At $275 a day, parents could outdo Ki...

At $275 a day, parents could outdo KidsPeace

There are 201 comments on the The Morning Call story from Nov 11, 2007, titled At $275 a day, parents could outdo KidsPeace. In it, The Morning Call reports that:

In 1995 -- when a piece of garbage named Dean Sine beat a manslaughter rap in Lehigh County Court -- a contingent of KidsPeace supporters celebrated in the courtroom.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Morning Call.

Annoyed

Allentown, PA

#151 Nov 13, 2007
Rick wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are the parent, grandparent or sibling of the child it NEVER becomes old news, even after 10 or 15 years. All the events of those tragic days seem like it was only yesterday.
My comment wasn't in regards to it being "old news" once again I will explain... Paul brings u pthe same two stories for over ten years as if we do not already know about it. As if it has been forgotten, no one has forgotten and no one is belittling the two who died. But a org doesn't need to be continuoulsy crucified for something that an individual did.
KP4Life

Allentown, PA

#152 Nov 13, 2007
Rick,although i feel sorry anytime there is a loss of life,especially when it's a child,i am tired of hearing Mr.Carpenter and you say 2 kids were killed at KP.The fact is those 2 died yes but staff were cleared of all charges.There were other factors involved in their deaths.This is why all employees were not charged.Rick it's obvious you have tons of anger and you choose to use that anger to lash out at KP,but aren't you really angry at yourself because you were not a very good parent,and couldn't control your son at home?Therefore he needed to be placed in a residential facility.If you were a real man and did your job at home then you would never have had KP in your life to blame.So may i encourage you instead of spending time on here bashing KP,go see a counselor and get rid of the anger you have inside from being an incompetant parent.God bless you!
angry

Sparta, NJ

#153 Nov 13, 2007
Thomas wrote:
Non-Profit=Must blow all money on salaries and not bank or invest it.
So then tell me where the 40 dollars per kid to buy them a birthday gift and cake come from. Tell me where the 200 dollar clothing P.O. each season comes from? Tell me where the 60 dollar sneaker allowance comes from? Tell me where the 50 dollars to take a movie trip out for the four best behaved children that night comes from? Or what about the 50 dollar bowling trip, rollerskating trip, or what about all the trips to the philadelphia zoo and dorney park????? Tell me where the 85 dollars per child for us to buy christmas gifts comes from? If money goes to salaries, then maybe I should make more than 25,000 a year to be assaulted almost daily weekly. If you don't work here, you have no idea the good we do, and I'm sorry a few rotten apples have spoiled every person's perception of KidsPeace.
von lees

Allentown, PA

#154 Nov 13, 2007
proud parent wrote:
I have read a great deal of criticism about KidsPeaace. My heart goes out to the parents who have lost their children to accidental deaths. However, where was the parenting before these kids got to KidsPeace. Some parents need to look in the mirror and start saying I need to be a better parent so that my kids do not need to go to a residential facility to get help. It starts in the home people. Stop blaming others for your own faults. Your kids suffer way before they go to KidsPeace. Counselors can only give the clients advice. It is wsa htey do with it in the long run. Sometimes the damage is so severe before the clients arrive there that who is to say that they will get over the trauma that their parents have inflicted on them. My hat goes off to those who work with the kids in crisis. Instead of complaining about what goes on, be apart of the solution and be a better parent. Maybe there should be a ParentsPeace for the parents who do not know how to raise their kids approprately in today's society.
Couldn't of said it better; and while I'm at it, why didn't the MC print the name of the Bucks cty. "rehab facility" where last wk 2 Patients? escaped, holed up in a house and had guns causing a standoff?
Truth

United States

#155 Nov 13, 2007
Rick wrote:
<quoted text>
ONCE AGAIN
What part of Paul's column is an untruth?
If you really want to know, the article is carefully crafted to be legally correct, but very misleading. The TRUTH is...

