Transgender student sues Baptist coll...

Transgender student sues Baptist college over reality check

There are 15 comments on the World Magazine story from Mar 2, 2013, titled Transgender student sues Baptist college over reality check. In it, World Magazine reports that:

A transgender student is suing California Baptist University for expelling him in 2011 after he claimed he was a female despite his male anatomy.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at World Magazine.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#1 Mar 2, 2013
Bigot should not be allowed to write articles, or run universities.
Jen

Savannah, GA

#2 Mar 2, 2013
I don't get it with these journalists like Lu in this article who use male pronouns to describe this young woman.They need to go back to journalism school to learn proper journalistic style and etiquette.They also need to learn some respect for other human beings and that is something they should have learned at home.

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#3 Mar 2, 2013
you know this is a baptist college which implies a religious foundation. Religious institutions should have every right to discriminate against transsexuals or even LGB individuals if the actions of individual goes against the religious foundation of the school. There was no hiding the fact that this was a religious school. They did not play it down. And even required non religious students to attend services.

While I hope for the best for this woman, I do believe the school had every right to ask her to leave their school.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#4 Mar 2, 2013
Roisia wrote:
you know this is a baptist college which implies a religious foundation. Religious institutions should have every right to discriminate against transsexuals or even LGB individuals if the actions of individual goes against the religious foundation of the school. There was no hiding the fact that this was a religious school. They did not play it down. And even required non religious students to attend services.
While I hope for the best for this woman, I do believe the school had every right to ask her to leave their school.
So you agree with discriminating against customers for any business. A university is a business, the students pay to be there.

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#5 Mar 3, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
So you agree with discriminating against customers for any business. A university is a business, the students pay to be there.
Yes I do. Any group who openly defines themselves as religious should be allowed to operate by their religious standards. If this is a Truly private CHRISTIAN college they should be allowed to operate by their religious standard.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#6 Mar 3, 2013
Roisia wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I do. Any group who openly defines themselves as religious should be allowed to operate by their religious standards. If this is a Truly private CHRISTIAN college they should be allowed to operate by their religious standard.
So you also support delusions being forced onto others.

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#7 Mar 4, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
So you also support delusions being forced onto others.
Apparently since you put those words in my mouth I must.

Ok now lets be logical here. This is not the only college in California let alone in the area. This means that a student can make the choice to go to this school or another. Therefore nothing is being forced on any one.

Do i support freedom of religion. Why yes I do. Do I support Equity in equal rights. Again Yes I do.

This means that as transsexuals If we do not want people telling us how to live our lives, We don't tell them how to live theirs. By telling a religious private college who they have to accept that's against their religion you tell them how to practice their faith. That is wrong. You may think Christianity is an archaic and harmful religion. However for some people it has given them hope and even made them better people by giving them a morality to adhere too.

How can we demand of others what we do not ourselves practice?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#8 Mar 4, 2013
Roisia wrote:
<quoted text>
Apparently since you put those words in my mouth I must.
Ok now lets be logical here. This is not the only college in California let alone in the area. This means that a student can make the choice to go to this school or another. Therefore nothing is being forced on any one.
Do i support freedom of religion. Why yes I do. Do I support Equity in equal rights. Again Yes I do.
This means that as transsexuals If we do not want people telling us how to live our lives, We don't tell them how to live theirs. By telling a religious private college who they have to accept that's against their religion you tell them how to practice their faith. That is wrong. You may think Christianity is an archaic and harmful religion. However for some people it has given them hope and even made them better people by giving them a morality to adhere too.
How can we demand of others what we do not ourselves practice?
Private schools are businesses. You support discrimination by businesses, you also support forcing people to live based on a religious ideology, simply by saying you think it's okay for the school to discriminate.

The "middle ground" is not more than sugar coated enabling.

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#9 Mar 4, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Private schools are businesses. You support discrimination by businesses, you also support forcing people to live based on a religious ideology, simply by saying you think it's okay for the school to discriminate.
The "middle ground" is not more than sugar coated enabling.
So basically if im not a left wing militant radical I am a horrible person?

