the bridge followed by a huge rainy season, we would be have been in big trouble.

[Commander Bunny]

BGHOZ wrote:

Start collecting your own water....

Spot on!
After reading all the other comments it really makes Me wonder if Anybody knows what the word "cistern" means, It's not like it's something new, Civilizations have been using this kind of dry-season water storage for millenium.

[BGHOZ]

Pulipaca wrote:

BGHOZ, your post caught my eye so I thought I should chime in on building cooling systems.
First I must say that I am a firm believer in conservation and recycling water, and also the projects to better utilize the existing water sources that we are blessed with in the MMWD without desalinating toxic, filthy, polluted bay water and blending into our system to enhance more rampant development in the MMWD.
I worked at a large office building in south central Marin as a facilities engineer for four years. During that time I learned a whole lot about all the systems it takes to run a large building.
Our heating and cooling system was what is called a closed loop system. How it works is there are 10 inch pipes that recirculate water throughout the building to the many heat pumps in each office suite. That water goes to either a boiler or cooling tower depending on the calls for heat or cooling. It depends on the time of year but both the boiler and cooling tower run 24/7 365 days a year. They do not dump any water out of a closed loop system except for a small amount from the cooling tower. THAT WATER IS TOXIC ! We had a specialist from ComAir come in every few months and run tests on the water and add chemicals to kill the bacteria. Remember legionairs disease ?
I most seriously doubt your claim that your building's cooling system is dumping much water at all, and if it is, it is probably poison and going to the bay. And to think some kooks think we should drink that swill !

I'm not an engineer, all I know is that there is alot of water that is being dumped to nowhere,I am convinced that the developers
in the scheme of things kinda took a short cut, the water is dumped out of the building on to pavement.Period.I also do not think that the water is contaminated and can be reused (in whatever capacity).If Marin is all about conservation then that might be something to look into.Thank you for your commentary. Much Appreciated.

[Pulipaca]

BGHOZ wrote:

<quoted text>I'm not an engineer, all I know is that there is alot of water that is being dumped to nowhere,I am convinced that the developers
in the scheme of things kinda took a short cut, the water is dumped out of the building on to pavement.Period.I also do not think that the water is contaminated and can be reused (in whatever capacity).If Marin is all about conservation then that might be something to look into.Thank you for your commentary. Much Appreciated.

I believe you. That water is probably draining from condensate of air conditioning units,which is water pulled out of the air and not derived from domestic water supplies. It is not toxic like the water from a cooling tower is. In Marin county, water from roof drains and AC units is allowed to be dumped into the storm drains, but in San Francisco all water must be run into the sanitary sewer system and then through the George W. Bush sewer treatment plant out on the great highway.
It is amazing how much water that can be pulled out of the air in some regions. Have you ever run a dehumidifier ? You can pull out 5 gallons of water per day out of a room, but it is an expensive way to capture water. Maybe that could be the wave of the future, instead of a bay water desalting plant that would put out inferior water, build giant dehumidifiers in each city. I wonder if anyone has ever thought of that ?

[BGHOZ]

Pulipaca wrote:

<quoted text>I believe you. That water is probably draining from condensate of air conditioning units,which is water pulled out of the air and not derived from domestic water supplies. It is not toxic like the water from a cooling tower is. In Marin county, water from roof drains and AC units is allowed to be dumped into the storm drains, but in San Francisco all water must be run into the sanitary sewer system and then through the George W. Bush sewer treatment plant out on the great highway.
It is amazing how much water that can be pulled out of the air in some regions. Have you ever run a dehumidifier ? You can pull out 5 gallons of water per day out of a room, but it is an expensive way to capture water. Maybe that could be the wave of the future, instead of a bay water desalting plant that would put out inferior water, build giant dehumidifiers in each city. I wonder if anyone has ever thought of that ?

Me too, in Marin Co.Green Zone.Go figure.