Mark Draheim's injuries did not happen at KidsPeace. The autopsy found the injuries, but but determined they were old, and occured prior to him being admitted. Nor was he "raped". He was in a sex offender program, because he was a predator.(it is sad to even have to write such things about a dead boy, but Carpenter already smeared whatever dignity this boy had left) Draheim actually was quite sick, and was under lose observation for tying to sexually assault other kids in the placement. They were protecting the other kids from HIM. He was restrained when he tried to stab a sharp pencil into the neck of a staff member who was talking to him about his latest "sexual incident". All incidents were found to be reported to the POPPER authorites. No not the police, because there are defined rules on when the police get called and weh they do not (these are not KidsPeace's rules). The state was informed of every incident, as was the referring county office, parents, licencing offices ect. The police were not called, because most of the time the sexual contact was consetual, and there for not a crime by THEIR standards.

All of the things Captenter references from Sine happened AFTER he was fired by KidsPeace. Linking them like Capenter has done is just misleading.

The celebration in the courtroom was insensitive in hindsight. However, when you and/or your loved one is facing what the trial was threatening, it was a human response. It is sad that the family had to see and hear that, but they were NOT celebrating the death of the child. This is a common phenomenon with courtroom trials involving children. It's regretable, but not malicious.(Sine is in jail now- where he belongs)

$275 a day is a lot of money. It's expensive care. There is no getting around that. It costs a lot of money to provide those services. It's why that is about what it costs at Devereux, Children's Village, St. Gabriel's, Bradley Center ect...

Let's not paint KidsPeace as unique in that respect. It's a high risk field, with expensive overhead, and dangerous clients. That costs money! Anyone who thinks they can do it cheaper is welcome to open their own for profit facility like Psych Solutions. Want to be horified.. lok at that organization. Oh wait, their private, so you really can't. Oh well, back to stabbing at Kidspeace. It's just easier, and makes for a good column.
Rick

United States

#156 Nov 13, 2007
KP4Life wrote:
Rick,although i feel sorry anytime there is a loss of life,especially when it's a child,i am tired of hearing Mr.Carpenter and you say 2 kids were killed at KP.The fact is those 2 died yes but staff were cleared of all charges.There were other factors involved in their deaths.This is why all employees were not charged.Rick it's obvious you have tons of anger and you choose to use that anger to lash out at KP,but aren't you really angry at yourself because you were not a very good parent,and couldn't control your son at home?Therefore he needed to be placed in a residential facility.If you were a real man and did your job at home then you would never have had KP in your life to blame.So may i encourage you instead of spending time on here bashing KP,go see a counselor and get rid of the anger you have inside from being an incompetant parent.God bless you!
For your information, neither my wife nor I had a problem controlling our son at home. He was placed at KP, against our will, for an educational evaluation because our local school district found they could get him placed there at DYFS's expense rather than having to foot the bill themselves at a special needs school. As for being a real man and doing my job at home, in addition to having a full time job I was a Boy Scout leader in a Troop that included Jason and his two older brothers, one of whom has autism. Jason was one of the scouts in the troop that went with me to help out in South Carolina after Hurricane Hugo devastated a small fishing town there.
Rick

United States

#157 Nov 13, 2007
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
If you really want to know, the article is carefully crafted to be legally correct, but very misleading. The TRUTH is...
Mark Draheim's injuries did not happen at KidsPeace. The autopsy found the injuries, but but determined they were old, and occured prior to him being admitted. Nor was he "raped". He was in a sex offender program, because he was a predator.(it is sad to even have to write such things about a dead boy, but Carpenter already smeared whatever dignity this boy had left) Draheim actually was quite sick, and was under lose observation for tying to sexually assault other kids in the placement. They were protecting the other kids from HIM. He was restrained when he tried to stab a sharp pencil into the neck of a staff member who was talking to him about his latest "sexual incident". All incidents were found to be reported to the POPPER authorites. No not the police, because there are defined rules on when the police get called and weh they do not (these are not KidsPeace's rules). The state was informed of every incident, as was the referring county office, parents, licencing offices ect. The police were not called, because most of the time the sexual contact was consetual, and there for not a crime by THEIR standards.
All of the things Captenter references from Sine happened AFTER he was fired by KidsPeace. Linking them like Capenter has done is just misleading.
The celebration in the courtroom was insensitive in hindsight. However, when you and/or your loved one is facing what the trial was threatening, it was a human response. It is sad that the family had to see and hear that, but they were NOT celebrating the death of the child. This is a common phenomenon with courtroom trials involving children. It's regretable, but not malicious.(Sine is in jail now- where he belongs)
$275 a day is a lot of money. It's expensive care. There is no getting around that. It costs a lot of money to provide those services. It's why that is about what it costs at Devereux, Children's Village, St. Gabriel's, Bradley Center ect...
Let's not paint KidsPeace as unique in that respect. It's a high risk field, with expensive overhead, and dangerous clients. That costs money! Anyone who thinks they can do it cheaper is welcome to open their own for profit facility like Psych Solutions. Want to be horified.. lok at that organization. Oh wait, their private, so you really can't. Oh well, back to stabbing at Kidspeace. It's just easier, and makes for a good column.
So here we have another Kidspeace employee who doesn't think that confidiality laws apply to him/her.
These injuries that occurred before he arrived at KP must have been VERY old. He had been there for over three years.
So you are saying he was a sexual predator at age 11?
You said "The police were not called, because most of the time the sexual contact was consetual, and there for not a crime by THEIR standards."
I can only presume that you meant "consentual". The age of consent is 14 in Pennsylvania?
Rick