This is why I dont like being part of the trans community. You are doing the same thing that the right wing is doing to us and then calling them horrible for doing it. Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

I believe in treating people as I want to be treated. That is i want my beliefs respected so I respect theirs. I want my rights respected so I respect theirs. It doesn't matter if they respect mine in the end or not. Its about doing what I believe is right.

Which I guess since you define what I believe as wrong. I am a horrible person.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#10 Mar 4, 2013
Roisia wrote:
<quoted text>
So basically if im not a left wing militant radical I am a horrible person?
This is why I dont like being part of the trans community. You are doing the same thing that the right wing is doing to us and then calling them horrible for doing it. Seems a bit hypocritical to me.
I believe in treating people as I want to be treated. That is i want my beliefs respected so I respect theirs. I want my rights respected so I respect theirs. It doesn't matter if they respect mine in the end or not. Its about doing what I believe is right.
Which I guess since you define what I believe as wrong. I am a horrible person.
I am not a liberal, if that's what you are implying. However, what you believe is wrong, and belief based on no evidence is almost always wrong. What if all the pharmacies renamed themselves after cults like this school is named? Would they then be allowed to deny someone prescription medication simply because they are a religious business? What of the hospitals? Can they deny saving a person's life just because they are named after religious cults? If they put a cross on top of the White House, would the government then be allowed to discriminate based on their religious "morals?" Once any institution becomes a public one, it sacrifices the right to discriminate for the privilege of earning a profit.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#11 Mar 4, 2013
Oh, and I am not even part of your "trans community" either. Get a clue before you assume.

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#12 Mar 4, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not a liberal, if that's what you are implying. However, what you believe is wrong, and belief based on no evidence is almost always wrong. What if all the pharmacies renamed themselves after cults like this school is named? Would they then be allowed to deny someone prescription medication simply because they are a religious business? What of the hospitals? Can they deny saving a person's life just because they are named after religious cults? If they put a cross on top of the White House, would the government then be allowed to discriminate based on their religious "morals?" Once any institution becomes a public one, it sacrifices the right to discriminate for the privilege of earning a profit.
I'm sorry being the idiot that i am. Im not smart enough to understand that in an economy such as ours There will always be places to serve those who are non religious. As far as hospitals many are actually religious. Im too stupid to know this for fact but my experience as a nurse has shown me this. As for your assumption of their ability to deny life saving care that would actually go against their religions. However they are allowed to not discuss birth control and can decide not to offer electives such as gender reassignment or sterilization.

And you say I have no experience in the area? I graduated from nursing school last year. Our school contracted with many religious hospitals. I was asked to present as male in those situations. I did willingly. For the record during my graduation ceremony I was in a dress. And i was praised by the instructors as well as made it easier on the few trans students who have come after. Why because i was willing to work with the school not against them

I apologize for insulting you by thinking you were trans.

You however scold me for assuming things. However, you have on multiple occasions assumed that im ok with certain things without knowing actually without caring what my views are. You have assumed that i have no experience with this sort of thing. However I have been through this. And I will tell you one thing I've experienced. If you are looking for trouble you will always find it. If you are willing to work and play well with others you do well.

I guess its ok for you to make assumptions just not me.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#13 Mar 5, 2013
Roisia wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry being the idiot that i am. Im not smart enough to understand that in an economy such as ours There will always be places to serve those who are non religious. As far as hospitals many are actually religious. Im too stupid to know this for fact but my experience as a nurse has shown me this. As for your assumption of their ability to deny life saving care that would actually go against their religions. However they are allowed to not discuss birth control and can decide not to offer electives such as gender reassignment or sterilization.
And you say I have no experience in the area? I graduated from nursing school last year. Our school contracted with many religious hospitals. I was asked to present as male in those situations. I did willingly. For the record during my graduation ceremony I was in a dress. And i was praised by the instructors as well as made it easier on the few trans students who have come after. Why because i was willing to work with the school not against them
I apologize for insulting you by thinking you were trans.
You however scold me for assuming things. However, you have on multiple occasions assumed that im ok with certain things without knowing actually without caring what my views are. You have assumed that i have no experience with this sort of thing. However I have been through this. And I will tell you one thing I've experienced. If you are looking for trouble you will always find it. If you are willing to work and play well with others you do well.
I guess its ok for you to make assumptions just not me.
Now I am guessing that you have seen little to nothing of the world. Your town is not the entire country. Religious people have been known to not only deny life saving procedures and medications on the grounds of "religious belief" but also kill for that same belief many times throughout history, and even recently. The simple fact that religion is a delusion opens the gateway to such anti-social behaviors, and you think this should all be legal and acceptable.

