Homophobia in the Trans-kingdom

Homophobia in the Trans-kingdom

Posted in the Transgender Forum

Since: Oct 08

Portland, OR

#1 Nov 21, 2008
I just finished reading one of several papers I was steered toward by a friend. Some by Dreger, some by Bailey, and some by Lawrwence.

There seems to be a universal agreement on assimilationism as being the only "normal" path in life amongst the three of them. And I can't shake a deep-rooted feeling that there is more than a smidgeon of homophobia included in their little cabal.

Ironically, by breaking down the trans-community into homosexual and non-homosexual, they then go one to infer that only homosexual TS are "normal," and that any people that don't or cannot feel comfortable assimilating into traditional patterns of female behavior are shall we say, less than perfect. I believe autogynephilic is the term.

If anything they seem to mirror the practices seen in the mddle east and other areas of the world, where trassexualism is seen as a cure for homosexuality.

It seems that none of the three of them have any exposure to, or experience with the lesbian world, or even to the feminist world.

Any idea as to the political leanings, or religious followings of these individuals? I was not really aware of them until now, per se, but I see them as potentially a great threat to the homosexual community at large.

Anybody else want to weigh in on this?

Since: Nov 08

Philadelphia, PA

#2 Nov 25, 2008
I am a little confused as far as what you are implying here. I do know about autogynaphillia, and do believe that it is a load of crock. I have even debated Dr. Bailey on the subject through an exchange of about four e-mails, and then he terminated correspondence, and refered me to his book.

Personally I feel that anyone who tries to define a person based on their own understanding of sexuality does themselves and others harm as far as gaining a true understanding of human sexuality. The topic in and of itself is so diveres that it is impossible to put a human being into a box.

Likewise I too have known of various cultures around the world who have not accepted the notion of what some stealth women define as true transexuals. Such open transexuals outside America, could be the Hijras for example of India and Pakistan.

www.youtube.com/watch...
Lillith19

Portland, OR

#3 Nov 26, 2008
Well, it seems to me that the three of them I mentioned have a theory that transsexuals or transgender people, I guess fall into one of two categories. Gay men that want to be women, and str men that want to be women, but are crazy.
The gay men are referred to as homosexual transsexuals, and the others are autogynephilic/ non-homosexual (heterosexual) transsexuals.
This concerns me, because it is the practice in many foreign countries, especially the middle east, to "encourage" real homosexuals to assimilate into the general population by switching their gender role. I'm not talking about actual transgender folk here, I'm talking about homo's like me that transition to survive.
And even worse from my POV, is the pressure they put on all transgender people to assimilate into a stealth role, and heap scorn on those that do not. They don't seem to acknowledge that women and men come in all sizes and shapes, not just one ideal size range, or look for that matter.
Their views are extremely phallocentric, and definitely Eurocentric IMO.
Case in ppoint was the gal on Tyra's show I watched yesterday. She was cute as hell, but she didn't have the classic European look. Whereas Bailey's team seems to have a certain look that all women are supposed to fit into, or they need to go and have surgery to comply. To me, this is a form of fetishism.
Not all women are tiny skinny little waifs, with perfect smiles and hair. But they would have you believe it to be so, from what I read of their commentary. This attitude is very anti-feminist in my view.
I see these people as a danger to the greater queer community. They feel they have the right to set some standard of appearance and behavior in order to be accepted by them. And they definitely marginalize transgender people that don't conform to a heterosexual dynamic. That's messed up.
This attempt to create set definitions and boundries is cloaked in science, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the real underlying agenda is an attempt to keep the status quo, and suppress diversity.