United States

#158 Nov 13, 2007
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
If you really want to know, the article is carefully crafted to be legally correct, but very misleading. The TRUTH is...
Mark Draheim's injuries did not happen at KidsPeace. The autopsy found the injuries, but but determined they were old, and occured prior to him being admitted. Nor was he "raped". He was in a sex offender program, because he was a predator.(it is sad to even have to write such things about a dead boy, but Carpenter already smeared whatever dignity this boy had left) Draheim actually was quite sick, and was under lose observation for tying to sexually assault other kids in the placement. They were protecting the other kids from HIM. He was restrained when he tried to stab a sharp pencil into the neck of a staff member who was talking to him about his latest "sexual incident". All incidents were found to be reported to the POPPER authorites. No not the police, because there are defined rules on when the police get called and weh they do not (these are not KidsPeace's rules). The state was informed of every incident, as was the referring county office, parents, licencing offices ect. The police were not called, because most of the time the sexual contact was consetual, and there for not a crime by THEIR standards.
All of the things Captenter references from Sine happened AFTER he was fired by KidsPeace. Linking them like Capenter has done is just misleading.
The celebration in the courtroom was insensitive in hindsight. However, when you and/or your loved one is facing what the trial was threatening, it was a human response. It is sad that the family had to see and hear that, but they were NOT celebrating the death of the child. This is a common phenomenon with courtroom trials involving children. It's regretable, but not malicious.(Sine is in jail now- where he belongs)
$275 a day is a lot of money. It's expensive care. There is no getting around that. It costs a lot of money to provide those services. It's why that is about what it costs at Devereux, Children's Village, St. Gabriel's, Bradley Center ect...
Let's not paint KidsPeace as unique in that respect. It's a high risk field, with expensive overhead, and dangerous clients. That costs money! Anyone who thinks they can do it cheaper is welcome to open their own for profit facility like Psych Solutions. Want to be horified.. lok at that organization. Oh wait, their private, so you really can't. Oh well, back to stabbing at Kidspeace. It's just easier, and makes for a good column.
(Sorry, I had to split this up because of the size.)
He was restrained when he tried to stab a staff member?
At least that's the staffer's side of the story.
We can't hear Mark's side can we?
As I remember the story when it first came out, the staffer walked into Mark's room to discuss an event that had happened earlier in the day. The staffer perceived the pencils sitting on a table as potential weapons and grabbed two of them. Mark grabbed the third one. That is when he was restrained, and two more staffers were called in. In the article it said that at that point the pencil was on the floor. At that point the danger, real or imagined, was over. At that point the restraint should have ended, but continued. One of the other staffers took over the restraint while the first one went to change his sweaty shirt. That showed great concern for the youth.
Even before you ask what other choices the staffer had, he could have asked Mark to put the pencils away where they would be no threat or if he was that scared of a 14-year-old he could have said, "OK I'll come back when you aren't so upset".
Rick

United States

#159 Nov 13, 2007
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
If you really want to know, the article is carefully crafted to be legally correct, but very misleading. The TRUTH is...
Mark Draheim's injuries did not happen at KidsPeace..
The compression asphyxia that caused his death certainly did happen at Kidspeace.
Rick