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#14 Mar 5, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>Now I am guessing that you have seen little to nothing of the world. Your town is not the entire country. Religious people have been known to not only deny life saving procedures and medications on the grounds of "religious belief" but also kill for that same belief many times throughout history, and even recently. The simple fact that religion is a delusion opens the gateway to such anti-social behaviors, and you think this should all be legal and acceptable.
So you think the constitution should be ignored and religion outlawed then? And for the record I've lived in some very conservative places. But I have found if you don't force your beliefs on others they tend to realize their beliefs about you are incorrect. If there is another qualified person willing to do the needed procedure I see no reason to force a person who is against it in performing it. The person who is willing to do it will probably do a better job because their not upset over being forced to do something.

Non religious people have been known to kill people. Transexuals have been known to kill. There are people who have been known to kill in every section of society. So why punish law abiding citizens for something some one else has done?

I know you don't care about my opinion unless it mirrors yours. But seriously I have to wonder about people who do what they condemn others for doing. If we condemn all religious people for a minority who are criminals then should we punish all transsexuals because some are prostitutes? Before you say this is different it is not.

“Don't steal my happy”

Since: Aug 12

Shelbyville, Ky.

#15 Mar 5, 2013
I don't intend to offend anyone, and would hope not to be rebuked harshly, but this is my view of the situation.
First, the institution in question is a university, meaning it is privately owned and therefore they reserve the right to admit, or expel whoever they want for whatever reason. Does that mean they're right, or their decision was moral or just? Maybe not, but the point is they have that right, and they exercised it. A fact which is no secret, even to the student, nor is the fact that religious groups, or religiously backed institutions generally have a certain amount of intolerance for such issues. Once again, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that they have that right. And when you factor in the extra publicity on MTV, I'm sure that forced the university's hand to act.
Secondly, religion is nothing more than man made rules that follow certain spiritual beliefs. And, in my opinion (opinion only), I don't believe a person should be condemned for their spiritual, or religious beliefs, nor do I believe one should be condemned for their lack of them either.
Now, on a personal note (for a better explanation of my view, which I also would very much like not to be rebuked harshly for) I have a personal experience, or choice, as it were, that relates to this. A couple of facts, that I have put in multiple post prior, are that I'm a devout Christian, and a proud Transsexual woman. That being said, there is a local Baptist church that I'm still, technically, a member of, but have not attended since coming out publically as Trans. I had a few long discussions with my pastor there shortly after coming out, and although he did subtly suggest he did not agree with my being trans, he never openly or harshly rebuked me for it either, nor did we discuss my future attendance. I really love that church, the others who attend, and most especially, the pastor. Unfortunately, I'm quite sure that most, if not all, of the other members haven't had much experience, if any, with anyone who is trans. I'm sure that at least some of them would be fine with it, but I also know that others would not. Regardless, they have a really good thing going there, and I have a deep respect for that, and I knew that me trying to continue to attend while coming out as trans, and then progressing with my transition, would only serve as a distraction to the rest of the members, even if they were accepting, and that would be terribly selfish on my part. Not to mention, my kids really like it there, and I knew it would also possibly be detrimental to their attendance as well. At least now my ex-wife can still take them without the distraction or possible stress. So with all of these things in mind, I respectfully, and quietly discontinued my attendance there.
One of the girls from my support group has told me about the Baptist church she attends, which is a bit of a further drive for me, but that is very open and accepting of all peoples, and I am very much looking forward to visiting for the first time.
One more time, these are just my personal views of the situation, and opinions therein.
Thanks, Alysha

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