Since: Nov 08

Philadelphia, PA

#4 Nov 27, 2008
Lillith19 wrote:
Well, it seems to me that the three of them I mentioned have a theory that transsexuals or transgender people, I guess fall into one of two categories. Gay men that want to be women, and str men that want to be women, but are crazy.
The gay men are referred to as homosexual transsexuals, and the others are autogynephilic/ non-homosexual (heterosexual) transsexuals.
This concerns me, because it is the practice in many foreign countries, especially the middle east, to "encourage" real homosexuals to assimilate into the general population by switching their gender role. I'm not talking about actual transgender folk here, I'm talking about homo's like me that transition to survive.
And even worse from my POV, is the pressure they put on all transgender people to assimilate into a stealth role, and heap scorn on those that do not. They don't seem to acknowledge that women and men come in all sizes and shapes, not just one ideal size range, or look for that matter.
Their views are extremely phallocentric, and definitely Eurocentric IMO.
Case in ppoint was the gal on Tyra's show I watched yesterday. She was cute as hell, but she didn't have the classic European look. Whereas Bailey's team seems to have a certain look that all women are supposed to fit into, or they need to go and have surgery to comply. To me, this is a form of fetishism.
Not all women are tiny skinny little waifs, with perfect smiles and hair. But they would have you believe it to be so, from what I read of their commentary. This attitude is very anti-feminist in my view.
I see these people as a danger to the greater queer community. They feel they have the right to set some standard of appearance and behavior in order to be accepted by them. And they definitely marginalize transgender people that don't conform to a heterosexual dynamic. That's messed up.
This attempt to create set definitions and boundries is cloaked in science, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the real underlying agenda is an attempt to keep the status quo, and suppress diversity.
I totaly agree with you. Bailey is a Quack!!!

Since: Nov 08

Philadelphia, PA

#5 Nov 27, 2008
The Transsexual Story
I have noticed that when transsexuals get together, they talk about the things any other group of women talk about. They rarely talk about their lives as a transsexual because the life of any one transsexual is the same as any other. There is a saying in the TS community:“Every transsexual has led the exact same life... just change the names, the dates, and the places, and they are interchangeable.” So when two or more TS’s gather together, they talk about movies, dating, the weather, and planned vacations. When CD’s and TV’s get together, they talk about clothes and high heels, dressing up and going out, and the thrill of being a woman. My point to all this? Listen... all TS’s have led the exact same life, only the minor details change. Is it yours?

In the beginning, it is all the same... somewhere between ages 4 and 6, a TS feels different, that they are a girl. At some time shortly after, they discover they were born a boy... and that’s when the real trouble starts. What to do? Well, most immediately start dressing, others wait until they are in their teen years, and here is where the same TS story differs in minor details.

There are basically two types of TS’s, those that begin the transition between 16 and 20 or so, and those that begin their transition very late in life, around 38-45. Let’s talk about the least common first, the early transitioners.

These are quite rare. And they are rare not because they are rare in life, almost all TS’s would transition at age 16 if given the chance, but as we will see later, very few are given the chance. Parents play a huge role in this. Some are pretty intelligent and recognize a problem; they seek out psychiatrists and doctors for their child and try to right a wrong they have come to accept. They place their 15 or 16 year old boy on hormones and pay for the professional care that will see them through the change. And with a young body, one that has not matured, once on hormones, the changes are immediate and drastic. A young man on hormones quite literally turns into a woman, they are so much more effective on a young body, one that has not fully developed yet. Breasts grow large, female shape in the hips and thighs and rear develop, and a thick head of hair blossoms. The voice changes even more, everything gels, and by age 22 or 24, they are 100% passable, blending into society and never heard from again. They go into what is referred to in the TS community "stealth mode". The rest of us are not so lucky.

Since: Nov 08

Philadelphia, PA

#6 Nov 27, 2008
These are the rare TS’s, you can see many of these young ladies from time to time before they go stealth. They are the very young, vibrant, loud and fun loving girls bouncing around out there, fully enjoying the ignorance of youth in a near perfect body with most of their problems solved! They can find work and friends, are accepted and pass, do drag shows and get dates, and sooner or later get married and just plain disappear. A wonderful life story, but very, very rare.