United States

#160 Nov 13, 2007
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
If you really want to know, the article is carefully crafted to be legally correct, but very misleading. The TRUTH is...
All of the things Captenter references from Sine happened AFTER he was fired by KidsPeace..
Sine was still employed at Kidspeace during his 1995 trial. Which means he was still employed at Kidspeace in 1994 when he assaulted the other boy, which is why he is now in jail.
BTW, if Sine was acquitted, why did KP FIRE him?
Rick

United States

#161 Nov 13, 2007
Thomas wrote:
Non-Profit=Must blow all money on salaries and not bank or invest it.
angry wrote:
<quoted text>
So then tell me where the 40 dollars per kid to buy them a birthday gift and cake come from. Tell me where the 200 dollar clothing P.O. each season comes from? Tell me where the 60 dollar sneaker allowance comes from? Tell me where the 50 dollars to take a movie trip out for the four best behaved children that night comes from? Or what about the 50 dollar bowling trip, rollerskating trip, or what about all the trips to the philadelphia zoo and dorney park????? Tell me where the 85 dollars per child for us to buy christmas gifts comes from? If money goes to salaries, then maybe I should make more than 25,000 a year to be assaulted almost daily weekly. If you don't work here, you have no idea the good we do, and I'm sorry a few rotten apples have spoiled every person's perception of KidsPeace.
You didn't mention the cost of Dorney Park or Philadelphia Zoo, but if you call that $100 and add up all the other items you listed, it comes to $585. That's two day's worth of fees per kid.
To break it down even further, the birthday and Christmas money amounts to 34 cents a day. The clothing and sneakers comes in at $2.88.
The movies and bowling is actually $12.50 per kid, and I'm sure they don't get that every day.
And it seems that a lot of groups in the valley seem to run fundraisers, clothing and toy drives for Kidspeace kids.
Rick

United States

#162 Nov 13, 2007
Rick wrote:
Thomas wrote:
Non-Profit=Must blow all money on salaries and not bank or invest it.
<quoted text>

And it seems that a lot of groups in the valley seem to run fundraisers, clothing and toy drives for Kidspeace kids.
To prove a point about the fundraisers.
Balls, awards and a centenary occasion
By Diana Morse | Of The Morning Call
October 21, 2007
KIDSPEACE GALA

Stars were aligned, as was the red carpet, as guests arrived at the KidsPeace Autumn Ball Saturday, Oct. 6. The gala, held at the Saucon Valley Country Club, marked KidsPeace's 125th year anniversary.

John ''Jack'' Cooney, president, the Cooney Group, introduced C.T. O'Donnell, KidsPeace president and CEO., who presented honoree Franklin K. Schoeneman, chairman and CEO of the Empire Education Group.
Schoeneman thanked his family and the KidsPeace board of directors, teachers, staff and students for their support. He remarked that KidsPeace is ''fortunate to have recruited [O'Donnell] and his family,'' and announced proceeds from his company's Saturday, Oct. 13, National Day of Beauty would be dedicated to KidsPeace. Evening highlights included music by Philadelphia Funk Authority, a cigar bar courtesy of The Cigar Boss, and a scotch bar, sponsored by Tallman, Hudders & Sorrentino.

SO how many of the staff go to go to this function???
wow

Schnecksville, PA

#163 Nov 14, 2007
Rick wrote:
Restraints are ALL dangerous and potentially deadly. It's like firing a gun. You can fire it 10 times, 10,000 times and never kill anyone.
But then at some point, you hit someone.
EVERY restraint has the potential to kill.
Rick, but so does getting behind the steering wheel of a car! Many things in life have potential to harm- it is just other factors that affect the outcome if it is going to be a positive or negative one!
Honestly Rick, I think you need to take a break, you are arent making much sense-saying too much with no meaning. Thanks!
wow