The typical TS story goes like this... a child grows up thinking she will be a woman when she gets older, so somewhere between 4 and 6, they start dressing like it. Their parents discourage it, chase them around and yell at them, threaten them and beat them, call them names and say things like, "something’s wrong with you!", and "do that again and I will beat the shit out of you!". They are told that they will end up in hell, that nobody will accept them, and that they are in fact boys. And society helps… they get beaten up at school, called “queer” and “faggot”, and are continually ridiculed. So, they immediately start to hide who they really are.

The secret crossdressing begins, usually about age six. Maybe with panties under the jeans, and literally in closets, basements, and attics. Anywhere where Mom and Dad won’t see. Beatings are common, yelling is normal, but an overwhelming feeling that the child is "not right" is prevalent. So, the child learns to hide it. And to please her parents, she becomes a "man" and this sets a dangerous and wasteful life-long pursuit. The young feminine boy learns to hide his real self and project and almost unreal, macho persona to the world. A typical TS spends her teen years, her young adult years, and eventually goes into middle age doing typically macho things... joining the military, jumping out of airplanes, getting into fights, working in construction, driving trucks, getting married and having children... all to hide who she really is. A TS spends most of her life doing typically male things, overcompensating to hide her true, female self. And eventually, it all falls apart.

The psychological community which deals with the transgendered has a set of guidelines they use... after generations and generations of transgendered folk were studied and analyzed, they came up with this age formula... the typical transsexual begins the transition from male to female between ages 38 and 40, add approximately 2.5 years for every child she has.

Why does this formula work, and why is it so accurate? Listen closely young ones... many things happen to you as you approach age 40. One of the biggest is that your body seriously begins to decrease its output of testosterone. This is serious business, hon, without testosterone, you no longer can do all those things that overcompensated for your female side... sports decline, sexual appetite for women declines, you stop working out, you stop feeling like a man, and you stop feeling that you should continue to act like a man. And your feminine side explodes in the vacuum left behind. You dress more often, you take more chances, you buy more clothes, you see more men... you become more of a woman, physically, mentally, spiritually, and sexually. The stop-gap measure you have been hiding behind for so many years simply disappears... you are in trouble. But there is more.

Around age 40 or so, people in your life start having heart attacks, are diagnosed with cancer and other diseases, and begin to die. This gives you a firm sense of your own mortality and you begin to reorganize your priorities... you realize that life is short. And your crossdressing and transgendered behavior increases in amount, quality, and chance taking. Maybe you ever get caught about now. Then, enter the children thing.

Since: Nov 08

Philadelphia, PA

#7 Nov 27, 2008
Transsexuals get married and have children at a young age, almost all do, in an effort to hide who they really are. They fill the traditional role of the male of the species... they become husbands and fathers. But around age 40 or so, your children begin to near maturity. We marry young and have children young... so say you marry about age 18-20 or so, have children, and they grow up and either leave at age 18 or stick around a few years for college and leave at age 20 or so. Do the math... marry at 20, kid leaves at 20, you are 40... ha! Now, add another 2.5 years for every other child you had and the formula begins to take shape... you transition after your biological needs and purpose have been met.

You hid who you were your entire life, you overcompensated to hide who you were, you fucked up and got married and had children. You binged and purged, bought and threw out your clothes, hid them in boxes and bags in the closet, attic, and office. You had secret meetings in hotels and the back of adult video theaters and your own bedroom where your wife sleeps... but now, now you can see the light at the end of the tunnel... your testosterone level approaches zero, you realize that life is short, and your children are almost grown... your bell is about to go off. You are about to start your transition.

Since: Nov 08

Philadelphia, PA

#8 Nov 27, 2008
So in essence Bailey's team are idiots, they do not know what they are talking about.

Did you know that the women taken in the study, did not know that they were being used in a study. That is broken rule # one. And then he slept with some of the women in the stufy. Broken rule # two. And then he did not have transexuals, he was interviewing transvestites. Broken rule # three.

Like I said before, I have debated Bailey's team from North Western University, they are overated, and looking to sell books.

Be yourself, and represent diversity. Sexuality is too complex to try and put it into a nice neat pretty little box.

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