Schnecksville, PA

#164 Nov 14, 2007
Rick wrote:
<quoted text>
For your information, neither my wife nor I had a problem controlling our son at home. He was placed at KP, against our will, for an educational evaluation because our local school district found they could get him placed there at DYFS's expense rather than having to foot the bill themselves at a special needs school. As for being a real man and doing my job at home, in addition to having a full time job I was a Boy Scout leader in a Troop that included Jason and his two older brothers, one of whom has autism. Jason was one of the scouts in the troop that went with me to help out in South Carolina after Hurricane Hugo devastated a small fishing town there.
Rick: It is obvious that you are an angry person.
Children and youth dont just "take children away."
They are as overworked and limited resources as most social agencies these days!! I am sorry that your child couldnt be managed at home, but dont be so disrespectful (and that is putting it nicely) towards an organization that is trying to help others. Your problems didnt start with Kidspeace. Please face it----IT STARTED AT HOME!!! Thank you!
joker

Philadelphia, PA

#165 Nov 14, 2007
Rick,

I think you should spend some of your free time being an advocate for the children of your state. New Jersey is the worst state for dumping their troubled children out of state. Maybe you should get the NJ political leaders to open up some residential facilities. Numerous KP kids are from NJ due to the limited resources available. And just try to deny one of the more troubled ones, the big wigs are on the phone to every supervisor they can fine to at KP making threats to never place another NJ child there and to pull out the ones already there. Unfortunately KP has not learned to say no to anyone and continues to give in to these threats.
It's unfortunate your child had to be placed, although I doubt he was placed against your will without some serious parenting concerns.
I hope your child is better now.
Rick

United States

#166 Nov 14, 2007
joker wrote:
Rick,
I think you should spend some of your free time being an advocate for the children of your state. New Jersey is the worst state for dumping their troubled children out of state. Maybe you should get the NJ political leaders to open up some residential facilities. Numerous KP kids are from NJ due to the limited resources available. And just try to deny one of the more troubled ones, the big wigs are on the phone to every supervisor they can fine to at KP making threats to never place another NJ child there and to pull out the ones already there. Unfortunately KP has not learned to say no to anyone and continues to give in to these threats.
It's unfortunate your child had to be placed, although I doubt he was placed against your will without some serious parenting concerns.
I hope your child is better now.
What makes you think I haven't been advocating for kids in New Jersey and other states as well.
Rick

United States

#167 Nov 14, 2007
joker wrote:
Rick,
I think you should spend some of your free time being an advocate for the children of your state. New Jersey is the worst state for dumping their troubled children out of state.
And you have some stats to back that up?
Rick

United States

#168 Nov 14, 2007
wow wrote:
<quoted text>
Rick: It is obvious that you are an angry person.
Children and youth dont just "take children away."
They are as overworked and limited resources as most social agencies these days!! I am sorry that your child couldnt be managed at home, but dont be so disrespectful (and that is putting it nicely) towards an organization that is trying to help others. Your problems didnt start with Kidspeace. Please face it----IT STARTED AT HOME!!! Thank you!
I will repeat "For your information, neither my wife nor I had a problem controlling our son at home. He was placed at KP, against our will, for an educational evaluation because our local school district found they could get him placed there at DYFS's expense rather than having to foot the bill themselves at a special needs school."
Rick

United States

#169 Nov 14, 2007
joker wrote:
Rick,
I think you should spend some of your free time being an advocate for the children of your state. New Jersey is the worst state for dumping their troubled children out of state. Maybe you should get the NJ political leaders to open up some residential facilities. Numerous KP kids are from NJ due to the limited resources available. And just try to deny one of the more troubled ones, the big wigs are on the phone to every supervisor they can fine to at KP making threats to never place another NJ child there and to pull out the ones already there. Unfortunately KP has not learned to say no to anyone and continues to give in to these threats.
It's unfortunate your child had to be placed, although I doubt he was placed against your will without some serious parenting concerns.
I hope your child is better now.
I can categorically deny that. I haven’t talked to any of the “big wigs” you claim are making these phone calls. In fact I haven’t talked to any “big wigs” at all lately.
Rick

United States

#170 Nov 14, 2007
wow wrote:
<quoted text>
Rick, but so does getting behind the steering wheel of a car! Many things in life have potential to harm- it is just other factors that affect the outcome if it is going to be a positive or negative one!
Honestly Rick, I think you need to take a break, you are arent making much sense-saying too much with no meaning. Thanks!
Just driving a car doesn't put anyone in a position where their breathing and circulation are restricted and can cause asphyxiation. Restraint does.

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